Why do Protestants become Catholic?

[rayne89]

believers:

We all know that just reading the scripture doesn’t save you. I’m referring to the message of salvation.

Sometimes I honestly think we must speak a different language.The message of salvation is in scripture and we hear the scriptures as every Mass. That’s what I meant. If you can’t find the message of salvation in scripture then you’ve got some pretty big problems

believers:

Do you honestly believe that you’re saved because you belong to the Catholic church? I probably would have said… you must believe I’m saved because I believe that Jesus paid for our sins in full with His blood on the cross. You must also know that I believe and obey Him every day of my life as a faithful Christian. Maybe that’s what your manager was referring to.

My manager went to Bob Jones University (the guy that said the Pope was the anti-Christ). So his ideas about the Catholic Church when we first began our conversations many years back had a very distorted view of the church.
I meant because of what I was taught in the Catholic church or despite of it, not just because I am a member of the Church.

As far as what I wasn’t taught in the 70’s and 80’s, I wasn’t taught the importance of the sacrament of confession, I wasn’t taught about the real presence in the Eucharist, I wasn’t taught the teachings of the church as far as birth control and such. I knew Jesus died for my sins and without that there was no salvation, I knew I had to follow Christ and what he commanded. But it wasn’t until I reached adulthood and was challanged by my (Pentecostal) MIL that I really studied the church and what the teachings were and why.

You still haven’t told me what announcement exactly are you looking for.

 

[sadie2723]

rayne89:

Sometimes I honestly think we must speak a different language."The message of salvation is in scripture and we hear the scriptures as every Mass. That’s what I meant. If you can’t find the message of salvation in scripture then you’ve got some pretty big problems

My manager went to Bob Jones University (the guy that said the Pope was the anti-Christ). So his ideas about the Catholic Church when we first began our conversations many years back had a very distorted view of the church.
I meant because of what I was taught in the Catholic church or despite of it, not just because I am a member of the Church.

As far as what I wasn’t taught in the 70’s and 80’s, I wasn’t taught the importance of the sacrament of confession, I wasn’t taught about the real presence in the Eucharist, I wasn’t taught the teachings of the church as far as birth control and such. I knew Jesus died for my sins and without that there was no salvation, I knew I had to follow Christ and what he commanded. But it wasn’t until I reached adulthood and was challanged by my (Pentecostal) MIL that I really studied the church and what the teachings were and why.

You still haven’t told me what announcement exactly are you looking for.

Ok, for the record, your teacher was sad, but I get the impression that you know that.

Since you brought up Bob Jones and the anti-Christ, I thought that I would address that one. I wonder if they were just referring to JP2 or all Popes. I always read the Bible to say that there was only one anti-Christ. How many Popes have we had now? Come on people, they can’t all be the anti-Christ.

As a student of Communciation working on a PhD, I have a pretty strong undertstnding of rhetorical arguement. So, I thought that I would make a comment here. It is commonly observed that when all evidence in an arguement has been disproven, the person giving the erronious arguement will often resort to…wait for it…name calling. So, I am thinking that the reason that people look at the Pope and call him the anti-Christ is because they already know that all of their arguements have fallen apart. Bottom line is that you can’t beat the Catholic Church if you want to engage in a rational arguement based on fact, so people have to resort to propaganda and name calling to get the job done. It is sad.

Once and for all, if you are looking for truth you will find it in the teachings of the Catholic Church. People can deny this all they like, but to do so only takes one furthe away from truth. I tried to find another way for years, and there is not one. If you want truth, based in scripture, look to Rome. It is the only place you will find it 100% of the time.

 

[valient_Lucy]

believers:

This line doesn’t mention the fact that Jesus died on the cross in payment of all our sins. It also fails to mention that we MUST believe in Him and obey which is essential to our salvation.

How about the Memorial Acclimation? After the priest consecrates the Eucharist, he asks the congregation to declare “the mystery of faith.” Two of the options are
“Dying you destroyed our death,
Rising you restored our life,
Lord Jesus come in glory.”

And
Lord, by your cross and resurrection, You have set us free. You are the Savior of the world.

believers:

God had mercy on us by sending Jesus. Jesus died on the cross because of all our sins. Now, as long as we believe and obey Jesus we will be brought into everlasting life.

As for “once saved always saved”, Catholics are not exempt from this belief. I know plenty who believe their saved just because they were baptized as a baby. Maybe that also contributes to the lukewarm attitude?

What contributes to the attitude is a wrong understanding of baptism and grace. Catholics have never taught that just because a person is baptized as a baby that they will never sin again and go to heaven.
IMO, the “once saved, always saved” attitude comes from a total neglect of the Sacrament of Reconciliation among Catholics. Or perhaps, our culture’s post-modern take on sin (ie there is no sin or truth). Probably some combination of the two. I think that Catholics, IMO, need to learn more about their faith, and to really love their faith. I know so many poorly (I mean very poorly) catechized Catholics. It’s time to buck the trend.
Message to Catholics on the board: Don’t fool yourself and think that you don’t sin, or don’t need the Sacrament of Reconciliation.
Blessed Mother Teresa and Pope John Paul, from what I understand, recieved the Sacrament once a week. If they could find stuff to confess, I’m sure we all can.
Also, if you find there is a teaching about the Catholic faith that you don’t understand, or confuses you, or you simply are not familiar with, look it up in the Catechism, or ask someone here. But don’t simply ignore it. It’s time for Catholics to become much more interested in their own religous education, and to be proactive. I think that’s where a lot of the problems come from.

 

[valient_Lucy]

sadie2723:

Ok, for the record, your teacher was sad, but I get the impression that you know that.

Since you brought up Bob Jones and the anti-Christ, I thought that I would address that one. I wonder if they were just referring to JP2 or all Popes. I always read the Bible to say that there was only one anti-Christ. How many Popes have we had now? Come on people, they can’t all be the anti-Christ.

Absolutly!

 

[stella95]

Alfie:

More and more Protestants are becoming Catholic because they are more interested in unity than truth…The world is heading into a one world religion. That means it will be centered in Rome. Someday Rome will be hunting down all of the “true” Christians in the world and killing them. Wise up before it is to late and on this note it has been nice knowing you as I am sure to be banned for this post.

This shows a distinct fear of Catholicism that I find fascinating. I suppose I’d be upset too if an entity I despise had survived for 1967 years and was still going strong. Ouch.

 

[believers]

For Believers:

Here is the Nicene Creed professed at Mass. I think that it has what you are looking for.

We believe in God, the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
and all that is seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, one in Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he was born of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered, died, and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in fulfilment of the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead,
and His kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son
he is worshipped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come.

Amen

I was wondering when someone was going to post the Nicene Creed. I happen to know this one by heart. It’s all about believing in God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. Now, where in the prayer does it tell you that you must obey Jesus? It’s not good enough to just believe. Lukewarm refers to those believers who do not obey. Everyone needs to know that they must obey. That means to live the life of a faithful true believer in Christ every day and not just on Sunday. The Nicene Creed does not convey the true message of salvation.

 

[valient_Lucy]

djrakowski:

Excellent answers, I think!

It bears asking, though, what is meant by perseverence for someone who thinks it was all settled at the moment of ‘receiving Christ as my personal Lord and Savior?’ If salvation can’t be lost no matter what, then what good is it to persevere? If a ‘saved’ person doesn’t persevere, then was he not really saved?

I can say from personal experience that OSAS led my wife to frequently question whether she was truly saved. As evangelicals, we were told, week after week, that a ‘saved’ person wouldn’t continue in sin, and yet we still found ourselves trying to beat the same old habits. So, one possible conclusion is that we were never saved at all, and were only fooling ourselves.

I had that same experience as well. Not really any sense of security, if you constantly worried if you were really saved, or just fooling yourself. Plus, if you were to repent, how could you be sure if you were really saved? Maybe you’re just fooling yourself again.

 

[djrakowski]

believers:

I was wondering when someone was going to post the Nicene Creed. I happen to know this one by heart. It’s all about believing in God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. Now, where in the prayer does it tell you that you must obey Jesus? It’s not good enough to just believe. Lukewarm refers to those believers who do not obey. Everyone needs to know that they must obey. That means to live the life of a faithful true believer in Christ every day and not just on Sunday. The Nicene Creed does not convey the true message of salvation.

Seriously, how could you miss salvation in the Nicene Creed? The word ‘salvation’ is even there!

For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he was born of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;

I say the following at the risk of being pedantic:

1. Why did Jesus come down from heaven? For us and our salvation
2. Why was he crucified? For our sake!

 

[stella95]

I see that my ignorance strikes again. I was under the impression that most Christians, whatever they felt to be their “sect” at the moment, believed in the Nicene Creed. I know the Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t, but they’re not Christians.

So Evangelicals don’t believe in the Creed?

 

[djrakowski]

valient Lucy:

I had that same experience as well. Not really any sense of security, if you constantly worried if you were really saved, or just fooling yourself. Plus, if you were to repent, how could you be sure if you were really saved? Maybe you’re just fooling yourself again.

:yup: You summed it up well, Lucy. Exactly our feelings as we went through this very self-destructive cycle of asking Jesus into our hearts, sinning, doubting I was ever saved to begin with, and starting all over again. There was nothing to give me the reassurance that, after having sinned, I had really reconciled myself to God.

It makes a mockery out of the process of sanctification, essentially stating that one is made as holy as he’ll ever be at the moment of committment to Jesus. Catholic theology is just more balanced and reasonable on this point, acknowledging that God actually begins to make us holy if we allow His grace to work in and through us, and commit ourselves, as Jesus said, to show our love for Him by doing what He says - including the sacraments rejected by evangelical Protestants (most importantly, Eucharist and reconciliation).

 

[believers]

djrakowski:

Seriously, how could you miss salvation in the Nicene Creed? The word ‘salvation’ is even there!

Just because the word salvation appears in the prayer doesn’t mean that the prayer tells you that you must obey Him.

djrakowski:

I say the following at the risk of being pedantic:

1. Why did Jesus come down from heaven? For us and our salvation
2. Why was he crucified? For our sake!

Pendantic? hardly. The Nicene Creed is vague at best in regards to the message of salvation. It basically says that I believe in God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. However, the equally important and most difficult to do is obey. Why don’t we start a topic called “are you dangerously lukewarm?” or “traits of faithful Christian”. Something that would be beneficial to those who may need to hear it.

 

[jim1130]

believers:

I was wondering when someone was going to post the Nicene Creed. I happen to know this one by heart. It’s all about believing in God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. Now, where in the prayer does it tell you that you must obey Jesus? It’s not good enough to just believe. Lukewarm refers to those believers who do not obey. Everyone needs to know that they must obey. That means to live the life of a faithful true believer in Christ every day and not just on Sunday. The Nicene Creed does not convey the true message of salvation.

Peace.

So far…

Penitential rite dismissed.

Nicene Creed dismissed.

Oh, well, I suppose if we mention that the Gospel is read at every Mass (and Mass is said seven days a week) and the message of love, worship, obey, etc. God is preached will that count?

 

[LRThunder]

stella95:

I see that my ignorance strikes again. I was under the impression that most Christians, whatever they felt to be their “sect” at the moment, believed in the Nicene Creed. I know the Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t, but they’re not Christians.

So Evangelicals don’t believe in the Creed?

I assume the PCUSA does, but the PCA definitely believes in both the Nicene and Apostles’ Creeds.

 

[jim1130]

believers:

Just because the word salvation appears in the prayer doesn’t mean that the prayer tells you that you must obey Him.

Pendantic? hardly. The Nicene Creed is vague at best in regards to the message of salvation. It basically says that I believe in God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. However, the equally important and most difficult to do is obey. Why don’t we start a topic called “are you dangerously lukewarm?” or “traits of faithful Christian”. Something that would be beneficial to those who may need to hear it.

Peace.

Personally, my interpretation of what you are getting at is this: “Why the Gospel of Catholics is a false Gospel.” Would this interpretation be accurate? That seems to be the gist of your posts.

Peace be with you.

 

[Thirst4Him]

I’m not Catholic…Yet??

I fell in love with the Catholic church last year after 60 years of growing up in conservative Protestantism. My journey to the liturgy and then Catholic theology led began, unbeknownst to me, many years ago, when I adopted a verse from the 42nd (Protestant version) Psalm. I memorized in in King James and can’t seem to shake it. It says, “As the hart pants after the water brooks, so pants my soul after thee O God.”
Nearly 8 years ago I was hungering for a deeper walk with God. I stumbled across Phyllis Tickle’s set of books called Praying the Hours. I became hooked. I fell in love with liturgical praying. Then a little over a year ago the Presbyterian church I attend studied the 40 Days of Purpose by Rick Warren. My hunger grew. One day after my second journey through his book I looked up some of the references he had and discovered a book by Gary Thomas called Sacred Pathways. It is a book about the traditions of the early church fathers. I began to learn about how God used the great saints of the early church. I happened to watch EWTN one night when Scott Hahn was speaking. I bought his book and my journey really began in earnest. I can’t get enough. I followed that up with Karl Keating’s great work on Catholicism and Fundamentalism. I snuck into a Catholic bookstore and found more literature. I bought the Magnificat and Rosary beads and have been daily praying with them ever since. The proprietor talked me into going to Ash Wednesday Mass. This timid Protestent went. Boy, did I feel out of place! I never endured so much confusion, noise and lousy singing and preaching. The homily sucked. At least to me it sucked. I actually allowed myself to be dusted, excuse me, ashed, and went away strangely moved.
Since then I’ve listened to as much of EWTN as possible, all the Catholic Answers broadcasts I can and divoured books galor.
Am I begoming a Catholic? I don’t know yet. There is much to learn and overcome. I’m not convinced yet. But I admit, I thirst.
I apologize for the lengthy testimony, but needed to share it.
I’m not hung up on the most popular issues most Protestants face. I’m more concerned is how does Catholicism affect my daily behavior toward God and my neighbor. One of my biggest criticisms at the moment is sometimes I get the feeling Catholics are more concerned about preserving the structure and polity of the church than ministering Christ to the general public. Also, driving through all the differing opinions of Catholic theology in the church is confusing. Sometimes I wonder if there aren’t as many schisms in the Catholic community as there is in the Protestant community. So that is where I am. I love you all and am head over heals in love with my Saviour. He is my all in all and I can’t get enough of Him.
Blessings to you.
Thirsty

 

[sadie2723]

stella95:

I see that my ignorance strikes again. I was under the impression that most Christians, whatever they felt to be their “sect” at the moment, believed in the Nicene Creed. I know the Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t, but they’re not Christians.

So Evangelicals don’t believe in the Creed?

I doubt that they buy into that One Holy Catholic Church part. I wonder what their creed would be like?

 

[Ted_CharlotteNC]

stella95:

I see that my ignorance strikes again. I was under the impression that most Christians, whatever they felt to be their “sect” at the moment, believed in the Nicene Creed. I know the Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t, but they’re not Christians.

So Evangelicals don’t believe in the Creed?

Having been raised Southern Baptist in Austell GA (home to JB Stoner, the infamous church bomber) in the 60s I was exposed to some pretty anti-Catholic hatred.

I heard from the pulpit on occassion that the Roman Catholic Church was Satanic and “of the devil”.

Responsive readings and reciting creeds were attributed to pagan babbling (really).

And it just occurred to me part of the blatant hate might be attributed to “Yankee hatred”. Northerners were thought of as Catholic and some Southerners still fight the Civil War. All you have to do is go through SC, NC GA AL and MS to see the Dixie flag and bumper stickers talking about hating Yankees.

Has that ever occurred to anyone else?

Let me say that since my exposure to the Roman Catholic Church, I can go to Mass and actually feel like I have been in the presence of the Lord Jesus. I can spend time with the Blessed Mother, tell her all my problems and know that she cares and loves me like her own son. I can talk to the saints, rely on 2000 years of history and have a real Liturgy. Praise God!!!

 

[sadie2723]

jim1130:

Peace.

So far…

Penitential rite dismissed.

Nicene Creed dismissed.

Oh, well, I suppose if we mention that the Gospel is read at every Mass (and Mass is said seven days a week) and the message of love, worship, obey, etc. God is preached will that count?

Nope. Because, and I can’t believe that you missed this, the Catholic Church NEVER talks about Salvation. Never. We all just wander in there ever week and we have no idea what we are doing. What a load!

 

[valient_Lucy]

believers:

I was wondering when someone was going to post the Nicene Creed. I happen to know this one by heart. It’s all about believing in God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. Now, where in the prayer does it tell you that you must obey Jesus? It’s not good enough to just believe. Lukewarm refers to those believers who do not obey. Everyone needs to know that they must obey. That means to live the life of a faithful true believer in Christ every day and not just on Sunday. The Nicene Creed does not convey the true message of salvation.

The reality is, the Nicene Creed was never intended to convey the message of salvation. The Nicene creed was written in 325, I believe, in response to the Arian heresy. The Arian heresy held that Christ was not really divine. They held that he was close to divine (similar substance) but not divine. The Nicene Council wrote this creed as a weapon against this heresy. The key phrase in the Nicene Creed is “one in being with the Father,” or “of one substance.” This repudiated the position of the Arian Christians, and all Christians were required to believe and recite this creed before recieving communion. It was a way of protecting the Church from this heresy, and attacking the heresy itself.

 

[Mickey]

believers:

Everyone needs to know that they must obey.

Now you’re catching on! Obedience is key!