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Remnant1
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So, the church teaches what will eventually be written down. Right? Isn’t that the same as the bible only?
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KendraDZ1902
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Not everything was written down. 2 Thessalonians 2:15. And 1 Timothy 3:15 states that The Church is the pillar and the foundation of the truth. Not that the Bible is the pillar and foundation of the truth
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Remnant1
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2Thess.2
15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
This pretty much says that the things taudht by word are the same as the things written down. In fact Paul writes in 1Cor.2:For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. So the traditions that are taught by word and mouth in 2Thess.2:15 are one and the same thing and that is Jesus Christ and Him crucified, which would be what the bible teaches.
God is love
Remnant1
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jmcrae
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jmcrae
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Then why are they in the Bible at all?
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KendraDZ1902
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by word of mouth OR epistle. Or shows a difference. It doesn’t say, " the oral traditions and our letters are the same."
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Remnant1
Guest
2Thess.2:15Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle. Certainly implies that they are the same, but 1Cor2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. Confirms it.
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ffg
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Sidenote one the confession piece of the discussion.
Starting a long time ago, when I go to confession, I start with ‘Forgive me Lord for I have sinned’. Purposefully, rather than ‘Forgive me Father for I have sinned.’
I do this for a few reasons:
Starting a long time ago, when I go to confession, I start with ‘Forgive me Lord for I have sinned’. Purposefully, rather than ‘Forgive me Father for I have sinned.’
I do this for a few reasons:
- As the priest is there to deliver grace from God, we know the confession is being heard by God and the absolution delivered by God through the priest.
- Has a waking effect on a priest that has been hearing confessions for a while, they are human.
- Keeps my mind right in who I’m offending by my sinning.
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rfournier103
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Bolded and underlined are mine.
You don’t THINK it’s required??? How do YOU know what is required? Did God tell YOU? Do YOU know better than two thousand years of Catholic Christian theology? We know because of the Devine Teaching Office of the Church. The very Church founded by Jesus Christ.
Let me share this with you…
1 Tim. 3:15 ~ But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.
Bold and underline are mine.
Acts 8:26-31 ~ Then the angel of the Lord spoke to Philip, “Get up and head south on the road that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza, the desert route.” So he got up and set out. Now there was an Ethiopian eunuch, a court official of the Candace, 8 that is, the queen of the Ethiopians, in charge of her entire treasury, who had come to Jerusalem to worship, and was returning home. Seated in his chariot, he was reading the prophet Isaiah. The Spirit said to Philip, “Go and join up with that chariot.” Philip ran up and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet and said, “Do you understand what you are reading?” He replied, “How can I, unless someone instructs me?” So he invited Philip to get in and sit with him.
Bold and underline are mine.
2 Peter 1:20-21 ~ Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God.
Bold and underline are mine.
- The CHURCH is the pillar and ground of truth. The Catholic Church has been teaching, protecting, passing on, and interpeting the Word of God long before any other Christian community ever existed. The Church may not alter the Word in ANY WAY. The Scriptures are a sacred trust that has been passed down through the ages.
- Even a literate Ethiopian needed Philip to interpet Scripture for him. Just because you can read, doesn’t mean you understand what you’re reading… Some guy who buys an old building and declares himself the pastor of his own non-denominational Bible “church” has as much authority to interpet Sacred Scripture as a Catholic Priest who studied for at least eight years (4 college, 4 seminary) and has the authority of Apostolic Succession??? I think not.
- Are we ALL moved by the Holy Spirit when interpeting Scripture? Is gay “marriage” right AND wrong? What about woman preachers? Okay for some, and not for others? What about abortion? Some churches say it’s okay, others not so much? Is the Holy Spirit sending different messages to different churches?
Imagine what the United States would be like if we were ruled SOLELY by the Constitution, and without a court to interpet it? What kind of country would it be?
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KendraDZ1902
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Nope. That isn’t how The Church interprets it. It doesn’t imply that they are they same. It doesn’t say that they are the same.
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rfournier103
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From Miriam-Webster.com
Definition of APOSTLE:
1: one sent on a mission: as
a: one of an authoritative New Testament group sent out to preach the gospel and made up especially of Christ’s 12 original disciples and Paul
b: the first prominent Christian missionary to a region or group
2 a: a person who initiates a great moral reform or who first advocates an important belief or system
b: an ardent supporter : adherent
3: the highest ecclesiastical official in some church organizations
4: one of a Mormon administrative council of 12 men
Definition of APOSTLE:
1: one sent on a mission: as
a: one of an authoritative New Testament group sent out to preach the gospel and made up especially of Christ’s 12 original disciples and Paul
b: the first prominent Christian missionary to a region or group
2 a: a person who initiates a great moral reform or who first advocates an important belief or system
b: an ardent supporter : adherent
3: the highest ecclesiastical official in some church organizations
4: one of a Mormon administrative council of 12 men
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Remnant1
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1Cor.2:2 does.
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rfournier103
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For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
I don’t get what you’re trying to say, Rem…
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KendraDZ1902
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I disagree. I will listen to The Church which is the pillar and foundation of truth. The Church has been doing this much longer than you have.
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rfournier103
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Bold, italic, and underline are mine.
There is NO way this even implies that oral or written tradition have to be the same. Could you please clarify?
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rfournier103
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BAZINGA!!!
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Remnant1
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You disagree?
1Cor2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. Know would mean any way that Paul preached whether by word of mouth epistle or whatever. That certainly would include 2Thess.2:15Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
Whether you disagree or not it says what it says.
God is love
Remnant1
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rfournier103
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Not everything is written down, brother Rem.
John 21:24-25 24 ~ It is this disciple who testifies to these things and has written them, 14 and we know that his testimony is true. There are also many other things that Jesus did, but if these were to be described individually, I do not think the whole world would contain the books that would be written.
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KendraDZ1902
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I still disagree and I’m not sure what you are trying to say. Again, The Church has been saying the same thing for 2000 years. I will stick with them.
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