justasking, it seems rather arrogant of you to determine what is going on within the heart of someone who is at prayer by using definitions you have looked up in a book. It seems to me that one’s might have one’s hands full being in charge of one’s own prayer life and one’s own devotion to God, rather than judging and condemning the supposed acts of others without even talking to them.
I get it-it is you **personal **intereration that leads you to believe Catholics wothsip Mary! And since one can not argue with anothers **personal intperperation **(witness the thousands and thousands of different interpeations of Scripture Protestants have) there is no way we can dispute you. Correct?
The Bible was never intended to be parsed verse by verse as is common in evangelical practice. It is meant to be taken in it’s entirety. We know what the proper understanding of it by the teaching of the Church, handed down from the Apostles throught he succession of ordination. It is by this manner that we know the “brethren” of Jesus are not uterine brothers.
We all know who the “accuser of the brethren” is, and I submit that it is unwise for Luther, as well as yourself to be in league as such accusers. You have demonstrated on this thread that you don’t understand the teaching of the Apostles, and therefore, your accusations only make your ignorance clear to all, and align you with that accuser who has as his robbery as his goal. Why would any Christian wish to be such an accuser, I cannot imagine.
That seems to be the case of many Non-Catholics here they still make false misconceptions.
The Bible was never intended to be parsed verse by verse as is common in evangelical practice. It is meant to be taken in it’s entirety. We know what the proper understanding of it by the teaching of the Church, handed down from the Apostles throught he succession of ordination. It is by this manner that we know the “brethren” of Jesus are not uterine brothers.
We all know who the “accuser of the brethren” is, and I submit that it is unwise for Luther, as well as yourself to be in league as such accusers. You have demonstrated on this thread that you don’t understand the teaching of the Apostles, and therefore, your accusations only make your ignorance clear to all, and align you with that accuser who has as his robbery as his goal. Why would any Christian wish to be such an accuser, I cannot imagine.
Maybe so, there are many words used in our faith that are very ancient, and don’t have the same meanings when used in modern parlance. People venerate the medal winners at the Olympics, too, by decorating them, playing songs for them, and putting them up on podia. No one is worshipping them. If you don’t understand the difference, then you are just uneducated.
It is because the Protestant definition of ‘worship’ is:
The Bible was never intended to be parsed verse by verse as is common in evangelical practice. It is meant to be taken in it’s entirety. We know what the proper understanding of it by the teaching of the Church, handed down from the Apostles throught he succession of ordination. It is by this manner that we know the “brethren” of Jesus are not uterine brothers.
We all know who the “accuser of the brethren” is, and I submit that it is unwise for Luther, as well as yourself to be in league as such accusers. You have demonstrated on this thread that you don’t understand the teaching of the Apostles, and therefore, your accusations only make your ignorance clear to all, and align you with that accuser who has as his robbery as his goal. Why would any Christian wish to be such an accuser, I cannot imagine.
Maybe so, there are many words used in our faith that are very ancient, and don’t have the same meanings when used in modern parlance. People venerate the medal winners at the Olympics, too, by decorating them, playing songs for them, and putting them up on podia. No one is worshipping them. If you don’t understand the difference, then you are just uneducated.
Who is 'we" and why do ya’all need that?
This is true, and we have them because the Catholic Church preserved the manuscripts. Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ, and we are called to have His Word in our hearts.
Are you asserting, then, that God allowed error and sin to persist in the Church until Luther came along to correct it?
Wonder why Jesus created a Church, if it is not necessary?
I did not know He was in the habit of engaging in unecessary activities.Christ can certainly use even the mouth of a donkey to bring His word to people, so I can’t deny that. We also know that where sin abounds, grace abounds even more!
We hold up their lives as examples of heroic Christian virtue be immulated.
There’s that word again…our prayers…our requests for their prayers…are not for their benefit, but rather asking them to pray for us…we honor them, other than naming them as Saints, by having masses in their honor…generally on the anniversary of their death.
Didn’t Paul write something about immitating him as he did Christ? Doesn’t Paul, in 2nd Corinthians, talk about the virtues of the saints of old and early martyrs and refer to them as a “great crowd of witnesses?”
What is this based on? If a person doesn’t interpret the verses and words and contexts correctly you won’t have the correct understanding of the passages and the right doctrines. It is at this level where so many doctrines of the church fail because when you study the various used to support the doctrines you find in many cases the scriptures are not saying that at all.
Was there any ordination or witness to Peter handing the “keys” to the next pope before 62-64 AD?
That may be but you don’t find this in the texts of scripture itself. Words have meanings and it is the context that helps understand that. To say that Mary was an ever virgin goes against so much of what the scripture says about her offspring. Clearly she had other children that came from her.
i accuse no one but i have demonstrated that your church teaches false doctrines that mislead its people. I have yet to see any real support biblical support that Mary was without sin, assumned into heaven, queen of heaven etc. Don’t take my word for it. Study the scriptures. Look up everything in them on Mary and look at the contexts. You will not find any support for these doctrines. If Jesus and His apostles never taught these things then why do you believe them?We all know who the “accuser of the brethren” is, and I submit that it is unwise for Luther, as well as yourself to be in league as such accusers. You have demonstrated on this thread that you don’t understand the teaching of the Apostles, and therefore, your accusations only make your ignorance clear to all, and align you with that accuser who has as his robbery as his goal. Why would any Christian wish to be such an accuser, I cannot imagine.
Words have meanings and veneration does carry within it worship. That is not the only problem with this. Even the idea of communication between those who have died and those alive here is not taught in scripture. Again, study the scriptures on those passages used and you see that Christians are not praying to them.
What are you asking here?
Yes
Just because the church preserved them doesn’t mean they understand them.
i have yet to see this in these forummns that i’ve been in.
Yes. There is a lot of false teachings in the catholic church but the gospel itself has not been lost.
I didn’t say that. It is necessary.Wonder why Jesus created a Church, if it is not necessary?
True and Christ used the reformers to do so.
Let me encourage you to read this in context. It has nothing to do with her suppoesed assumption. Secondly, if this is Mary then this means other aspects of the marian doctrines are false.
No.
When you see someone kneeling, praying, singing praises to what comes to your mind?
No Christian should ever pray to Mary, the departed etc. Scripture teaches us that God alone is the one we are to pray to.
If you are reading a particular passage of scripture and you want to interpret it, where do you go to find the specific meaning of that passage? How would you apply what you write here toBishopite;2637398]We take scripture first and foremost in a “LITERAL” sense as the church has always taught from the early church to the present. And if you don’t know, the literal sense is how and what the author intent was toward those whom he wrote. But you don’t know how to read scripture because scripture doesn’t say how to read scripture; you read and interpret scripture in light of what has been “traditioned” down to you.
They studied them. There is nothing mystical or mysterious about that.
There has always been disagreements in the church. The same is true in the catholic church. Not every one there believes the same things exactly on everything the church teaches.
Do you believe everything your church has taught in all its documents and teachers to be true?
The teaching of Jesus Christ.
If a person doesn’t interpret the verses and words and contexts correctly you won’t have the correct understanding of the passages and the right doctrines:thumbsup:
This is absolutely true and the correct context of the NT is the Catholic Church. It was witten by, for, and about Catholics. That is why nothing in it contradicts Catholic teaching!
justasking4;2638739:
You are suffering the limitations of Sola Scriptura. It is the Church that produced the Scripture, not the other way around. the Bible reflects some of what the Church believes. Are beliefs are not as much based upon it as they are reflected in it.
Yes! You will find these witnesses as you begin to read the early church fathers.
Scripture reflects Catholic teaching, which is that Mary was ever virgin. If you think that scripture says otherwise, then you are misunderstanding the scripture.
What you have demonstrated is that you are ignorant of what the Church teaches, and that you are misled.
Because this is the teaching handed down to us by the Apostles, and we have as much faith in that teaching as we do the written teachings that are contained in the Bible. You have separated the scriptures from their source, so your understanding of them is only limited.
I suppose it is possible that someone can both venerate and worship the same target. I assure you that I do not venerate the olympians on their stands, even though I am very proud of them, and am glad someone gave them flowers.
It is understandible that you cannot see these teachings. Most of NT was written before the death of the saints. There are a couple recorded, such as Stephen, and James, but most of the Apostles’ death are not recorded. Does that mean they didn’t happen? Does that mean the early church did not ask them for their intercession?
That one made me smile. The Church wrote them, and she understands what she was trying to say.
I hope your ignorance is cleared up here on CAF.
Blessings upon your inquiry!
There are no Catholic doctrines are not supported by scripture. Protestants view scripture far differently than Catholics. They view it as a puzzle book that contains truth only if you dig far enough. And being shackled a Sola Scripture they never accomplish more than learning a pale shadow of the truth . Catholics already know the truth as has been taught to us by Church Jesus founded. Where you go to the Bible in a futile search for the truth we go to the Bible for greater understanding of the true
And those doctrines are? The church doesn’t teach doctrines that mislead. You mislead people by claiming understand a doctrine you not understand all. Again the utter arrogance of telling us we worship Mary based only upon your unfounded observations is mind-boggling
The problem is you depend solely upon yourself to determine what the meaning of those words are. We have seen what chaos and division this has caused with those who have separated themselves from the one true Church.
What an utterly inept Christ you worship. So inept he was incapable of getting his message across to his people for 1500 years. And then it turns out his message is one that was unheard of for the entire history of Christianity and were not supported by either tradition or scripture,. The idea’s you have stated here are not only insulting to Catholics but insulting to our Lord and Savior also
I had to address the last question: as being Catholic, all Catholics believe in their Church, and therefore in what She teaches: it’s in the creed. It is also a part of the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. That’s why there’s a catechism, homilies, …
:yup:Maria understands what I’m trying to say…
And sadly, we can see here on this thread that those like rr1213 are very few. There ARE those who misunderstand because of misunderstanding of definitions of words, and for those watching how we word things will be very helpful to them.
Why should they, we, I, quote? Can’t you look this up on your own? Deeply mysterious statement.And sadly, we can see here on this thread that those like rr1213 are very few. There ARE those who misunderstand because of misunderstanding of definitions of words, and for those watching how we word things will be very helpful to them.
But there also, as seen here on this thread, those that continue to choose to tell us what we believe without actually quoting any of those beliefs from the Catechism of the Catholic Church