Why do Protestants presume to know Catholic doctrine and dogmas when they don't really know it?

[MariaG]

Too many of these former Catholics let protestants tell them what the Church teaches. As a much young man I spent WAY too much time wondering why the church taught salvation by works…until I finally stopped listening to what my protestant friends TOLD me the Church taught…and actually reading the teachings of the Church.

Yes, when people found out I had been baptized as an infant in the Catholic Church, they constantly said things like, “Well Catholics worship Mary” or “Catholics don’t believe that you and I are saints, which is completely contrary to scritpure”. Although I think it was a little easier for me because my parents left the Catholic Church when I was 4 so I didn’t have ANY understanding of the the teachings of the Catholic Church. (I just remember loving all the beautiful hats and the little lace handkerchief I got to wear to church every Sunday )

I have to thank them though. Thanks to them, and the Holy Spirit within me stirring up unease in me at their lies, I actually bought a catechism of the Catholic Church and researched what Catholics really believe.

 

[estesbob]

And sadly, we can see here on this thread that those like rr1213 are very few. There ARE those who misunderstand because of misunderstanding of definitions of words, and for those watching how we word things will be very helpful to them.

But there also, as seen here on this thread, those that continue to choose to tell us what we believe without actually quoting any of those beliefs from the Catechism of the Catholic Church

Oh I have learned one thing in this thread. That is the that the Encarta dictionary is divinely inspired. When one tells you to go a dictionary to better understand your faith you know you have entered the realm of the bizarre.

 

[MariaG]

Why should they, we, I, quote? Can’t you look this up on your own? Deeply mysterious statement.

Deeply mysterious to say that when non-Catholics tell Catholics that we worship Mary they should at show us where this belief actually exists within the teaching of the Catholic Church?

And I repeatedly look things up and post them to show that Catholics in fact do not believe what the poster claims. But the point is I expect them to do the same. If people are going to tell Catholics what they believe, they should at least have the courtesy to quote official Catholic teachings rather than the stuff they “everyone knows” about the Catholic Church.

As for those who claim we worship Mary or that veneration is the same thing, I beg to differ.

971 “All generations will call me blessed”: "The Church’s devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship."515 The Church rightly honors "the Blessed Virgin with special devotion. From the most ancient times the Blessed Virgin has been honored with the title of ‘Mother of God,’ to whose protection the faithful fly in all their dangers and needs. . . . This very special devotion . . . differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and greatly fosters this adoration."516 The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an “epitome of the whole Gospel,” express this devotion to the Virgin Mary.517

 

[Yerusalyim]

JUSTASK4

No Christian should ever pray to Mary, the departed etc. Scripture teaches us that God alone is the one we are to pray to.

Using your reasoning here, I must insist that you never ask ANYONE to pray for you…EVER…Nor should you ever pray FOR anyone.

 

[geauxtigers]

Do you merely judge by appearance? How do you know that Catholic is praying to a statue. He could be using it as a mediation to focus his prayer on God. The problem with you Protestants. You merely judge by what you see as if you can read the mind and hearts of Catholic.

You don’t. Only God does.

These are veneration. You need to understand what Catholic veneration to the saints. These aren’t worship that put saints and Mary above God.

You may see some Catholic bow? Does it make him guilty? Bowing doesn’t necessary mean worship in the same sense as God.

If that were so King Solomon would be guilty of idolatry by worshipping His Mother Bathsheba.

Read 1 King Chapter 2 verse 19:21

19 So Bathsheba went to King Solomon, to speak to him on behalf of Adonijah. And the king rose to meet her, and bowed down to her; then he sat on his throne, and had a seat brought for the king’s mother; and she sat on his right. 20 Then she said, “I have one small request to make of you; do not refuse me.” And the king said to her, “Make your request, my mother; for I will not refuse you.” 21 She said, “Let Abishag the Shunammite be given to Adonijah your brother as his wife.”

Methinks thou dost protest too much.

 

[NPC]

I looked up the word “veneration” in the dictionary and this what it means honor something or somebody: to honor something or somebody as sacred or special

In the thesaurus it came up with these words:
revere, worship, adore, idolize, esteem, honor, respect, look up to, admire
antonym: disrespect

Worship means-religion treat somebody or something as deity: to treat somebody or something as divine and **show respect by engaging in acts of prayer and devotion **

In the thesaurus it uses these words–adoration, love, reverence, respect, devotion, adulation, veneration
Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2004. © 1993-2003 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

So no matter how catholics would like to get around this issue of worshipping Mary and saints, there is no getting around it. Worship is going on.

You have come to a very illogical conclusion by using the thesaurus! Why did you not accept the concise explanation given by your dictionary? A thesaurus gives a list of words which may, in some contexts, be used in place of another. However not all words can be substituted all the time - for example my thesaurus lists ‘joy’ as a substitute for ‘pleasure’; however this only works when in an appropriate context. I suggest, as I’m sure others have, that you will go to any lengths to try to uphold a common misconception held by many non-Catholics, ie: that we worship Mary and the saints.

I do accept that, especially in the past, some people have acted in ways which suggest that they worship Mary and the saints; however the universal Church (all the faithful) cannot be accused of this. The fact of the matter is that Catholics are encouraged to seek graces through the intercession of Mary and the saints - this is completely different from worshipping them as deities.

On the same issue, would you never ask someone to pray for you eg. during a difficult time, or for you to pray for someone who is ill? This is a request for intercession, and Catholics often ask Mary or a saint to intercede for us to God, trusting that through these holy people God might grant our prayers. That is not to say that there is anything wrong with going straight to God! The important thing is to remember that it is God who answers our prayers - the saints intercede on our behalf.

If you are genuinely interested in finding the official Church teaching on this, I would urge you to read the Catechism of the Catholic Church which is freely available on the internet. I hope you will find more answers to any doubts you have about the Catholic Church - but please use more logical and reliable sources than your thesaurus!!

With Best Wishes

 

[geauxtigers]

From reading this thread, I can understand that official Catholic teaching is that they do not worship or pray to saints, and that saints do not answer prayer.

However, in my own experience, the Catholics that I know do pray to the saints. My coworker said that she and her husband asked St. ???(I don’t remember the name) for something, but “I guess she decided we didn’t need it, because she said no.” There was no mention of God answering the prayer, only the saint herself answering. Also, I have seen the classified ads saying, “Thank you Saint **** for prayers answered.”

The original post asked why Protestants have such misconceptions about Catholic teachings. For myself, this is a good example. These are the Catholic beliefs that I see put into practice by the Catholics I know personally. Obviously, these people have been misinformed or have misunderstood.

One more thing I want to add, there are just as many misconceptions about Protestants by Catholics as there are about Catholics by Protestants. Have you been to my church? Have you spoken to my pastor? Have you sat in on one of our worship services or prayer meetings? It’s the same thing.

 

[mary_bobo]

When you see someone kneeling, praying, singing praises to what comes to your mind?

No Christian should ever pray to Mary, the departed etc. Scripture teaches us that God alone is the one we are to pray to.

Once again, with respect, why do you keep repeating the above when those of us who ARE Catholics and know what the Church teaches, have told you that what you choose to believe is not true. Your opinion does not make it so and I would think that if you really wanted the truth about what the church teaches, you would open you mind and hear it. Or are you just here to condemn that which you demonstrably know very little about?

 

[Pixie_Dust]

From reading this thread, I can understand that official Catholic teaching is that they do not worship or pray to saints, and that saints do not answer prayer.

However, in my own experience, the Catholics that I know do pray to the saints. My coworker said that she and her husband asked St. ???(I don’t remember the name) for something, but “I guess she decided we didn’t need it, because she said no.” There was no mention of God answering the prayer, only the saint herself answering. Also, I have seen the classified ads saying, “Thank you Saint **** for prayers answered.”

Have you ever had someone send a card to your church in which they’ve written, “Thanks for your prayers!”

The original post asked why Protestants have such misconceptions about Catholic teachings. For myself, this is a good example. These are the Catholic beliefs that I see put into practice by the Catholics I know personally. Obviously, these people have been misinformed or have misunderstood.

One more thing I want to add, there are just as many misconceptions about Protestants by Catholics as there are about Catholics by Protestants. Have you been to my church? Have you spoken to my pastor? Have you sat in on one of our worship services or prayer meetings? It’s the same thing.

I spent the last 34 years of my life as a Protestant, and a vehement anti-Catholic for many of those years. I have no misconceptions.

 

[Palladio]

Deeply mysterious to say that when non-Catholics tell Catholics that we worship Mary they should at show us where this belief actually exists within the teaching of the Catholic Church?

And I repeatedly look things up and post them to show that Catholics in fact do not believe what the poster claims. But the point is I expect them to do the same. If people are going to tell Catholics what they believe, they should at least have the courtesy to quote official Catholic teachings rather than the stuff they “everyone knows” about the Catholic Church.

As for those who claim we worship Mary or that veneration is the same thing, I beg to differ.

971 “All generations will call me blessed”: "The Church’s devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship."515 The Church rightly honors "the Blessed Virgin with special devotion. From the most ancient times the Blessed Virgin has been honored with the title of ‘Mother of God,’ to whose protection the faithful fly in all their dangers and needs. . . . This very special devotion . . . differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and greatly fosters this adoration."516 The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an “epitome of the whole Gospel,” express this devotion to the Virgin Mary.517

I misundertood you.

God bless.

 

[MariaG]

From reading this thread, I can understand that official Catholic teaching is that they do not worship or pray to saints, and that saints do not answer prayer.

However, in my own experience, the Catholics that I know do pray to the saints. My coworker said that she and her husband asked St. ???(I don’t remember the name) for something, but “I guess she decided we didn’t need it, because she said no.” There was no mention of God answering the prayer, only the saint herself answering. Also, I have seen the classified ads saying, “Thank you Saint **** for prayers answered.”

The original post asked why Protestants have such misconceptions about Catholic teachings. For myself, this is a good example. These are the Catholic beliefs that I see put into practice by the Catholics I know personally. Obviously, these people have been misinformed or have misunderstood.

One more thing I want to add, there are just as many misconceptions about Protestants by Catholics as there are about Catholics by Protestants. Have you been to my church? Have you spoken to my pastor? Have you sat in on one of our worship services or prayer meetings? It’s the same thing.

Many Cradle Catholics have no idea of how these words sound to non-Catholics who do not believe in asking the saints in heaven to pray for them.

Among Catholics, it would be understood that the person understands that God choose to answer prayer through this saint.

As someone already pointed out, Christians frequently thank those who prayed for them.

“Thanks for your prayers. They really helped me get though this hard time.”

It is hard for some to realize how alive and real the saints in heaven are to Catholics (and non-Catholics who ask saints to pray for them ) though the communion of Saints.

The only Catholics who seem to misunderstand this are the ones who leave the Church, in my experience. They say they worshipped Mary etc, and I must believe they knew what they were doing and were right to stop.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[geauxtigers]

Quote:
Originally Posted by geauxtigers
From reading this thread, I can understand that official Catholic teaching is that they do not worship or pray to saints, and that saints do not answer prayer.

However, in my own experience, the Catholics that I know do pray to the saints. My coworker said that she and her husband asked St. ???(I don’t remember the name) for something, but “I guess she decided we didn’t need it, because she said no.” There was no mention of God answering the prayer, only the saint herself answering. Also, I have seen the classified ads saying, “Thank you Saint **** for prayers answered.”

Have you ever had someone send a card to your church in which they’ve written, “Thanks for your prayers!”

These ads are saying “Thank you for answering my prayers” It is not the same thing…and my point was that they are not giving any glory and honor to God, the One who answered their prayers.

 

[MariaG]

These ads are saying “Thank you for answering my prayers” It is not the same thing…and my point was that they are not giving any glory and honor to God, the One who answered their prayers.

Respectfully, it is the same thing to a Catholic Christian. It is only those who do not understand, that think the glory and honor is not given to God.

 

[Pixie_Dust]

These ads are saying “Thank you for answering my prayers” It is not the same thing…and my point was that they are not giving any glory and honor to God, the One who answered their prayers.

I believe you would benefit from listening to The Communion of Saints (6th up from the bottom of the list) before you make such an accusation.

 

[St_Violet]

I think all it really takes a Protestant to do i to continue to make the Catholic Church look like the villian and themselves like victiums they will lead people away from the Church

 

[Teflon93]

I have to thank them though. Thanks to them, and the Holy Spirit within me stirring up unease in me at their lies, I actually bought a catechism of the Catholic Church and researched what Catholics really believe.

This is absolutely key.

The Catholic Church has a written Catechism. There is absolutely no excuse for promulgating lies about what the Church teaches in light of this fact.

Non-Catholics have plenty of fodder for criticizing us without needing to resort to lying about what the Church teaches. As in this thread, those who make silly claims about the Church immediately falsifiable by a five-second search of the Catechism have utterly no credibility.

And as we’ve seen on other threads, there is no shortage of things to debate between Christians beyond the mythology non-Catholics have created to justify their bigotry and keep their own in line.

 

[Teflon93]

One more thing I want to add, there are just as many misconceptions about Protestants by Catholics as there are about Catholics by Protestants. Have you been to my church? Have you spoken to my pastor? Have you sat in on one of our worship services or prayer meetings? It’s the same thing.

Nope, it’s not.

The teaching of the Catholic Church IS WRITTEN DOWN and available to all.

Your pastor’s teaching is not, nor are your prayer meetings.

Whenever someone slanders the Catholic Church, they are slandering one billion Christians.

It is not the same thing.

 

[Teflon93]

Have you ever had someone send a card to your church in which they’ve written, “Thanks for your prayers!”

I spent the last 34 years of my life as a Protestant, and a vehement anti-Catholic for many of those years. I have no misconceptions.

Amen—too many forget that there are a substantial number of us who were well-steeped in various Protestant denominations before coming home to Rome.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Methinks thou dost protest too much.

I’m more objection to Protestant misconception about the Catholic faith.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Nope, it’s not.

The teaching of the Catholic Church IS WRITTEN DOWN and available to all.

Your pastor’s teaching is not, nor are your prayer meetings.

Whenever someone slanders the Catholic Church, they are slandering one billion Christians.

It is not the same thing.

AMEN!