Why do Protestants say Catholicism leads to hell?

[myfavoritmartin]

So “born again believers” can wallow in sin if they so choose, and will make it through the Narrow Gate?

A born again believer would not wallow in sin.

 

[Teflon93]

A born again believer would not wallow in sin.

Well, then, you might need to define your terms, given the number who claim to be “born again” and yet do just that. That might be another thread, unless in so doing it helps explain why Protestants say those of us who do not just believe, but do as Christ bids us do, are hellbound.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

And that is the message of Scripture?

Seems like a lot of unnecessary pages whereas this one verse is sufficient, doesn’t it?

Context man, here look at Romans 5: 5But to the one who does not work, but (E)believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,

 

[Pixie_Dust]

“46”: And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

What makes you righteous? Christ work or your work?
Because human righteousness is like a filthy rag so if thats what your counting on good luck.

Our own righteousness (aka self-righteousness) is worthless, filthy rags. The righteousness that is ours THROUGH, WITH, and IN Jesus Christ is not. It’s priceless.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Well, then, you might need to define your terms, given the number who claim to be “born again” and yet do just that. That might be another thread, unless in so doing it helps explain why Protestants say those of us who do not just believe, but do as Christ bids us do, are hellbound.

Those whom say that would suggest that your need for work sells short Christs work on the cross; meaning NO faith in HIM rather in your own works.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Our own righteousness (aka self-righteousness) is worthless, filthy rags. The righteousness that is ours THROUGH, WITH, and IN Jesus Christ is not. It’s priceless.

Romans 5: 5
But to the one who does not work, but (E)believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,

Faith is the necessary thing unto righteousness.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Saving faith is entrusting oneself to CHRIST as Lord AND SAVIOR.

Romans 10:8-17 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain

8But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

**9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. **
10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

12For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

16But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

** 17So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.**

 

[Teflon93]

Those whom say that would suggest that your need for work sells short Christs work on the cross; meaning NO faith in HIM rather in your own works.

They can read the Catechism, same as you. Since many of these same folks also believe Christ died not for all men, but only for the Elect, squaring that circle is up to them.

 

[Teflon93]

So now MFM must take on the task of showing that the Catholic Church believes faith to be unnecessary.

I look forward to that.

Lots of references to Paul, as to be expected, but rather less Christ and no James.

So is Scripture, the guide to salvation, now limited to a verse in Isaiah, some stray verses in Paul, and an extra-Scriptural interpretation of Matthew some 1,500 years removed from the Apostolic Age?

If not, you have to contend with ALL of the responses Christ gave regarding salvation, including those in Mark 25 and John 6, as well as James.

Otherwise, it’ll be a tough row to hoe to claim that Catholics are hellbound for doing what Scripture says to do, rather than engaging in theology by subtraction to justify the absence of valid authority.

 

[jmcrae]

Christine who are the goats according to Rome?
You don’t think the goats are the unbelievers rather they are the undoers? is that what your suggesting?

The goats believed in their hearts - they sang out LORD, LORD all the day long - but they did no good works; that’s why they went to Hell.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

The goats believed in their hearts - they sang out LORD, LORD all the day long - but they did no good works; that’s why they went to Hell.

And you ascertained this lil tidbit from what scripture?

 

[myfavoritmartin]

So now MFM must take on the task of showing that the Catholic Church believes faith to be unnecessary.

I look forward to that.

841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims.** “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”**

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Otherwise, it’ll be a tough row to hoe to claim that Catholics are hellbound for doing what Scripture says to do, rather than engaging in theology by subtraction to justify the absence of valid authority.

I’m merely pointing out Tef that having justification fully encompass sanctification and make them unseperable as Rome does leads many to believe that your faith is on your own works of merit and not on Christ work on the cross. And many many many scripture would back the view that we can do nothing toward salvation or CHRIST died for nothing.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

If not, you have to contend with ALL of the responses Christ gave regarding salvation, including those in Mark 25 and John 6, as well as James.

.

There is nothing to contend with on any of these Matthew is speaking of believers and unbelievers John speaks of the “spirit” not of the flesh and James is simply showing that works justifies faith not salvation.

 

[myfavoritmartin]

I’m merely pointing out Tef that having justification fully encompass sanctification and make them unseperable as Rome does leads many to believe that your faith is on your own works of merit and not on Christ work on the cross. And many many many scripture would back the view that we can do nothing toward salvation or CHRIST died for nothing.

Gal 2:20-21
20I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

21I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

 

[Teflon93]

And you ascertained this lil tidbit from what scripture?

Luke 6:46 perhaps: “Why do you call me Lord, Lord, but do not do as I say?”

 

[Teflon93]

841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims.** “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham**, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”

You’ll notice the reference to faith, right?

 

[Teflon93]

I’m merely pointing out Tef that having justification fully encompass sanctification and make them unseperable as Rome does leads many to believe that your faith is on your own works of merit and not on Christ work on the cross. And many many many scripture would back the view that we can do nothing toward salvation or CHRIST died for nothing.

Well, provide the references then, absent one word of interpretation. The relationship in bold will be interesting to see proven by Scripture alone.

My own bias is of course toward what Christ himself says, since there’s far less chance of misinterpretation and since Christ is an authority above reproach.

 

[Teflon93]

There is nothing to contend with on any of these Matthew is speaking of believers and unbelievers John speaks of the “spirit” not of the flesh and James is simply showing that works justifies faith not salvation.

Well, that settles it, but for the fact that Scripture says no such thing.

Jesus at no point in the discussion in Matthew 25 says that believers are sheep and unbelievers goats, but rather says “those who do this” and “those who do that”. Do. Not believe.

John 6 goes on and on in very visceral language (the Greek is something like “Gnaw my flesh”) to describe how just as the Jews in the desert nourished themselves on the manna sent by God, so must the disciples nourish themselves on the body and blood of Christ. Speaking of the “spirit” would hardly cause everyone but the 12 to depart from Jesus, outraged, as Scripture says they did.

James of course emphasises that man is saved by works and not by faith alone—indeed the only Scripture reference to “faith alone” until Luther tried to pull a fast one and insert it into Romans. Faith without works is dead, right, so in the question above, someone who read Scripture all day long and believed in the Lord but did absolutely nothing when able to do so would be in danger of goathood. The thief on the cross did what he could—profess boldly his faith in the Lord, and his baptism of desire was sufficient for his salvation. Since there aren’t any “born agains” being crucified, I hope they’re out there feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, and visiting the imprisoned!

Unless you somehow think dead faith = salvation.

 

[Teflon93]

Gal 2:20-21
20I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

21I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Context, man, context!

When Paul speaks of the law, he is speaking of the Mosaic Law. Consider his audience.

Also consider that if your interpretation held, Paul is the world’s biggest hypocrite for having Timothy circumcised, isn’t he?