Why do some Catholics have a problem with Pope Francis?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Baguette
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I’m not exactly sure that the continuity of the Papacy is dependent on other Bishops or Cardinals being alive to elect a person to the office. I’m not keen on Sedevacantist theology and am not sure as to how they would resolve their own problem, namely that there is no legitimate pope. It sort of begs the chicken or the egg question. What comes first, the Pope or the Bishops?

I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure that the election of the pope is not set out in the Divine Positive Law and is therefore subject to change. The Church may not require that a pope be elected by Cardinals. It certainly doesn’t require a candidate for pope to be anything but a baptized Catholic.

Yet, going back to speaking strictly: Indefectibility doesn’t come into question with regards the Sedevacantists. If I’m not mistaken, they also believe in the indefectibility of the Church.
 
I don’t actually think that. I’m playing the Devil’s Advocate.

But in my twisted logic, I say that yes, Holy Orders are a Sacrament. But the fullness of Holy Orders is a Bishop, not the Pope. If you’re concerned about hierarchy, how about the Bishops that agree with me that the Chair is empty?

(Note: I do not know of any validly ordained Bishops who believe that the Papacy is empty.)
 
@(name removed by moderator) This is a good thought experiment.
David_Figueroa said:
Because he is taking every Catholic doctrine and throwing it out the window. He is a disgrace to the chair of Peter.
Click to expand...
Can we take this statement as a refusal of submission to the current Roman Pontiff?
 
I’m picking up what you’re putting down. It’s obviously problematic for Sede’s. It would certainly be interesting to hear a Sede explain how they would resolve this problem.
 
True! If David refuses to submit to Pope Francis as the Supreme Pontiff, then we have a schismatic.
 
Yeah, but I think the media plays a huge part in purposefully misinterpreting Francis.
 
I don’t deny that there are elements in the Church that in fact do support “LGBT” ideology (Fr. James Martin comes to mind), but Pope Francis is definitely not one of those elements. You’re right though, a well-catechized Catholic would be able to see through the media.
 
Which Catholic Doctrine has Pope Francis thrown out ?

Please be specific and post the document supporting your accusation.

Jim
 
Well technically all the sacraments would still be valid from the Eastern Orthodox right? They have a valid clergy
 
Well, let’s stick to the facts:
  1. Pope Francis is against abortion
  2. Pope Francis wrote an epic piece against the transgender agenda (yes, gang that is an agenda)
  3. Pope Francis is against so-called gay “marriage”
Even a lot of Western right-wingers aren’t that conservative.

Where this gets tangled are on the issues of immigration and climate change. Frankly, the Vatican has a PR problem here and it needs to be adjusted. Let’s face it—they got burned on the wall issue.

Look at it like this: If everyone wants to hold other leaders like say Donald Trump to this lofty standard, then we should start by keeping our own house clean and expecting our Church leaders to be open to new ideas and debate, and no I am not just talking about women priests or GLBTQ issues.

I do like Pope Francis’s extensive outreach. But I can promise you those for the most part who he reaches out will not respond in kind right away if at all. But, that’s what we are told to expect as Catholics.
 
Baguette said:
Maybe it’s because he offers new way to approach the faith?

Some said he’s a leftist pope, and that the Church has been hijacked.
Click to expand...
I don’t think it really has anything to do with the Pope’s religious views at all. The Pope has had some political arguments with President Trump and some other world leaders. Although the Trumps did visit the Vatican this year, and they are getting along, so it isn’t big of rift.
 
I like Pope Francis, both personally and otherwise (I’m also partial to the Jesuits, so I’m a bit biased). What I’ve seen is a lot of laity get second-hand “news” about what he has/has not done, said or did not say and they don’t bother to ferret out the truth for themselves. My mom is a cradle Catholic and some of the things she thinks the Pope is doing is just misinfostion and, in a lot of cases, reflects poor catachesis or just a general lack of knowledge about the Church. I also think the Vatican has a media problem that needs to be dealt with, but I don’t know enough to lay that in the Pope’s lap (or anyone else’s, for that matter). I do my best to stay out of the more uh… political aspects of the faith so I’m not always as current with some issues and others.
 
Augustinian said:
The Pope has had some political arguments with President Trump and some other world leaders.
Click to expand...
He has made statements, but what constitutes and argument is in the mind of the journalist and the ones who read journalists with discernment. I remember when Pope Francis visited Obama everything was cordial, but yet he gave the President a gift of an encyclical that addressed the problem of abortion.
 
Because he speaks much about social justice and other issues and not merely about abortion and that doesn’t fit their personal politics.
 
I think some people can make a reasonable case that he’s a bit of a “show boater”…effecting a false humility…with an overly active eye for what looks good on camera (paying his hotel bill on day 1). Flare for the dramatic…the plane inteviews…the plane wedding…the Our Father…he can’t seem to not weigh in. He can’t seem to NOT comment on any and all topics. So there’s a concern about over-exposure…that is to say…when the pope must weigh in on something truly important, he will have spent his authority talking about all the other things he talks about every day.

This grates on them.
 
Last edited:
Edward_H said:
I think some people can make a reasonable case that he’s a bit of a “show boater”…effecting a false humility…with an overly active eye for what looks good on camera (paying his hotel bill on day 1).
Click to expand...
People can. Christians shouldn’t. Also, I take issue that it is reasonable to see someone else and try to read their motives based on one’s own personality. He did a lot of the same type of things before he was Pope.
 
Last edited:
He is my kind of Pope but the AL and too visible into politic kind of jostle me a little. I like his simplicity. Hope he will not cause too much division within the Church by his teaching and politic. My prayer is for him.
 
Last edited:
Since when is dialogue and caring about marginalized people supporting a “LGBT ideology”.

Whether you like him or not, Fr. Martin is a Catholic priest in good standing with the Society of Jesus and the Church. He does not support any ideology that is not Catholic and to say otherwise is wrong.

Maybe, instead of listening to what others say about him, people should actually try reading his books and listening to him speak.
 
Saying that you disagree with the Pope is not Schism. I fully agree that he is the Pope, and that he is the rightful successor of Saint Peter. I am just not a big fan of the direction that he is taking the Church. Speaking out against the Pope is not wrong. We have had bad Popes in the past (much worse than Francis) who have literally raped and murdered children. They were 100 percent valid Popes, and the rightful successors to Peter, but any true faithful Catholic could see that they were a disgrace to the Holy See. Speaking out against the clergy is not Sedevecantism. I am not a sedevacantist. I find the Sedvacantist position despicable, as any true Catholic should. I simply do not like Pope Francis.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top