Why do some people absolutely "hate" the Catholic religion?

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Dear SPOKENWORD:

I agree that there are many people who would call themselves “Catholic” who simply don’t know how to evangelize. I have also met many protestants who do not evangelize, as well-- either because they don’t know how or perhaps they too are humble.

In faith,
Fiat
 
Paris Blues:
See, this is the problem…then other denominations will argue against that. They will say, well, we ARE saved because…etc. etc. My question is, if THAT’s the truth of the quote above, then that means other denominations are doomed?
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Exactly. That is exactly what the Catholic Church (and our LordJesus Christ) teach: absolutely no one AT ALL can be saved outside the Roman Catholic Church: not protestant, nor jew, nor mohammadean, nor schismatic, and certainly not infidels and pagans can be saved outside of Her. The Church has infallibly defined this three times. Nothing any Pope from henceforth says can change what has been infallibly defined. We, as Catholics, know that there is absolutely no such thing as changing doctrine, as this would conradict the very Nature of God: unchanging, and such a belief would contradict the words of Holy Writ: “For I am the Lord, and I change not,” (Malachias iii. 6) and “Jesus Christ, yesterday, and today; and the same for ever” (Hebrews xiii. 8). We know that there is neither any such thing as “evolution of doctrine” that is: a doctrine meaning one thing at one point and then changing later. We confess that additions to a defined doctrine can be made, but absolutely nothing can be CHANGED in anyway whatsoever.

To say, as the Church has infallibly in the Council of Lateran IV: “One indeed is the universal Church of the fauthful outside of which NO ONE AT ALL IS SAVED”, and again at Florence: “It [The Roman Catholic Church] firmly believes, professes, and preaches, that NONE of those outside the Church, neither pagan nor Jew, nor heretic or schismatic, can have a share in life eternal, but that they will go into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels, unless BEFORE DEATH the same ae joined to Her.”

Now, to say: yes, some heretics can be saved, some infidels, some pagans, even, can be saved, is an absolute and clear CHANGE in this doctrine. “ABSOLUTELY NO ONE” outsise the Church can be saved CANNOT become: “Almost no one” or even yet “a few people” outside the Church being saved. It says ABSOLUTELY NO ONE. We know what ABSOLUTELY means: that means positively, not one single instance at all.

Today some propose a pernicious error so readily condemned by Blessed Pius IX. They propose that those who want to be baptized are still a part of the Church, even though they have not partaken in the Sacrament of regeneration, the only way to forgive Original Sin! This is a pernicious and damnable heresy. Moreover, even worse, some say that not only can you be saved by a baptism of desire but even if you don’t know what baptism is, you can mysteriously have a desire for what you do not know exists! How contrary to reason this is! How can we know, how can we love, how can we at all desire, something that we do not know exists?! How could a person desire to read a book if he not only did not have a book but also could not even read in the first place?! He could never have such a desire. Only such things that are natural in men are desired by nature alone. Baptism is not natural to men; it is not a part of the natural law. On the contrary, Christ instituted it in a supernatural way, to give supernatural grace, without which we have no hope for salvation.

We must listen most readily to the word of Christ Himself in Holy Scripture, speaking to the Apostles: “He that heareth you, heareth me; and he that despiseth you, despiseth me; and he that despiseth me, despiseth him that sent me” (Lk. 10.16)

If any man will not hear the Apostles appointed by Christ (the Bishops of our holy religion), he is a stranger to salvation. He is without hope.
 
Paris Blues,

Hear the Popes of the Church history:

Pope Pelagius II (A.D. 578 - 590): “Consider the fact that whoever has not been in the peace and unity of the Church cannot have the Lord. …Although given over to flames and fires, they burn, or, thrown to wild beasts, they lay down their lives, there will not be (for them) that crown of faith but the punishment of faithlessness. …Such a one can be slain, he cannot be crowned. …[If] slain outside the Church, he cannot attain the rewards of the Church.” (Denzinger 246-247)
Pope Saint Gregory the Great (A.D. 590 - 604): “Now the holy Church universal proclaims that God cannot be truly worshipped saving within herself, asserting that all they that are without her shall never be saved.” (Moralia)

Pope Innocent III (A.D. 1198 - 1216): “With our hearts we believe and with our lips we confess but one Church, not that of the heretics, but the Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church, outside which we believe that no one is saved.” (Denzinger 423)

Pope Leo XII (A.D. 1823 - 1829): “We profess that there is no salvation outside the Church. …For the Church is the pillar and ground of the truth. With reference to those words Augustine says: `If any man be outside the Church he will be excluded from the number of sons, and will not have God for Father since he has not the Church for mother.’” (Encyclical, Ubi Primum)

Pope Gregory XVI (A.D. 1831 - 1846): “It is not possible to worship God truly except in Her; all who are outside Her will not be saved.” (Encyclical, Summo Jugiter)

Pope Pius IX (A.D. 1846 - 1878): “It must be held by faith that outside the Apostolic Roman Church, no one can be saved; that this is the only ark of salvation; that he who shall not have entered therein will perish in the flood.” (Denzinger 1647)

Pope Leo XIII (A.D. 1878 - 1903): “This is our last lesson to you; receive it, engrave it in your minds, all of you: by God’s commandment salvation is to be found nowhere but in the Church.” (Encyclical, Annum Ingressi Sumus)

“He scatters and gathers not who gathers not with the Church and with Jesus Christ, and all who fight not jointly with Him and with the Church are in very truth contending against God.” (Encyclical, Sapientiae Christianae)

Pope Saint Pius X (A.D. 1903 - 1914): “It is our duty to recall to everyone great and small, as the Holy Pontiff Gregory did in ages past, the absolute necessity which is ours, to have recourse to this Church to effect our eternal salvation.” (Encyclical, Jucunda Sane)

Pope Benedict XV (A.D. 1914 - 1922): “Such is the nature of the Catholic faith that it does not admit of more or less, but must be held as a whole, or as a whole rejected: This is the Catholic faith, which unless a man believe faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved.” (Encyclical, Ad Beatissimi Apostolorum)

Pope Pius XI (A.D. 1922 - 1939): “The Catholic Church alone is keeping the true worship. This is the font of truth, this is the house of faith, this is the temple of God; if any man enter not here, or if any man go forth from it, he is a stranger to the hope of life and salvation. …Furthermore, in this one Church of Christ, no man can be or remain who does not accept, recognize and obey the authority and supremacy of Peter and his legitimate successors.” (Encyclical, Mortalium Animos)

Pope Pius XII (A.D. 1939 - 1958): “By divine mandate the interpreter and guardian of the Scriptures, and the depository of Sacred Tradition living within her, the Church alone is the entrance to salvation: She alone, by herself, and under the protection and guidance of the Holy Spirit, is the source of truth.” (Allocution to the Gregorian, October 17, 1953)
 
To Paris, again:

The 3 infallible declarations:

Pope Innocent III and Lateran Council IV (A.D. 1215): “One indeed is the universal Church of the faithful outside which no one at all is saved…”
Pope Boniface VIII in his Papal Bull Unam Sanctam (A.D. 1302): “We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.”

Pope Eugene IV and the Council of Florence (A.D. 1438 - 1445): “[The most Holy Roman Church] firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart `into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels’ (Matt. 25:41), unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.”

And the Fathers of the Church proclaim the same:
Saint Irenaeus (died A.D. 202): “[The Church] is the entrance to life; all others are thieves and robbers. On this account we are bound to avoid them… We hear it declared of the unbelieving and the blinded of this world that they shall not inherit the world of life which is to come… Resist them in defense of the only true and life giving faith, which the Church has received from the Apostles and imparted to her sons.” (Against Heresies, Book III)

Origen (died A.D. 254): “Let no man deceive himself. Outside this house, that is, outside the Church no one is saved.” (In Iesu Nave homiliae)

Saint Cyprian (died A.D. 258): “He who has turned his back on the Church of Christ shall not come to the rewards of Christ; he is an alien, a worldling, an enemy. You cannot have God for your Father if you have not the Church for your mother. Our Lord warns us when He says: `he that is not with Me is against Me, and he that gathereth not with Me scattereth.’ Whosoever breaks the peace and harmony of Christ acts against Christ; whoever gathers elsewhere than in the Church scatters the Church of Christ.” (Unity of the Catholic Church)

“He who does not hold this unity, does not hold the law of God, does not hold the faith of the Father and the Son, does not hold life and salvation.” (Patrologiae Cursus Completus: Latina, Father Migne)

“Nay, though they should suffer death for the confession of the Name, the guilt of such men is not removed even by their blood…No martyr can he be who is not in the Church.” (Ancient Christian Writers)

Bishop Firmilean (died A.D. 269): “What is the greatness of his error, and what the depth of his blindness, who says that remission of sins can be granted in the synagogues of heretics, and does not abide on the foundation of the one Church.” (Anti-Nicene Fathers)

Lactantius (died A.D. 310): “It is the Catholic Church alone which retains true worship. This is the fountain of truth, this is the abode of the Faith, this is the temple of God; into which if anyone shall not enter, or from which if anyone shall go out, he is a stranger to the hope of life and eternal salvation.” (The Divine Institutes)

Saint Cyril of Jerusalem (died A.D. 386): “Abhor all heretics…heed not their fair speaking or their mock humility; for they are serpents, a brood of vipers.' Remember that, when Judas said Hail Rabbi,’ the salutation was an act of betrayal. Do not be deceived by the kiss but beware of the venom. Abhor such men, therefore, and shun the blasphemers of the Holy Spirit, for whom there is no pardon. For what fellowship have you with men without hope. Let us confidently say to God regarding all heretics, Did I not hate, O Lord, those who hated Thee, and did I not pine away because of Your enemies?' For there is an enmity that is laudable, as it is written, I will put enmity between you and the woman, between your seed and her seed.’ Friendship with the serpent produces enmity with God, and death. Let us shun those from whom God turns away.” (The Fathers of the Church)
 
Lastly, to Paris, a continuation of the Fathers:

Saint Ambrose (died A.D. 397): “Where Peter is therefore, there is the Church. Where the Church is there is not death but life eternal. …Although many call themselves Christians, they usurp the name and do not have the reward.” (The Fathers of the Church)

Bishop Niceta of Remesiana (died A.D. 415): “He is the Way along which we journey to our salvation; the Truth, because He
rejects what is false; the Life, because He destroys death. …All who from the beginning of the world were, or are, or will be justified - whether Patriarchs, like Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, or Prophets, whether Apostles or martyrs, or any others - make up one Church, because they are made holy by one faith and way of life, stamped with one Spirit, made into one Body whose Head, as we are told, is Christ. I go further. The angels and virtues and powers in heaven are co-members in this one Church, for, as the Apostle teaches us, in Christ all things whether on the earth or in the heavens have been reconciled.' You must believe, therefore, that in this one Church you are gathered into the Communion of Saints. You must know that this is the one Catholic Church established throughout the world, and with it you must remain in unshaken communion. There are, indeed, other so called churches’ with which you can have no communion. …These `churches’ cease to be holy, because they were deceived by the doctrines of the devil to believe and behave differently from what Christ commanded and from the tradition of the Apostles.” (The Fathers of the Church)
Saint Jerome (died A.D. 420): “As I follow no leader save Christ, so I communicate with none but your blessedness, that is, with the Chair of Peter. For this, I know, is the rock on which the Church is built. …This is the ark of Noah, and he who is not found in it shall perish when the flood prevails. …And as for heretics, I have never spared them; on the contrary, I have seen to it in every possible way that the Church’s enemies are also my enemies.” (Manual of Patrology and History of Theology)

Saint Augustine (died A.D. 430): “No man can find salvation except in the Catholic Church. Outside the Catholic Church one can have everything except salvation. One can have honor, one can have the sacraments, one can sing alleluia, one can answer amen, one can have faith in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, and preach it too, but never can one find salvation except in the Catholic Church.” (Sermo ad Caesariensis Ecclesia plebem)

Saint Fulgentius (died A.D. 533): “Most firmly hold and never doubt that not only pagans, but also all Jews, all heretics, and all schismatics who finish this life outside of the Catholic Church, will go into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.” (Enchiridion Patristicum)

St. Bede the Venerable (died A.D. 735): “Just as all within the ark were saved and all outside of it were carried away when the flood came, so when all who are pre-ordained to eternal life have entered the Church, the end of the world will come and all will perish who are found outside.” (Hexaemeron)

Saint Thomas Aquinas (died A.D. 1274): “There is no entering into salvation outside the Church, just as in the time of the deluge there was none outside the ark, which denotes the Church.” (Summa Theologiae)

Saint Peter Canisius (died A.D. 1597): “Outside of this communion - as outside of the ark of Noah - there is absolutely no salvation for mortals: not for Jews or pagans who never received the faith of the Church, nor for heretics who, having received it, corrupted it; neither for the excommunicated or those who for any other serious cause deserve to be put away and separated from the body of the Church like pernicious members…for the rule of Cyprian and Augustine is certain: he will not have God for his Father who would not have the Church for his mother.” (Catechismi Latini et Germanici)

Saint Robert Bellarmine (died A.D. 1621): “Outside the Church there is no salvation…therefore in the symbol [Apostles Creed] we join together the Church with the remission of sins: `I believe in the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins’…For this reason the Church is compared with the ark of Noah, because just as during the deluge, everyone perished who was not in the ark, so now those perish who are not in the Church.” (De Sacramento Baptismi)

The list could continue for many thousands of quotes, without exaggeration: this has been taught in thousands of writings of the Church and Her Saints.
 
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CatholicCrusade:
Exactly. That is exactly what the Catholic Church (and our LordJesus Christ) teach: absolutely no one AT ALL can be saved outside the Roman Catholic Church: not protestant, nor jew, nor mohammadean, nor schismatic, and certainly not infidels and pagans can be saved outside of Her. The Church has infallibly defined this three times. Nothing any Pope from henceforth says can change what has been infallibly defined. We, as Catholics, know that there is absolutely no such thing as changing doctrine, as this would conradict the very Nature of God: unchanging, and such a belief would contradict the words of Holy Writ: “For I am the Lord, and I change not,” (Malachias iii. 6) and “Jesus Christ, yesterday, and today; and the same for ever” (Hebrews xiii. 8). We know that there is neither any such thing as “evolution of doctrine” that is: a doctrine meaning one thing at one point and then changing later. We confess that additions to a defined doctrine can be made, but absolutely nothing can be CHANGED in anyway whatsoever.

To say, as the Church has infallibly in the Council of Lateran IV: “One indeed is the universal Church of the fauthful outside of which NO ONE AT ALL IS SAVED”, and again at Florence: “It [The Roman Catholic Church] firmly believes, professes, and preaches, that NONE of those outside the Church, neither pagan nor Jew, nor heretic or schismatic, can have a share in life eternal, but that they will go into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels, unless BEFORE DEATH the same ae joined to Her.”

Now, to say: yes, some heretics can be saved, some infidels, some pagans, even, can be saved, is an absolute and clear CHANGE in this doctrine. “ABSOLUTELY NO ONE” outsise the Church can be saved CANNOT become: “Almost no one” or even yet “a few people” outside the Church being saved. It says ABSOLUTELY NO ONE. We know what ABSOLUTELY means: that means positively, not one single instance at all.

Today some propose a pernicious error so readily condemned by Blessed Pius IX. They propose that those who want to be baptized are still a part of the Church, even though they have not partaken in the Sacrament of regeneration, the only way to forgive Original Sin! This is a pernicious and damnable heresy. Moreover, even worse, some say that not only can you be saved by a baptism of desire but even if you don’t know what baptism is, you can mysteriously have a desire for what you do not know exists! How contrary to reason this is! How can we know, how can we love, how can we at all desire, something that we do not know exists?! How could a person desire to read a book if he not only did not have a book but also could not even read in the first place?! He could never have such a desire. Only such things that are natural in men are desired by nature alone. Baptism is not natural to men; it is not a part of the natural law. On the contrary, Christ instituted it in a supernatural way, to give supernatural grace, without which we have no hope for salvation.

We must listen most readily to the word of Christ Himself in Holy Scripture, speaking to the Apostles: “He that heareth you, heareth me; and he that despiseth you, despiseth me; and he that despiseth me, despiseth him that sent me” (Lk. 10.16)

If any man will not hear the Apostles appointed by Christ (the Bishops of our holy religion), he is a stranger to salvation. He is without hope.
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Even if they believe in the Gospel and all that? They can’t be saved? The only way they can be is if they join the CC??? :confused: You say that “That is exactly what the Catholic Church (and our LordJesus Christ) teach: absolutely no one AT ALL can be saved outside the Roman Catholic Church: not protestant, nor jew, nor mohammadean, nor schismatic, and certainly not infidels and pagans can be saved outside of Her” Please show me where our Lord taught that.

Nicole
 
St. John 3.5: “Amen, Amen, I say to thee, unless a man be born again of WATER and the Holy Ghost, he shall not enter the Kingdom of Heaven.”

That right there proves beyond any doubt that BAPTISM OF WATER is necessary for salvation. Christ says just that. That rules out just about everyone except, of course, those who have baptism… and we must also remember the definition of a Sacrament. For it to be valid, the one who administers the Sacrament must have the intention to DO AS THE CHURCH DOES, which means the person must intend to remit the Original Sin of the person. The protestants who start off: this baptism is a symbolic proclamation of faith, etc., etc. have proven invincibly that they do not have any such intention.

And He says so again in St. Mark 16.16: “He who believeth AND IS BAPTIZED shall be saved, but he who believeth not shall be condemned.”

Here we have another decree from Christ on the necessity of Baptism, but He also brings up another point: but he who BELIEVETH NOT shall be condemned. Now, what does this belief encompass? Does it encompass simply saying: I accept you as personal Lord and Saviour (the protestant ‘saved’ prayer)? Does it mean that as long as a person does what he thinks the Bible says? No. What it means is: He who believes each and everything I have said. Let us elaborate with Scripture:

“And why call you me, Lord, Lord; and do not the things which I say?” St. Luke vi. 46. Christ is very clear. It is useless to call Him Lord and not do the things He commands. He does not say to merely believe in Him. He says to follow all He has taught.

“Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me” (St. John xiv. 6). Christ says that He is the TRUTH. Therefore, if you do not have the TRUTH (in doctrine), you DO NOT have Christ.

“And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free” (St. John viii. 32). The TRUTH will set you free, the truth in doctrine, not “living by your heart”.

“Pilate therefore said to him: Art thou a king then? Jesus answered: Thou sayest that I am a king. For this was I born, and for this came I into the world; that I should give testimony to the truth. Every one that is of the truth, heareth my voice” (St. John xviii. 3). Christ came into the world to teach TRUTH. If you do not have the truth in doctrine, you do not have Christ, and you have made Christ suffer and die in vain, as He came to earth to teach the truth, only to be murdered. By disregarding the necessity of doctrinal truth, you say that Christ came to earth for no reason, as He Himself said this is His purpose to come to earth.

“And other sheep I have, that are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice, and there shall be one fold and one shepherd” St. (John x. 16). The fold of Christ (Christians) will be in ONE fold, ONE Church, not 35,000 different protestant religions, which is the current number and growing. All of these different religions believe at least one thing differently than the rest of the religions, or they would not have left and formed a new one. However, Christ says there is ONE correct Religion, which is the Catholic Church.

“As I desired thee to remain at Ephesus when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some not to teach otherwise, Not to give heed to fables” (I St. Timothy i. 3 & 4). St. Paul says that he instructed St. Timothy not to teach other than what he taught because the doctrine he taught must be preserved. They are not to believe in false doctrines, which is how the word fables is sometimes translated. It is not a free-for-all concerning what we must believe.

“Now the Spirit manifestly saith, that in the last times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to spirits of error, and doctrines of devils” (I St. Timothy iv. 1). Some will DEPART from the Faith, if they give heed to incorrect doctrine. Doctrine seems very important here.

(continued)
 
“That henceforth we be no more children tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine by the wickedness of men, by cunning craftiness, by which they lie in wait to deceive” (Ephesians iv. 14). We will NOT be tossed to and fro with every whim of doctrine. What more could this mean than 35,000 + protestant religions, each creating a new religion at every whim of new doctrine? Doctrine is not something that is degraded to a mere whim. It is necessary. It is essential.
“Embracing that faithful word which is according to doctrine, that he may be able to exhort in sound doctrine, and to convince the gainsayers” (St. Titus i. 9). One must persevere according to sound doctrine in order to be truly a Christian.

“Who answered and said: It is written, Not in bread alone doth man live, but in every word that proceedeth from the mouth of God” (St. Matthew iv. 4). EVERY word that comes from the mouth of God must be obeyed. Everything Christ commanded MUST be believed, even that which is not written down: “But there are also many other things which Jesus did; which, if they were written every one, the world itself, I think, would not be able to contain the books that should be written,” (St. John xxi. 15) and “Many other signs also did Jesus in the sight of his disciples, which are not written in this book” (St. John xx. 30). Just because it is not written in the Bible, does not mean we are not bound to believe it. A person must believe everything Christ taught and said or he is not a Christian because his soul does not live since he does not follow “every word that proceedeth from the mouth of God.”
“But when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will teach you all truth. For he shall not speak of himself; but what things soever he shall hear, he shall speak; and the things that are to come, he shall shew you” (St. John xvi. 13). The Holy Ghost teaches ALL truth in doctrine, not just some. We must believe ALL the truth, or we are not following what Christ has taught.

“And the multitude of believers had but one heart and one soul: neither did any one say that aught of the things which he possessed, was his own; but all things were common unto them” (Acts of the Apostles iv. 32). The very first Christians all had the same beliefs. They were of one heart and soul, not giving heed to false doctrines, and all was in common in belief among them. That is the true Church. The only Church that has never changed is the Catholic Church, and She has been around since the first century, founded by Christ Himself.

“Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no schisms among you; but that you be perfect in the same mind, and in the same judgment” (I Corinthians i. 10). St. Paul tells the Corinthians that there can be NO schisms and divisions in belief among them. They must be PERFECT in the same beliefs. Their beliefs must be identical, perfect, without flaw.

“And the glory which thou hast given me, I have given to them; that they may be one, as we also are one: I in them, and thou in me; that they may be made perfect in one: and the world may know that thou hast sent me” (St. John xvii. 22, 23). Here Christ says that His followers will be ONE, just as He and the Father are One. Christ could be no clearer! God the Father and God the Son are One and the same God. They do not dispute over doctrines. They are of one mind. They believe the exact same things. Believers must be likewise: of one mind.

(continued)
 
“That henceforth we be no more children tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine by the wickedness of men, by cunning craftiness, by which they lie in wait to deceive” (Ephesians iv. 14). We will NOT be tossed to and fro with every whim of doctrine. What more could this mean than 35,000 + protestant religions, each creating a new religion at every whim of new doctrine? Doctrine is not something that is degraded to a mere whim. It is necessary. It is essential.
“Embracing that faithful word which is according to doctrine, that he may be able to exhort in sound doctrine, and to convince the gainsayers” (St. Titus i. 9). One must persevere according to sound doctrine in order to be truly a Christian.

“Who answered and said: It is written, Not in bread alone doth man live, but in every word that proceedeth from the mouth of God” (St. Matthew iv. 4). EVERY word that comes from the mouth of God must be obeyed. Everything Christ commanded MUST be believed, even that which is not written down: “But there are also many other things which Jesus did; which, if they were written every one, the world itself, I think, would not be able to contain the books that should be written,” (St. John xxi. 15) and “Many other signs also did Jesus in the sight of his disciples, which are not written in this book” (St. John xx. 30). Just because it is not written in the Bible, does not mean we are not bound to believe it. A person must believe everything Christ taught and said or he is not a Christian because his soul does not live since he does not follow “every word that proceedeth from the mouth of God.”
“But when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will teach you all truth. For he shall not speak of himself; but what things soever he shall hear, he shall speak; and the things that are to come, he shall shew you” (St. John xvi. 13). The Holy Ghost teaches ALL truth in doctrine, not just some. We must believe ALL the truth, or we are not following what Christ has taught.

“And the multitude of believers had but one heart and one soul: neither did any one say that aught of the things which he possessed, was his own; but all things were common unto them” (Acts of the Apostles iv. 32). The very first Christians all had the same beliefs. They were of one heart and soul, not giving heed to false doctrines, and all was in common in belief among them. That is the true Church. The only Church that has never changed is the Catholic Church, and She has been around since the first century, founded by Christ Himself.

“Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no schisms among you; but that you be perfect in the same mind, and in the same judgment” (I Corinthians i. 10). St. Paul tells the Corinthians that there can be NO schisms and divisions in belief among them. They must be PERFECT in the same beliefs. Their beliefs must be identical, perfect, without flaw.

“And the glory which thou hast given me, I have given to them; that they may be one, as we also are one: I in them, and thou in me; that they may be made perfect in one: and the world may know that thou hast sent me” (St. John xvii. 22, 23). Here Christ says that His followers will be ONE, just as He and the Father are One. Christ could be no clearer! God the Father and God the Son are One and the same God. They do not dispute over doctrines. They are of one mind. They believe the exact same things. Believers must be likewise: of one mind.

(continued)
 
Finally,

“For I am the Lord, and I change not,” (Malachias iii. 6) and in the New Testament: “Jesus Christ, yesterday, and today; and the same for ever” (Hebrews xiii. 8). God does NOT change. He does not change his doctrines. The Catholic Church is the only Church that has never changed Her doctrines and beliefs. She has been around since the first century. She was founded by Christ. She alone is the true Church, outside of which no one is saved, as Christ Himself asserted (St. Matthew xii. 30): “He that is not with me, is against me: and he that gathereth not with me, scattereth.”

The Bible is absolutely clear that what a person believes dictates whether or not he is saved. In the words of our Lord: “He who believeth not shall be condemned”. Those who do not profess all the Church teaches and Her infallible authority shall be condemned. Just read the teachings of the Popes and the Fathers I put above.

Moreover, Christ instructs in this area even further (Mt. 18. 15-19): “But if thy brother shall offend against thee, go, and rebuke him between thee and him alone. If he shall hear thee, thou shalt gain thy brother. And if he will not hear thee, take with thee one or two more: that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may stand. And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican. Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven; and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven.”

Christ is clear: those who will not hear the Church are reprobate, aliens to salvation. And He affirms this in His next breath: “whatsoever you shall bind upon the earth, shall be bound in heaven.” The Holy Church has absolutely BOUND that no one whosoever can be saved outside the Roman Catholic Church.

In the words of our Lord to His Apostles: “He that heareth you, heareth me; and he that despiseth you, despiseth me; and he that despiseth me, despiseth him that sent me” (Lk. 10.16).

Those who refuse to listen to the Apostles appointed by Christ (Bishops of the Catholic Church), despise Him, according to His own words. They are without salvation.
 
CCC 818 “However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.”
 
LOL…

the one CCC verse, quoting a fallible statement (according to Paul VI, who personally added a note saying LG was not infallible) TRUMPS 3 infallible declarations of the Church, dozens of quotes from Popes throughout the history of the Church, dozens of quotes from the Fathers of the Church, and 20 Bible verses… that is absurd.
 
My Grandfather studied in the seminary for 7 years to be a priest so he was very knowlegable the Catholic religion. He taught me that if people were never taught the truth or exposed to the truth, they were not held accountable and could go to heaven. When I was little I asked such questions as “what about indians” etc. It’s hard for me to understand why people who were never exposed to the truth or never had that information available would be held accountable for not being in the Catholic Church. Can somebody please clarify this for me?
 
Jesus said I am the truth,the way and the life. Jesus now sits in the throne room .He will make all judgements on who will be saved and who will not.I think its about time we stop playing God. :eek: God bless.
 
Paris, I think that you could easily become confused and misunderstand what is being said here. With all due respect I think it would be very beneficial to see what the Catechism says on this subject:

“Outside the Church there is no salvation”

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337
 
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Brad:
It is a sure indicator that the Catholic Church is the Body of Christ:

Matthew 10:22 (New American Standard Bible)

22"(A)You will be hated by all because of My name, but (B)it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved.

There are better translations but the bottom line is Jesus Christ and His Church will be hated. That is why the door is narrow.
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I am not sure that I would agree with this entirely since Mormans, JWs, and Baptists could say the same thing. I think that the people who trust in Christ and live according to the moral standards set forth in Scripture are all hated, not just one denomination or tradition. Would you agree?
 
So if Protestants or whatever are comfortable with their teaching plus do what Christ said, they’re still condemned then? I’m taking it like that.:confused: No doubt then, the CC IS THE TRUE Church and no matter if you obey what the Bible says, etc. follow Christ’s teachings, etc. you’re still condemned if you don’t join the CC? :confused:
 
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martino:
Paris, I think that you could easily become confused and misunderstand what is being said here. With all due respect I think it would be very beneficial to see what the Catechism says on this subject:

“Outside the Church there is no salvation”

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337
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This makes a lot more sense. Thanks for clearing that up.
 
Paris Blues:
So if Protestants or whatever are comfortable with their teaching plus do what Christ said, they’re still condemned then? I’m taking it like that.:confused: No doubt then, the CC IS THE TRUE Church and no matter if you obey what the Bible says, etc. follow Christ’s teachings, etc. you’re still condemned if you don’t join the CC? :confused:
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Yes, that’s right: unless a person joind the Catholic Church, no matter how good he thinks himself or appears to others, he cannot be saved. You ask if a person who follows Christ’s teaching outside the Church can be saved: NO, he cannot, because to be outside the Church is to reject Christ’s teaching: “And I say to thee: thou art Peter and upon this rock I will build my church.” Those who refuse to enter or remain in the only Church that Christ founded necessarily reject this teaching of Christ.

St. Augustine explains: “Whosoever is separated from the Catholic Church, however praiseworthy his life may be in his own opinion, he shall for this single reason: that he is at the same time separated from the unity of Christ, not see life, but the wrath of God shall abideth on him. In the Catholic Church, there are both good and bad, but those who are separated from her cannot be good. For, though the conversation of some of them appears commendable, their very separation from the Church makes them bad according to Our Savior: ‘He who is not with Me, is against Me’.”
 
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anjel13:
This makes a lot more sense. Thanks for clearing that up.
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The quotes in the CCC contradict the teaching of the Church. The Church infallibly said: absolutely NO ONE outside the Church can be saved. Nothing can change what is infallibly defined. The quotes in the CCC are not infallible. In fact, they contradict what the Church teaches infallibly.
 
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