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Georgia
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I grew up in a fundamentalist church that to this day strongly opposes any use of alcohol. It never made any sense to me at all, especially in the light of stories in the Bible. A friend once told me that many people substitute personal feelings for sound religious doctrine. I think this is such a case.
Long before I crossed the Tiber, I was in a house that was under construction. There was a set of set of doors that appeared to be of a closet. The man opened the doors to show that they hid a bar, something he could conceal when people affiliated with his church were at the house. Such was the double life we led.
We were taught that the miracle of turning water into wine was really turning water into grape juice, never mind some other indicators in that story. It seemed to me that anything that could be fun was immediately suspect. Movies were all bad; television was evil; dancing was a path to Hell; rock music was of Satan, etc. Maybe it was something to give the elders power over the church members or maybe they really felt threatened by those things. I never had the gift of understanding the logic of making normal things evil. The abuse of those things, yes, but not moderation.
Long before I crossed the Tiber, I was in a house that was under construction. There was a set of set of doors that appeared to be of a closet. The man opened the doors to show that they hid a bar, something he could conceal when people affiliated with his church were at the house. Such was the double life we led.
We were taught that the miracle of turning water into wine was really turning water into grape juice, never mind some other indicators in that story. It seemed to me that anything that could be fun was immediately suspect. Movies were all bad; television was evil; dancing was a path to Hell; rock music was of Satan, etc. Maybe it was something to give the elders power over the church members or maybe they really felt threatened by those things. I never had the gift of understanding the logic of making normal things evil. The abuse of those things, yes, but not moderation.
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ChristianKnight
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Your post was stupid. We are scared we might like it?
I have drank wine, I have drank just about everything they got here, yet I am a protestant…
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Bill_Pick
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AMEN
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reteeks21
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Very mature of you. I would go down to your level, but that WOULD make me “stupid”. All I was saying that some protestants who disagree with drinking may see it as a control issue. Things that people are unsure of, or un-learned in are scarey, therefore they try and control its existence or effects. I never said or implied anything about liking it. I’m a protestant too, and I enjoy a good drink, but I do know some who refuse it because of their fear of it. Any honest person knows that when some people fear things they try and control them. If that’s stupid, so be it,Your post was stupid. We are scared we might like it?
I have drank wine, I have drank just about everything they got here, yet I am a protestant…
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ChristianKnight
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haha, be the better man
I do not see what is so scary about drinking. Usually the worst that can happen is a terrible hangover, although I do know some choke to death after vomiting from a bad night.
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reteeks21
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If I am pitted against you, I obviously won’t have to try. Why would you even want to say something like that in the first place? It’s ignorant and rude.haha, be the better man
I do not see what is so scary about drinking. Usually the worst that can happen is a terrible hangover, although I do know some choke to death after vomiting from a bad night.
I never said there was anything bad with drinking. You obviously can’t read.
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ChristianKnight
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Say what?
Yes, I can’t read, thats why I love reading history books
.Sorry, I am in a bad mood, and personally don’t care about being nice atm.
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reteeks21
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Well, if you read everything I wrote you would notice that I never said I disagreed with drinking. I was speaking about people who look at drinking as evil, and therefore act out of fear when it comes to drinking. Being in a bad mood is fine, but being rude to other people due to your state of mind isn’t called for. There are enough people on here who do that; we don’t need another one.Say what?
Yes, I can’t read, thats why I love reading history books
Sorry, I am in a bad mood, and personally don’t care about being nice atm.
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ChristianKnight
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reteeks21
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Good idea
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grampben
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Presbyterian’s don’t see it as merely symbolic though, Calvin talked of the spiritual presence. I suppose it depends on your denomination though
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dzheremi
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OK, well, in the Church I grew up in, we did not learn anything about the “spiritual presence” (is this another way of talking about the Real Presence? I have never heard this term), so no one else saw it as strange that we used grape juice, because it was taken to be merely symbolic. Maybe this is not what the Presbyterian Church teaches, but this was the answer I got from my church when I asked why they were serving us grape juice. 
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grampben
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It’s not real presence and it’s not memorialism. Is a wikipedia article ok for you? I generally find wikipedia good for theological articles.OK, well, in the Church I grew up in, we did not learn anything about the “spiritual presence” (is this another way of talking about the Real Presence? I have never heard this term), so no one else saw it as strange that we used grape juice, because it was taken to be merely symbolic. Maybe this is not what the Presbyterian Church teaches, but this was the answer I got from my church when I asked why they were serving us grape juice.
Here is the article showing calvin’s views:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_presence#Reformed_.28Calvinist.2C_Presbyterian.2C_most_United_churches.29_-.22Real_Presence.22_as.22pneumatic_presence.22
However, not all presbyterian churches believe the same thing. My denomination subscribes to the Westminster Confession of Faith.
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ellammcg
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What does umk stand for?
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ChristianKnight
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um k.
I don’t know how you would explain, umk.
Example of its use:
“Hey, I am going to the bar, wana come?” “Nah” “umk”
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dzheremi
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Ah, okay. Thanks for the information. I think why I never heard about this until now might be summed up in this bolded part from that wikipedia article:
"Some Protestant groups see Communion (also called the Lord’s Supper or the Lord’s Table) as merely a symbolic meal, a basic memorial of the Last Supper and the Passion, which is done by the ordinance of Jesus, but in which nothing miraculous occurs. This view is known as the Zwinglian view, after Huldrych Zwingli, a Swiss leader during the Reformation.
This perspective is commonly associated with Baptists and many other Evangelicals.** It is a perspective not uncommon “in the pews” (that is, among lay members) of some Reformed churches, even among those whose official doctrines are more in accord with the Calvinist spiritual real presence discussed above.** In the Anglican Communion, it is taught in the Diocese of Sydney, but rejected by most other Anglicans."
It is likely that my particular church was among those who perhaps did not believe or know that they were supposed to inform their laity of this “spiritual presence” business. This is the first I’ve heard of it, anyway.
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Snow
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How about putting horseshoes on Dalmations?
What on earth are you talking about - this is a thread about alcohol.
If you believe that Christ, the omnipotent God used to get a buzz on, okay, that’s what you believe. Myself - it seems not particularly Godlike.
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Snow
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Besides which, the Bible is very clear that Jesus did not have a glass of wine. See Luke 1.
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Walden
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Luke 1 didn’t mention anything about wine. Wine is an integral part of the Passover Seder meal.
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