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Vatican2Rocks
Guest
maybe you’re not a good conversationalist yet.
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EasterJoy
Guest
“…do you reject the glamour of evil…?”
glam·our /ˈglæmər/
noun
- the quality of fascinating, alluring, or attracting, especially by a combination of charm and good looks.
- excitement, adventure, and unusual activity: the glamour of being an explorer.
- magic or enchantment; spell; witchery
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Norseman82
Guest
Ironically, I just saw this on MSN:
living.msn.com/love-relationships/the-heart-beat-blog-post?post=8d879c9c-c136-431c-9658-c5b7be627f9c
On another note - one that I have posted before, but is appropriate repeating for this thread - when the last lady I dated broke up with me to enter a religious community, she told me that was the risk you took in dating a religious girl and that if I wanted to get married I should look for a “bad girl” (and before anyone jumps over me, those were HER words, not mine). To this day I am still haunted by those words.
living.msn.com/love-relationships/the-heart-beat-blog-post?post=8d879c9c-c136-431c-9658-c5b7be627f9c
On another note - one that I have posted before, but is appropriate repeating for this thread - when the last lady I dated broke up with me to enter a religious community, she told me that was the risk you took in dating a religious girl and that if I wanted to get married I should look for a “bad girl” (and before anyone jumps over me, those were HER words, not mine). To this day I am still haunted by those words.
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chevalier
Guest
I see some value in the concept of “nice” as in a basic manner of interaction with others, marked by kindness and cooperation and opposite to being a jerk or an adversarial or crude or otherwise offensive manner. On the other hand there can be some problems with such a categorisation, primarily because of how subjective it is and how mixed up it can get with simply being soft (or even a doormat).
Yes, of course, but that doesn’t somehow invalidate the discussion we’re having here. A woman being or not being into a certain type of men (in this case the stereotypical “bad guys”, without insisting on any specific, narrow definition) is very much within the boundaries of this discussion.
True but that’s beside the point. Nobody says there is an obligation to accept dating invitations from men classified as ‘nice’ or ‘not bad boys’, nor even an obligation to avoid ‘bad guys’. Commenting on the subject, even negatively, doesn’t yet amount to a proposition of rights or obligations.
Now we’re talking!
(j/k)Maybe but maybe he’s average (or better) at that and wants someone who’s also average (or better).
Quite a sense of entitlement have we!
I’ve ‘known’ that a couple of times, you know.
IMHO that can be true, it’s just that there’s not enough data to ascertain yes or no. One can’t make such a claim out of thin air (not in the least because of the amount of predestination weaved into it) but on the other hand one can’t base any argument on a premise that God doesn’t care sufficiently for a single human being since God cares infinitely, and is concerned, and is totally capable of addressing each of billions of humans individually (something we may have trouble imagining). Therefore the way I see it there’s a stale-mate.
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Vatican2Rocks
Guest
the problem with these two studies is that the researchers defined nice guys and bad boys for the women—not the women.
a guy putting on an act of the bad boy who doesn’t look attractive to me wouldn’t get my attention on three fronts: looks, the way he dresses, and the way he talks.
a guy putting on act of the nice guy who doesn’t look attractive to me still wouldn’t get my attention because of looks, the way he dresses, the way he talks.
well, getting my attention is probably not the right nuance but you get the picture…he ain’t getting any.
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Vatican2Rocks
Guest
Maybe but maybe he’s average (or better) at that and wants someone who’s also average (or better).
True
Quite a sense of entitlement have we!
I’ve ‘known’ that a couple of times, you know.
lol
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Nec5
Guest
Don’t hate the player. Hate the game.
And yeah, I’m joking.
A friend of mine (married woman) once told me:
“We don’t even know what we want. So why do men waste time trying figure out what we want when we don’t even know?”
It’s complicated, but I’m going to invoke Freud and argue that most women do indeed seek out some version of their father.
And yeah, I’m joking.
A friend of mine (married woman) once told me:
“We don’t even know what we want. So why do men waste time trying figure out what we want when we don’t even know?”
It’s complicated, but I’m going to invoke Freud and argue that most women do indeed seek out some version of their father.
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Vatican2Rocks
Guest
i think people tend to seek out some version of their mother or the most loved member of their family, could even be a sibling type.
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mellowcalico
Guest
You know, part of the problem might be that a lot of women turn down a man’s advances by saying, “You are a nice guy but…”
I think maybe some men think that they are being turned down for being “nice” when the woman is really just trying to soften the message that she’s not interested.
I think maybe some men think that they are being turned down for being “nice” when the woman is really just trying to soften the message that she’s not interested.
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Crescentinus
Guest
That is possible, and a bit weirder than the whole “let’s just be friends” line.
At least the latter is not vague.
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E_7
Guest
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joshvanrad
Guest
It’s a societal problem from years of breeding that has lacked proper upbringing.
I agree with the op, but I would add that it doesn’t happen all the time. It is more of the rule than the exception though.
Guys are losing the ability to stand up for themselves. Guys are not being the good solid confident platform for women to align themselves to. They are not acting as “spiritual leaders to a domestic church”. Be an alpha. Be strong. Align yourself with God, make it known, and she will align herself to you.
Women are becoming too individualistic and trying to become the “typical alpha male” (with varying degrees, of course). Now guys have to compete with women who are only attracted to guys that are MORE alpha than they are. Women want the alpha of the alphas, which are generally not the nicest guys.
I say forget about it and just become a priest! Nothing against all of the wonderful, talented, and beautiful women… but God’s church is a hard spouse to compete with.
Ite in pace,
Joshua C.
I agree with the op, but I would add that it doesn’t happen all the time. It is more of the rule than the exception though.
Guys are losing the ability to stand up for themselves. Guys are not being the good solid confident platform for women to align themselves to. They are not acting as “spiritual leaders to a domestic church”. Be an alpha. Be strong. Align yourself with God, make it known, and she will align herself to you.
Women are becoming too individualistic and trying to become the “typical alpha male” (with varying degrees, of course). Now guys have to compete with women who are only attracted to guys that are MORE alpha than they are. Women want the alpha of the alphas, which are generally not the nicest guys.
I say forget about it and just become a priest! Nothing against all of the wonderful, talented, and beautiful women… but God’s church is a hard spouse to compete with.
Ite in pace,
Joshua C.
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E_7
Guest
hmmm imagine a man who looks like a “bad boy” but he’s really a God-loving man, a practicing Roman Catholic…You know what I mean.
The jerks, bullies, rowdy, smooth talkin’ ones never want for women hanging all over them.
While the nice guys are sitting there thinking “what the heck, I thought girls wanted nice guys.” :doh2:
C’mon girls, why do you go for them?
with strong moral values…
or would you go for a man who looks nice but he’s not a God-loving man? :tsktsk:
It’s rare to meet a man who looks nice and is a God-loving man, and if you do meet him, he’s already taken! (or he’s physically unattractive…no offense!!)
In my fantasy, I have Tasuku Kurosaki! (from Dengeki Daisy manga)
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Crescentinus
Guest
Honestly, here’s my two cents.
I want to date an assertive woman (in addition to her being a good, Catholic, intelligent and wholesome woman), but I’ll never date a female alpha again. I feel that when I am in a romantic relationship with an alpha, there will be the clash of personalities. A clash which is not only inevitable, but would end the romantic relationship rather badly for both sides.
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Havard
Guest
I don’t know about what people look like here, but… have you been introduced to Lost Wanderer?hmmm imagine a man who looks like a “bad boy” but he’s really a God-loving man, a practicing Roman Catholic…
or would you go for a man who looks nice but he’s not a God-loving man? :tsktsk:
It’s rare to meet a man who looks nice and is a God-loving man, and if you do meet him, he’s already taken! (or he’s physically unattractive…no offense!!)
In my fantasy, I have Tasuku Kurosaki! (from Dengeki Daisy manga)
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JimG
Guest
I don’t quite understand your comment with respect to the Karl Keating article. The point of it was that marriage has to be based on love, not on infatuation, emotion or trying to find an imagined ideal spouse with all the correct qualities. Emotion, appearance, and romance–all of those things enter into courtship, and once one decides that he will love this woman for a lifetime, they are enhanced, not forgotten. But for marriage to work, an act of will is required, a lifetime commitment, and that enables both spouses to rest in the surety of love.
Courtship threads so often seem to settle on a discussion of things which are less important in the long run. Men and women have been marrying for several thousand years, often with the marriages arranged by parents. Did those marriages fare worse than our current 50% divorce rate? I don’t think so. Are young people better at selecting mates for themselves than their parents were at selecting for them? I don’t know. Does concentrating too much on non-essential make things worse? Just some things I think about.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
I’m not too sure what an “alpha female” is, precisely, or the degree to which a hard-edged woman’s better self can be summoned from within a shell largely created by a commercial world.
But I do like a more assertive female. That’s part of the reason why I married a yankee woman, though I’m a southerner myself by accent, background and culture. I’ll never forget how wonderful they seemed when I went into yankeeland for college. Straightforward, largely honest, pretty sure of themselves, plain spoken, never pretending to be weak or incompetent.
Now, I’ll admit, they were midwestern yankees. I did have the obligatory rich eastern girlfriend back in grad school, (think “Gatsby”) and that was an entirely different experience.
But back on topic, I guess I could have been described as a “bad boy” and many of my peers thought of me that way. But some young women, (and especially my wife) saw through all of that to a better self.
Let’s face it, all men and boys are savages by nature. If women disappeared from the earth, we would all be Huns. It is only because of women that we are ever better than that. Some of us grow out of it, and some of us don’t. But women shape us a lot and, truth be told, I think a lot of women like at least some element of Hun-like nature in a man, if she thinks she can shape the Hun into a strong husband and father.
Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn’t.
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Crescentinus
Guest
I’m referring to those women are too controlling and manipulative. My first ex-girlfriend was like that and it bothered me. Whenever I was with her, I felt uneasy. Then again, she confessed to me so that she can use me. I let her do that out of mere desperation. That, was truly embarrassing.
My point is, if a woman wants to mold me because she cares about my well-being, I’d say go for it. But, if it’s to assert her false sense of femininity and/or trying to control me, forget it.
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nickybr38
Guest
I have dated ONE bad boy in my life. It didn’t last long. Yes, the take charge attitude and confidence was attractive but his complete lack of respect was annoying.
All the other men I have dated have been nice guys.
So I have no idea what you’re talking about.
All the other men I have dated have been nice guys.
So I have no idea what you’re talking about.
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Pfaffenhoffen
Guest
I am catching the disccussion here.
The Bad Boy is a Romantic Archetype.
Before, in Classicism, the Good Boy was the Good Boy and the Bad Boy was the Bad Boy. No on wanted bay boys, savages.
After Romanticism till the present day, the paradygm reverted. To be Good is bad and to be a BAd Boy is to be good.
Michael Jackson, not necessarily the image of a Bad Boy, sang: “I am bad, bad, bad,…” I do not know how many times. He did not look bad but to be good he had to pretend to be bad. Now imagine him singing: “I am good, good, good…”. It would be a laughing matter.
Now what Romanticism brought? Brought the image of the outsider, the gangster, the outlaw, the wanderer, the fellow who was not understood by society, the fellow who had soooooo muuuuuuch to give to society but society did not understand hi. So he had to go away, away, away…
They were the cowboys, the fellow who shoot so many but he was a victim of society for once he was bullied as a child for a fellow student threw a ball to his head, so he was traumatized for life, the mother did not understand his pain, the father non plus, none, only some sweet blue eyes which unwrapped him but…he had to go away and fall under a rain of bullets.
RIP.
So is the image of the romantic dreamer unadappted to society who has much to give and can give nothing for there is no connection with him with society.
Present day Society descends directly from the romantic times…
The Bad Boy is a Romantic Archetype.
Before, in Classicism, the Good Boy was the Good Boy and the Bad Boy was the Bad Boy. No on wanted bay boys, savages.
After Romanticism till the present day, the paradygm reverted. To be Good is bad and to be a BAd Boy is to be good.
Michael Jackson, not necessarily the image of a Bad Boy, sang: “I am bad, bad, bad,…” I do not know how many times. He did not look bad but to be good he had to pretend to be bad. Now imagine him singing: “I am good, good, good…”. It would be a laughing matter.
Now what Romanticism brought? Brought the image of the outsider, the gangster, the outlaw, the wanderer, the fellow who was not understood by society, the fellow who had soooooo muuuuuuch to give to society but society did not understand hi. So he had to go away, away, away…
They were the cowboys, the fellow who shoot so many but he was a victim of society for once he was bullied as a child for a fellow student threw a ball to his head, so he was traumatized for life, the mother did not understand his pain, the father non plus, none, only some sweet blue eyes which unwrapped him but…he had to go away and fall under a rain of bullets.
RIP.
So is the image of the romantic dreamer unadappted to society who has much to give and can give nothing for there is no connection with him with society.
Present day Society descends directly from the romantic times…
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