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E_7
Guest
Nope. Why? getting curiousI don’t know about what people look like here, but… have you been introduced to Lost Wanderer?
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perfect setup.
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catholicgamer
Guest
There is no such thing as an human alpha female…just as there is no such thing as an alpha female in any species. We have words for human females who attempt to exhibit alpha male traits, but they are not charitable words to use in company such as CAF.
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Samson01
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nickybr38
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joshvanrad
Guest
Society along with the feminist movement has begun to tell women “You don’t need men! You are beautiful and strong and nothing should stop you from doing anything a man can do!” because, of course, deception is best used when it is laced with truth.
Society has begun to form women into things that really do resemble a typical alpha male. Thus, the alpha female was born.
Ite in pace,
Joshua C.
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catholicgamer
Guest
Simply because when they try, they are attempting to be a man…which is biologically incoherent.
Feminism is a perfect example of this attempt to be “more like men”. The “empowered” women, etc, etc.
Women have their own gifts, they don’t need to attempt to emulate men’s gifts…it usually does not end well for either.
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mellowcalico
Guest
Sure there are alpha females in other animals: elephant matriarchs for example… or female alpha wolves (on the male and female alphas of a pack mate–but to be fair, that’s an “alpha pair”).
My impression of what people mean by an alpha female in humans is a woman who is a leader, confident, and maybe obstinate and conceited. She’s probably the type of woman you find leading a country or a corporate boardroom… in a way, more male-like than a traditional nurturer. Kind of like a Margaret Thatcher or Nancy Pelosi type of woman. Or maybe a Thatcher or Pelosi wannabe.
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sw85
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Basically this. A major problem is that men are conditioned from a young age to believe that women want something vastly different than what women actually want. When they mold themselves to this belief and then get no women, they reach the conclusion either that women are mysterious (“I just don’t understand them!”) or that they are silly (i.e., women don’t know what they want).It’s partially because of their confidence and boldness, however fake or misplaced it may be. The take-charge kind of attitude is attractive. Also, many of these guys know exactly what a woman wants to hear and will tell her. It takes some of us longer than others to wise up to their act, especially when we’ve already fallen for them.
Most women I know have at least one “bad boy” involved in their past in some way, whether it was serious involvement or just a pattern of being attracted to them. So, look for the girls who have already realized that they don’t want that. They are out there. And when you find one, take on the confidence of a “bad boy” without being a jerk.
Really, it’s not complicated. (Heterosexual) women want men. So act like a man.
Often women are attracted to aggressive, belligerent numbskulls because this is the closest modern men get to manliness. Also because it’s a particularly obvious and in your face kind of masculinity. By contrast “nice guys” are usually not only nice (and many of them, in my experience, are not all that nice – anyone who goes out of his way to advertise what a nice guy he is is probably just a bit of an idiot) but also weak-willed, boring, oversensitive, and inoffensive. Pfeh. It’s not the niceness they’re not attracted to, and it’s not the badness they are attracted to; it’s lack of manliness in the former case and the abundance of manliness in the latter.
When I realized all this, I began to broaden my scope on what I regarded as manliness. I cannot compete up with the layabout alpha males of my generation and I know it, so there is no point in trying. But then, the layabout alpha males of my generation are pretty historically anomalous. Not only that, they are not even particularly manly by historical standard; there are plenty of models of manliness from previous generations who are both manly and virtuous. Think of Scottish warrior-poets, who wooed their wives and made love to them and then went out and beheaded Englishmen on a battlefield. The numbskull men of my generation are likely to regard poets as gay, but they would never dare utter such a sentiment to someone like the Earl of Surrey, who would bury a harpoon in his thorax before he could get another word out. That’s the model of manliness I’ve endeavored to live up to: the warrior-thinker-poet-king. Gentle to those he loves, dangerous to everyone else.
There’s a lot of little ways to cultivate this attitude. I managed it. Three years ago I was a sissy beta male. Now, not so much. I feel different. I sleep better. I’m physically healthier. I’m much happier. My girlfriend is much happier than the girlfriends I had back then. It works, because it corresponds to human nature in a real and meaningful way.
It’s not entirely true there are no alpha females. Spotted hyenas, I believe, have them. They are actually larger and more powerful than their male counterparts. Their packs are led by them and, incidentally, they look very much like how packs of modern women behave in the absence of a strong male presence, which is to say it looks extremely, extremely unpleasant.
I think what he means is better understood in terms of essentialism. The “alpha female” is a perversion of femininity; the “alpha male” is a fulfillment of masculinity. Compare spotted hyenas to another animal of the plains – the lion, a highly patriarchal animal society. Which is more obviously noble? The lions, duh.
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catholicgamer
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The female matriarch still have to submit to the alpha male…in both the wolf and the elephant. But, show me one case where the female wolf dominates the alpha male (…all things being equal…) and I’ll retract my point.
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joshvanrad
Guest
This alpha female alpha male debate is just getting out of hand now.
It’s simple. Men are meant to be the leaders of the domestic church (among other things). We have faltered in our jobs. Women have become empowered with the feminist movement. Some women want to become alphas.
That’s it. That is all I was trying to get at.
It’s simple. Men are meant to be the leaders of the domestic church (among other things). We have faltered in our jobs. Women have become empowered with the feminist movement. Some women want to become alphas.
That’s it. That is all I was trying to get at.
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joshvanrad
Guest
Humans are not wolves or elephants.
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mellowcalico
Guest
You are right with wolves… but not with elephants. The male doesn’t live in the group and the matriarch chases away unwanted males.
But we aren’t elephants
For what it’s worth, I would never want to be an alpha female. To me, it feels unnatural and not my cup of tea. I think most women are like this too. The alpha females are the outliers and rare.
I wonder if men are attracted to alpha females because they are harder to get? Just an idea. Men like to chase I think and an alpha female is kind of the ultimate chase. It might also explain what so called nice girls don’t get attention as much.
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mellowcalico
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Sorry about that. I just found the topic of alpha females interesting.
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Havard
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There are alpha females, but they are rare. I’ve dated women who I thought were alpha’s but they turned out to have beta traits… despite all their boldness and strength, they still wanted a man to take charge. I am personally attracted to women with a mix; I am neither attracted to extremely dominant nor extremely submissive women.
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nickybr38
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Okay guys.
When a woman is stepping out and being assertive. When she takes control. She’s not necessarily emulating male characteristics, nor does she need to.
In my experience mothers are the most fierce females there are. They are aggressively protective of their children and WILL take control from ANY man who tries to harm an innocent child. These mothers are NOT emulating men when they behave in this way and they ARE being alphas in those situations. You give me a man who is not afraid of his mother and I’ll give you a mother who wasn’t an alpha but I guarantee most mothers *are *alpha females. Maybe ONLY when it comes to their children but they are fully capable of taking the reins and making the male submit.
In some situations women don’t need to be men to be alphas. They simply need something worth protecting.
When a woman is stepping out and being assertive. When she takes control. She’s not necessarily emulating male characteristics, nor does she need to.
In my experience mothers are the most fierce females there are. They are aggressively protective of their children and WILL take control from ANY man who tries to harm an innocent child. These mothers are NOT emulating men when they behave in this way and they ARE being alphas in those situations. You give me a man who is not afraid of his mother and I’ll give you a mother who wasn’t an alpha but I guarantee most mothers *are *alpha females. Maybe ONLY when it comes to their children but they are fully capable of taking the reins and making the male submit.
In some situations women don’t need to be men to be alphas. They simply need something worth protecting.
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nickybr38
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I have yet to meet a man who wasn’t a gamma. Most men I know like the illusion of control but prefer if the woman is the one in control. I can only assume these men had alpha mothers.
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Havard
Guest
I’m getting the sense that we have different definitions for these types. Here are mine:I have yet to meet a man who wasn’t a gamma. Most men I know like the illusion of control but prefer if the woman is the one in control. I can only assume these men had alpha mothers.
An alpha personality is one that naturally prefers to be in charge, and become easily frustrated when given a supporting role.
A beta personality is one that naturally prefers to be in a supporting role, and become easily frustrated when given a leadership role.
A gamma naturally likes both leading and supporting. If they are pragmatic about things, they can be the most successful type in social groups.
An omega is essentially a non-conformist, they like neither role, and have the most difficulty operating in groups.
Under my definitions, if you’ve never met male alpha’s, beta’s or omega’s… we must be living on different planets. Also, men who don’t want to be in control are not gammas under my definitions, they’re betas. I don’t know what having alpha mothers has to do with beta men.
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Ridgerunner
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It’s interesting to read the portraits of the male charcters in Michener’s “Poland”. Yes, there are skunks among them. But there are also very “manly” men; the kind who throw themselves into seemingly hopeless battles to defend home and hearth and, well, just because it’s right to do it.
And wasn’t it the ancient Irish Fian which, to be a member, one had to do such things as accurately throw a spear with either hand, run up the axle of one’s chariot and back with the horses in full gallop, fight off nine warriors with a hazel stick and to recite without flaw the revered poems of the time?
And, of course, there was the “Renaissance Man” ideal. The man who was, at once, a warrior, a statesman, an artist, a poet and (yes) a charmer.
We seem a bit gray compared to those portraits. But such characters are not unworthy of emulation for modern man.
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sw85
Guest
Of course. A woman who would not go to great lengths to protect her own, in my book, is substantially unwomanly and unfeminine.
Which perhaps suggests a useful way for understanding what we mean by “alpha female” – not so much a woman who takes control, but who takes control where it isn’t warranted or appropriate; conversely, one who takes control in ways that are either irrelevant to or contrary to her femininity.
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