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ringil
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This is quite an insightful post. THanks!
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Crescentinus
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GraceDK
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Grace, I don’t want to undermine the general truth in what you’re saying but please consider this: what if the man isn’t actually interested? After all please note that he couldn’t be active with a few Catholic ladies, he can only pursue one woman. From my experience women tend to accuse men of being passive when those men are simply not interested.
Thats totally fine… but what I experience is that for every halfway decent normal Catholic man, there are many Catholic girls… I mean the men cannot be uninterested in all women. I truly think they just dont know how to pursue a lady, or maybe the internet/entertainment culture has made it easier for them to sit on their but and be entertained until they are over 40 years old, where they suddenly think, hey maybe I should find a wife.
You mention internet. I don’t think people on the internetdating should take rejection or passivity too personally. Its an artificial way to get aquainted anyway. The times where I have been on internetdating I had bad experiences. The men were either too old and ignored the fact that I wrote I wish for a man my own age, or they turned out to be really odd.
From my own experience farther into a relationship, passivity occurs when there are problems. If future looks hazy, you’re less inclined to pursue. When even the present looks hazy, things are worse still.
Of course.
Thank you for the compliment.
Its not a compliment… a man may be smart while sitting behind the screen, but if he is socially uable to socialize then he is not smart in that area, and he should practice. Some people simply believe they are the odd ones out… but socializing can be learned, even in adult age.
Look, I don’t want to argumentative and I’d hate for you to develop the impression that I simply want to contradict you, but what you say above has been a recurring source of distress for me with the ladies. It happens time after time.
Really? Even with women who go to Mass regularly? Because thats what I am talking about. I dont expect men of the world to speak or think properly,. but when some perverse or immature nonsense comes out of a Catholic man, its really dissapointing.
I think everybody has them, man or woman no matter. We’re inclined to look for people who don’t have any of such issues but the truth is that everybody does have some. I can’t help recalling an ecclesiastic judge who noted that the Catholic standard of normalcy admitted of moderate disorders.(That was a canon 1095 context.)
Yep, everyone has a neurosis… But the ones I met happend to be so wounded that they could hardly take care of themselves, let alone a wife and a family.
This isn’t really top quality advice but for what it’s worth, try to avoid missing potentially good opportunities due to a bad timing or bad mood or similar reasons. As in, if a man seems to be interested and doesn’t exhibit immediate deal-breakers, don’t be deterred much by circumstances, such as that the scenery isn’t really proper, timing isn’t ideal, your mood isn’t good etc. If he endeavours to talk, talk to him. If he offers (courteously) to meet you, meet him.
**Ehhh, I don’t know what you are talking about. I would never send away a good man because I was in a bad mood, bad timing or things like that.
Look Im not just referring to my own lack of a partner but the cool Catholic women I see around me who are growing past childbearing years because there either arent any men or the men don’t ever make a move to win the heart of the lady. And yes, men need to make the first moves often, especially with good Catholic ladies who are traditional in their thinking. I personally have only ever been able to love a man after he first exposed his feelings.
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Feel for you, Grace. Wish you luck!
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EasterJoy
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No matter how many or how big the ponds you think you are in charge of, I wouldn’t be too impressed until I see you with your mother, with waitresses, and with your friends. Those three situations say volumes about what kind of man an “alpha” really is.Too bad, I’m an emperor.
I could expand my domains to include their ponds.
Better a dry crust with peace than a house full of feasting with strife. Prov. 17:1
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Crescentinus
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chevalier
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My point was that what women saw as passivity or fickleness in a man was sometimes something different from a man’s perspective, including that a man judged to be passive might in fact simply not have been interested.
Guess my attempt at a joke failed. Oh well. No one’s jokes deliver 100% of the time.
With the more churched ones it tends not to be perverse, while it can be odd. I guess people have a tendency to become odd when they spend too much time alone.
Yeah, that hardly makes one ready for marriage.
I’m talking about the fact that, from a man’s perspective, one hits a lot of walls when trying to make a meeting happen and meeting up is basically the only way of making things happen, as in getting to know each other and developing a relationship. Granted, it may be that those women are not interested, but on the other hand the same women shouldn’t really be complaining about men being passive.
The first move problem I mentioned wasn’t the usual situation but specifically some exceptions. For example, when I teach a course or give a lecture for people my age (so I’m obviously not a 40-ish lecturer talking to adolescents, which would bring a whole host of other issues on the plate), I can’t start chatting up a student, no matter how Catholic, beautiful, smart or otherwise captivating she seemed. I just simply cannot approach her unless I have a valid educational reason and no ulterior motive. On the other hand, she wouldn’t be facing the same constraints, and she could initiate a conversation and steer in a more personal direction (e.g. personal experience in the field), which I could accept or not, and if I agreed to talk about such more personal stuff, I guess I could get away with suggesting a coffee and a chat. And she certainly could. And since that meeting would be after hours, she’d eventually become free game after one or two such meetings.
Basically in such a situation a man isn’t allowed to initiate the same as in normal situations. It’s the same for many other people who are currently at work or on some kind of business involving clients or customers, e.g. if two business representatives of companies meet up for discussion, the man really couldn’t use it to chat the woman up (at least not too overtly and probably not at all if the woman didn’t allow the atmosphere to become lighter), while the woman could (any problems she’d face for that would be minor).
Same way, a male doctor would face a lot of flak if he wanted to ask a more familiar female patient out for a coffee (obviously not a total stranger), while that female patient could ask him, and a female doctor could also certainly get away with initiating some kind of acquaintance with a male patient, barring maybe some clear abuse of position.
There also some other situations in which you wouldn’t normally be supposed to go after a girl, as in sure, people wouldn’t really take it against you if you fell in love, proposed, whatever, but asking a girl out casually for a coffee would be awkward, e.g. younger sisters of friends, family members of co-workers (bosses especially), certain friends of certain family members, this is very situational. In many cases it will generally be free game when the woman shows she’s willing to talk or starts the conversation, but it would be awkward or even wrong for a man to try and attract her attention, given the particular situation.
Sorry for taking so much space but I’m too tired to write concisely today.
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EasterJoy
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Right. And what do you intend to do with their lands once you’ve conquered them?What do you mean?
I’m just in the mood to conquer their lands.
I mean that life is too short to marry some little Napoleon who thinks he knows everything and can take anyone (present company excluded, I’m sure). Oy, talk about h*** on a bun.
If you want a good holy smart woman to marry you, you need to be the best version of yourself, the version God has in mind for you to be. That is what a good holy smart woman will be happy with.
If you are the kind of fellow that a good holy smart women would only be attracted to when she suspended her brain and common sense for one of the various reasons that women have been known to suspend their brains and common sense, exactly what are you going to do when she comes to her senses?
When I was under 25, I finally decided that only 1 guy in 10 under 25 was even worth wasting any time on at all. At least 1 in 10 was never going to be worth the time (or worse), and as for the other 8, they needed what only time would give them…their time and God’s time, but not mine. Not yet.
No offense intended, but you talk as if you’re one of the eight. You need some time.
I think that a lot of young women do not figure this out. They might fall for “bad boys” more than once. Other young women do figure this out, but they might also date “bad boys”, because the chances of meeting one of the 1 in 10 who are worth dealing with long-term and finding that he is interested in something long-term is not that great. The others looking for something long-term are bad prospects at present, and therefore to be avoided because someone is going to get hurt. I know that at least some of them figure they may as well “have fun” until nature takes its course and the pickings get better, and they date “bad boys” because they are “fun” and not hard to imagine dropping. “Bad boys” also seem to be popular choices as “rebound” boyfriends. He’s doing the James Dean Loner thing, he can’t blame you for taking him at his word and letting him “free” when you’re ready to (is the thinking).
Live by the bad boy sword, die by the bad boy sword. At any rate, the older a woman gets, the less she’s likely to be interested in the “bad boy” schtick.
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joshvanrad
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It’s gettin’ real in here…
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Nec5
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Don’t bother resisting. You can’t resist Freud and the Oedipus complex. No one can.
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EasterJoy
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He’s feeling as if his mother humiliates him. It is possible that he’s being overly-dramatic, we have no idea what he’s really being required to do or to endure, but still, don’t joke around. He doesn’t need that, and it is possible that he really is in an objectively humiliating situation. Some bitter people are bitter for a reason.Don’t bother resisting. You can’t resist Freud and the Oedipus complex. No one can.
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Nec5
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He laughed at my other joke. No harm in lightening the mood. The whole dating game today really sucks if you’re a decent person. It’s absurdly hard for both sexes because of the increasingly fallen society we find ourselves in.
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Crescentinus
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What shall I do with those lands? Make those lands prosper. Bad boys cannot even try to do that. Their lands are hardly used for productive means.Right. And what do you intend to do with their lands once you’ve conquered them?
I mean that life is too short to marry some little Napoleon who thinks he knows everything and can take anyone (present company excluded, I’m sure). Oy, talk about h*** on a bun.
If you want a good holy smart woman to marry you, you need to be the best version of yourself, the version God has in mind for you to be. That is what a good holy smart woman will be happy with.
If you are the kind of fellow that a good holy smart women would only be attracted to when she suspended her brain and common sense for one of the various reasons that women have been known to suspend their brains and common sense, exactly what are you going to do when she comes to her senses?
When I was under 25, I finally decided that only 1 guy in 10 under 25 was even worth wasting any time on at all. At least 1 in 10 was never going to be worth the time (or worse), and as for the other 8, they needed what only time would give them…their time and God’s time, but not mine. Not yet.
No offense intended, but you talk as if you’re one of the eight. You need some time.
I think that a lot of young women do not figure this out. They might fall for “bad boys” more than once. Other young women do figure this out, but they might also date “bad boys”, because the chances of meeting one of the 1 in 10 who are worth dealing with long-term and finding that he is interested in something long-term is not that great. The others looking for something long-term are bad prospects at present, and therefore to be avoided because someone is going to get hurt. I know that at least some of them figure they may as well “have fun” until nature takes its course and the pickings get better, and they date “bad boys” because they are “fun” and not hard to imagine dropping. “Bad boys” also seem to be popular choices as “rebound” boyfriends. He’s doing the James Dean Loner thing, he can’t blame you for taking him at his word and letting him “free” when you’re ready to (is the thinking).
Live by the bad boy sword, die by the bad boy sword. At any rate, the older a woman gets, the less she’s likely to be interested in the “bad boy” schtick.
Napoleon!? Hardly. More like some Holy Roman emperor.
Hmmmmm, you raise a good point.
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Debora123
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Well you just have to look in the right places. Have you considered joining some type of group or something with your parish? If you’re in college, does your school have a Catholic students association?
I got very lucky. I knew my husband through family friends from our parish and school, so I knew he came from a well grounded Catholic family. Connections can go a long way. Plus, I snagged him when he was still very young (he was 19, I was 20). So I’d like to say I was also able to shape him a bit before he grew up too much and became too set in his ways.
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Crescentinus
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Looking at the right places was something that I didn’t do and I’m paying for the consequences of it. Now, I’ll try to look for that Catholic student’s association. I know that there is one on the main campus, but I am not enrolled at the main campus.
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CesarAugustus
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Horrible, just horrible…
Various people have told me similar things.
For example, that practicing Catholic girls, would be discerning religious life or in a convent already. Others have said to me, don’t pay too much attention to modesty, you can teach that person later about the topic.
Various people over here tend to assume that if you are devout, that means you are going to be a Monk or a Priest. Even in my University some people were thinking I was a Seminarian… (¿?)
Yes, that is the problem I have with that kind of advices.
Crescentinus:
I’m in a similar situation, is difficult to find practising Catholic girls in the art, and design areas, and in the anime fandom… or with the people that studies History (lots of biased books and black legend propaganda), or in various groups of people that share the interests I have.
Blessings!
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Crescentinus
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Even those who study the history of science, most of them still believe in anti-Catholic myths. They are ignorant of Catholic contributions to science. If they believe The Da Vinci Code more than a serious study on the history of science, they are ignorant and most likely gullible.Crescentinus:
I’m in a similar situation, is difficult to find practising Catholic girls in the art, and design areas, and in the anime fandom… or with the people that studies History (lots of biased books and black legend propaganda), or in various groups of people that share the interests I have.
Blessings!
It is indeed very hard to find a practicing Catholic woman who’s also a gamer, cosplayer, artist or even a foodie.
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GraceDK
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Chevalier… I think I have found the problem. You are a grown man right? I mean, I get the feeling when reading your posts that you are over the age of 35. So why are you looking for a girl? What you need is a woman, not a girl. Right?
I’ll give you a hint… people may marry people of different ages… sometimes life works out like that by coincidence. But if a group of Christian ladies see a man who deliberately as a rule chases after girls who are 7-15 years younger than him, they loose respect for him for he apparantly doesn’t have what it takes to be the equal partner of someone his own age and win her mature respect.
I know that might not fit on you… but I thought I’d throw the point out there anyway. And also, the way we speak really is quite important.
I’ve met men who were good looking and going to church. Then they start talking about “chicks” or use other such words and then you get disapointed, because their speech is not dignified.
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Lost_Wanderer
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Think of it as me trying to make a fanciful response to the ‘illusion’ comment. Basically, all I was saying was that I don’t an illusion. I want the real thing and shame on any woman (heck, any person) who tries to fool a man (or anyone else) in such a manner.
I think at this point, I’ll try to explain myself a bit more with my own fantasy analogy. Think of me as the brooding archmage/warlock/elementalist who spends most of his time either cooped up in his tower outside the city or going out on long quests. I prefer to be left alone but am not entirely opposed to visitors. All I need is a perfectly good reason as to why I’m being disturbed.
At times when I leave, people will see me followed by a young woman, a maiden even (and if you want an idea of my physical preferences, I’d like her a near-head shorter than me). To other people, she looks like a little servant faithfully following her master or a cute cleric-in-training in charge of accompanying a grumpy mage. To myself however, she’s more than that. Enough said. Anyone or anything that threatens her will find themselves reduced to less than dirt. I value her because she’s one of the few people who really make me feel that I’m a man and not just some magically powered monster.
Ironically, the girl in turn is indeed one of those meek and innocent types yet her kindness is the only thing that is capable of standing between you and getting turned into a toad (at the very least). Think of her as some sort of last-minute intercessor who makes up for my lack of mercy (and at times patience).
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joshvanrad
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EasterJoy
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I’m sure her superiors would have been thrilled to hear her say that. There’s some room for formation there, at any rate.
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