Perhaps OpenMind wouldn’t mind, answering my questions below, still unanswered.
This is not group of people at all. A fetus is not person and terminating a pregnancy has no relationship to either slavery or genocide.
Indeed women who seek abortions are being persecuted all across the country. Their lives have been made so difficult and unbearable. They have to suffer far beyond their unfortunate condition of an unwanted pregnancy because of the actions of self-appointed guardians of morality… There are no rewards in heaven for making anyone’s life difficult or making them suffer. These actions will have to be answered for on the Day of Judgment.
I realize abortion has been condemned by the Church for very long. That does not necessarily mean that it is correct or that the Christ agrees with it. In my opinion, when the Christ returns, he will correct all these misunderstandings, but those who in the meantime have made life difficult for these unfortunate women, will have to answer for their actions
I don’t know exactly, but it definitely not within the first six months after conception. When the Christ returns, he will tell us exactly when.
I know…and I ve got scales on my eyes too for many things.
You are right that the unborn baby cannot yet be part of a “group” which implies relating with others. It would be more proper to say “class” of people. You are right, terminating the life of an unborn child is related to a general lack of respect for life in those who are different, which is where it shares characteristics with slavery and genocide. Whenever we degrade the humanity of another, and use that prejudice to take their freedom and life, it is similar to slavery and genocide.
No, openmind77, these women are not “persecuted”. They are also victims of the culture of death, just as you are. To say that pregnancy is “difficult and unbearable” seems to discount the experiences of women who want to keep their babies. yes, pregnancy can be difficult for some, but not “unbearable”. If it were, women would not continue to “bear” children.
I agree. Those persons who have chosen to engage in the behavior that we all know results in pregnancies will answer for taking the life of an innocent to avoid the consequences of their choices.
Indeed yes, openmind77, you appear to be in line for a very rude awakening.
Can you produce any evidence or support of any kind for this arbitrary assertion?
This is very Catholic too. And as others have pointed out, since we don’t know we take the most caution to protect human life from the moment of conception. And … .since it is God who gives life, who formed us before we were born, the human life is worthy of protection, even if one argued it had not yet received a soul.
Since you don’t know, and are fallible, which means you could error, one must be open to being … wrong. Especially since you can’t prove your assertion.
Amen, in love and truth!
You don’t know exactly? This is like the person that goes hunting and sees a bush moving and shoots. Let’s look at what the options are here:
And why isn’t a fetus a person? It is because you have defined it that way, the very same way others have been defined as less than human to justify the atrocities practiced on them. You have asserted that a fetus “definitely” isn’t a human being in its first six months, but there is nothing “definite” about it: it is pure invention on your part. You could with equal justification assert that children aren’t fully human until they are seven, or that the old grow out of their humanness at age 90. Yours is a personal choice. It is not tied to science in any way. It serves only to justify your desire that abortion be…justifiable.
In what way are they persecuted? What is being done to them?
Yes, actually that is pretty much what it means.
This is a fallacy, openmind. If she gets cancer, does she have total control over that?
It is not a personal choice. Millions of people agree with me that a fetus is not a human being. Nobody ever says that a person after birth is not a human being - that will never happen in this day and age and it is pointless to discuss it.
It is quite well known how women who seek abortion are persecuted in many states of this country. They practically have to run a gauntlet to just get to the clinic. On the way, they may be yelled at, harangued, even spat on and intimidated. Many of these clinics have been shut down, so the nearest one maybe 100s of miles away. Poor women may not have cars to drive there, they may not have gas money or bus fare. Once they get to the place, there may be a mandated waiting period, so they have to stay overnight - poor women don;t have money for hotels - they may not even have a car to sleep in. There is no government funding for the procedure - these poor women have no money for food. On the way, they may even be tricked into going to a fake abortion clinic.
It is a personal choice, based upon ignorance (something you don’t and cannot know -when the human fetus becomes ensouled). It is also a choice to ignore scientific fact, philosophic logic, and the revelation of God. It is a choice that required stubborn persistence to remain in ignorance.
YOu keep claiming this, but you have yet to produce a source. Who are these millions of people as ignorant as yourself?
On the contrary, there are places where certain classes of people are not born with the recognition that they have human rights and dignity. Slavery still exists, and it is based upon the same reasoning you are using.
I think not. Can you produce even one example?
Evidence? Examples?
Thanks be to God!
Or be intercepted by a Catholic buying them food and offering them services through Right to Life.
This is faulty thinking. There is always an alternative - have the baby!!!
Evidence? Examples?
More faulty thinking. No one takes pleasure in the suffering of women who have an unwanted pregnancy. She needs prayer, counseling, support etc. Adding a murder to her conscience will not reduce her suffering.
It is probably off the thread topic, but what do you imagine will happen when your “Christ” appears? Besides widespread murder, I mean.
It already has. I even provided a rather lengthy citation from the book the author wrote making this exact point: a newborn child is not a human being. The wonder is that you can be so oblivious to everything that contradicts your position.
Words are totally inadequate…
As we are fasting today on Good Friday, let us apply ourselves as Jesus taught us:
These citations are fringe opinions. Similarly there are a few thousand white supremacists in the US and even a few hundred who believe that the earth is flat. There is no chance that such fringe beliefs will have influence or be accepted by many. My belief that a fetus does not have the same rights as a human being on the other hand, is accepted by literally billions.
Embryology and biology are “fringe” opinions now?
Since your the one mentioning it, I declare it a false prophecy based an the words of Jesus himself “13 Keep awake therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour.”
You are kidding yourself, openmind77. One such person, described as a “walking Confederate flag” is currently the front runner in a major conservative political party running for President.
Of which population exists only in your mind, as evidenced by the fact that you have never produced any proof that these “billions” exist.
This need not concern us, openmind77, because whoever you are calling “Christ” that you believe is coming is not the same as Jesus who is Lord of Christians. You describe someone who is a liar and murderer from the beginning, and we have another name for that one.
It is regrettable that the party which championed all these social programs abandoned the prolife plank during the Kennedy era. Now we are in a position where we must select between the lesser of two evils.
Your “Christ” is known by another name amongst us.
That citation was from a professor from (the fringe group of) Princeton University, and I mentioned it specifically in response to your assertion that “Nobody ever says that a person after birth is not a human being.…” Unlike your other assertions, this one was rather simple to rebut.
Given that those who would accept your belief about Christ could probably be counted on one hand, does that make it automatically wrong? If right and wrong are determined by how many believe something then this statement is obviously wrong. On the other hand, if truth is determined by something like, well…truth, then the number of people who accept something is irrelevant. So, which is it? Is your claim that billions think like you do irrelevant or are you simply wrong in your belief about Christ?