Why do you feel socialism is bad?

[cecilia97]

How are those who are recieving Healthcare in the US looking after those who dont?
The numbers that dont have health insurance run into the tens of millions,how can you,as a good Catholic with no medical experience,i presume,help them?

Catholics in this country help all the time! You do not have to be a doctor to help provide free and low-cost health care. My parish has a second collection about 3 of every 4 weeks in a month, many for Catholic charities, hospitals, and religious orders who take care of the poor and run health institutions. We give to our parish St Vincent de Paul societies, etc, etc.

Americans give a LOT. This is what we’re talking about…we don’t need the government to force us to give. We give more dollars per capita to charity than the people in European countries.

I know someone right here in Texas who received ABSOLUTELY FREE treatment for breast cancer 6 years ago, while she was uninsured. She has been healthy ever since. We can do that WITHOUT the government interfering. She asked for help, and people helped her. Companies helped her. Churches helped her.

Who helps the women in the UK who can’t get breast cancer medications because the government decides they’re too old to justify the expense?

 

[cecilia97]

This is very true.

Most USA Americans really have very little idea what socialism actually is. Nor do they understand that their own country has a mixed economy, which already includes many socialist concepts.

Like a fish in water does not realize it is in water.

Michael

Oh, we understand that we already have socialist programs, and lots of us don’t like them. Having failed/failing socialist programs already in place is no reason to roll over and allow the government to institute more of a bad thing.

 

[peary1]

Oh, we understand that we already have socialist programs, and lots of us don’t like them. Having failed/failing socialist programs already in place is no reason to roll over and allow the government to institute more of a bad thing.

I agree with your assessment.

 

[jpk1313]

Well because we live in america and not in france if you like so much why don’t you go there.

We actually like to work for our stuff here. That is what makes it such a great country.

How exactly is america great? it opresses the poor by forcing the poor to pay more taxs than the rich, bankrupts the sick, has enough weapons of mass destruction to end all life on earth, puts murderus dictators into power over forign nations so it can rape the land and enslave its people, is the leader in moraly repugnant “entertainment”, is a nation addicted to drugs either street or prescription, consumes more of the earths resourses than any other nation, has an obesity problem while at the same time letting people starve both within its borders and without, is the world leader of the “culture of death” with its obsession with guns and violence, ect, ect, ect,.

 

[Gift_from_God]

I don’t believe everything should be socialized, but some things should be government run. Let’s face it, I live in Canada, and our health care system has helped many people, regardless what Fox News tells you. America is already socialist but doesn’t know it. If you are an American taxpayer, I’m sure you want the government to keep working on those highways they use with your tax dollars.

I’m a taxpayer, I’m responsible for your salary

A quote I made up, but should be said by everyone

 

[tjm190]

I don’t believe everything should be socialized, but some things should be government run. Let’s face it, I live in Canada, and our health care system has helped many people, regardless what Fox News tells you. America is already socialist but doesn’t know it. If you are an American taxpayer, I’m sure you want the government to keep working on those highways they use with your tax dollars.

A quote I made up, but should be said by everyone

The existance of some socialized programs does not make an econmy socialist any more than consumer freedom makes an economy capitalist.

 

[tjm190]

How exactly is america great? it opresses the poor by forcing the poor to pay more taxs than the rich, bankrupts the sick, has enough weapons of mass destruction to end all life on earth, puts murderus dictators into power over forign nations so it can rape the land and enslave its people, is the leader in moraly repugnant “entertainment”, is a nation addicted to drugs either street or prescription, consumes more of the earths resourses than any other nation, has an obesity problem while at the same time letting people starve both within its borders and without, is the world leader of the “culture of death” with its obsession with guns and violence, ect, ect, ect,.

I see you came up with quite a few accusations and very few explanations. Let’s start with the first one since I’ve never been one to type an essay length response from a mobile phone. Let’s do a fact check- what percentage of the U.S.'s tax revenue comes from the top 10%?

 

[fultonfish]

How are those who are recieving Healthcare in the US looking after those who dont?
The numbers that dont have health insurance run into the tens of millions,how can you,as a good Catholic with no medical experience,i presume,help them?

Well from figures released from your own government,they were not doing just fine from having no health insurance,they were dying.
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Nearly 45,000 people die in the United States each year – one every 12 minutes – in large part because they lack health insurance and can not get good care, Harvard Medical School researchers found in an analysis released on Thursday.

The numbers 45000 etc ] have been debunked many times.

PLEASE do not confuse health care with health insurance. Two totally different things.

 

[wabrams]

I believe this is the biggest fault in the US healthcare system,it puts profits before people. Why should anyone be denied healthcare,do you think its right that someone is denied healthcare because a company has to make a profit.
Now im not saying the US system is the only one that is faulty,all healthcare systems have their faults,however,the US system is the only one were people are denied healthcare because companies must make a profit.

How many times does it need to be explained on this forum that no one is denied healthcare in the USA. Walk into any ER and you get treated. Getting health insurance is a totally different matter. Why is it in every thread about insurance this gets confused every four or five pages? Do some of you every read what is actually written or are you so blinded by your love of socialism that you just don’t care?

 

[wabrams]

How exactly is america great? it** opresses the poor by forcing the poor to pay more taxs than the rich,** bankrupts the sick, has enough weapons of mass destruction to end all life on earth, puts murderus dictators into power over forign nations so it can rape the land and enslave its people, is the leader in moraly repugnant “entertainment”, is a nation addicted to drugs either street or prescription, consumes more of the earths resourses than any other nation, has an obesity problem while at the same time letting people starve both within its borders and without, is the world leader of the “culture of death” with its obsession with guns and violence, ect, ect, ect,.

That is an utter lie that I know for a fact you cannot back-up. Almost 50% of Americans pay no income tax to the federal government. If you get back 100% of what was taken out of your paycheck throughout the year, or more, then you paid NO income taxes.

 

[Hesychios]

Oh, we understand that we already have socialist programs, and lots of us don’t like them. Having failed/failing socialist programs already in place is no reason to roll over and allow the government to institute more of a bad thing.

Would you care to name them, and why they are failed programs?

 

[peary1]

How exactly is america great? it opresses the poor by forcing the poor to pay more taxs than the rich

That is a totally false and bogus statement. Obviously, you’ve never been to a CPA. Get your facts str8 before you make such ignorant remarks.

bankrupts the sick

I know a lot of ‘sick’ people, and they certainly aren’t bankrupt. Their insurance payments are high and it does take a toll on both they and their families, especially if they have to go into nursing homes or eldercare centers. Those are special needs individuals. The vast majority of senior citizens live on their own, or live with a member of their family. And manyh private organizations, such as The American Cancer Society, the American Diabetes Association, the Spina Bifida Foundation - the list is endless. They direct their resources to help individuals who suffer from these maladies. And when was the last time you made a donation to any of them?
Yes, some individuals are denied medical insurance coverage because of their condition(s). Hopefully, the coming healthcare bill will remedy such situations.

has enough weapons of mass destruction to end all life on earth

What is your point? So does Russia, so does China, so does India, so does the United Kingdom, so does France, so does Pakistan, so does North Korea, so does Israel. You cannot just pick and choose your nuclear country by whim. Either they are all evil or they aren’t.

puts murderus dictators into power over forign nations so it can rape the land and enslave its people

Sorry, we didn’t put in Joseph Stalin, or Lenin, or Mao Tse Tung, or Hitler. We certainly didn’t put in Hugo Chavez, either. Again, you pick and choose your country because you have tunnel vision.

is the leader in moraly repugnant “entertainment”

Then turn off the damned TV or switch stations, and stop looking at all those porno sites.

is a nation addicted to drugs either street or prescription

**Of course, you’ve forgotten about the drug cartels in Columbia and Mexico and the problems they are having there, or the problems in Afghanistan with poppy fields that are used to finance…who? THE TALIBAN.

Prescription drugs? Hey, better living through chemistry, I always say!**

consumes more of the earths resourses than any other nation

Oh, don’t forget China, which is # 2.

has an obesity problem

Who you callin’ fat, moron?

while at the same time letting people starve both within its borders and without

Sometimes food might be difficult to come by, but there are food pantries all over this nation, and, for the vast majority, the poor do not go hungry. Most obesity is found in the American ‘poor’. How to explain that one?,

is the world leader of the “culture of death”

Actually, that would be China with its one child per family policy and mandatory abortion practices. The last time I checked, Americans can have as many or as little children as a family wants, and abortion is still a choice; it is not federally mandated.

with its obsession with guns and violence, ect, ect, ect,
**
The Constitution guarantees that its citizens can be armed. Take it up with the Founding Fathers if you have a problem with it.

I hope I don’t ever run into you at a party. You could cause everyone there to drink AND drive!.

**
.

 

[ComputerGeek25]

How exactly is america great? it opresses the poor by forcing the poor to pay more taxs than the rich, bankrupts the sick, has enough weapons of mass destruction to end all life on earth, puts murderus dictators into power over forign nations so it can rape the land and enslave its people, is the leader in moraly repugnant “entertainment”, is a nation addicted to drugs either street or prescription, consumes more of the earths resourses than any other nation, has an obesity problem while at the same time letting people starve both within its borders and without, is the world leader of the “culture of death” with its obsession with guns and violence, ect, ect, ect,.

What I put in bold is false. For starters, you do realize that roughly 50% of the people in this country pay no Federal income tax? Yet the so-called poor people are more likely to use the Fedral programs (that they probably did not pay for). How exactly is that fair?

Can you name a tax that is unfair to poor people?

 

[fultonfish]

A previous post debunking the notion of tens of millions being without medical insurance:
Posted by st francis Oct 7, 2009

46.3 million are uninsured news.aol.com/article/number-o…surance/664816

nchc.org/facts/coverage.shtml
Here’s a breakdown of those 46M )I rearranged them)

Non-Citizens: This figure of 9.3 million (20.3 percent of the uninsured) includes both legal aliens-many of whom are not eligible for federally-subsidized coverage for five years after their arrival-and undocumented immigrants.

Medicaid Undercount: 6.4 million (14 percent of the 45.7 million uninsured in 2007) were enrolled in Medicaid or SCHIP, but did not report such coverage to the Census Bureau.

Eligible for But Not Enrolled in Government Coverage: An additional 4.3 million (9.4 percent) were eligible for public programs like Medicaid and SCHIP but not enrolled in them. As a 2003 CBO report noted, “Some policy-makers…believe that such people should be regarded as insured, because they can apply for Medicaid when they require care and receive retroactive coverage for their expenses.”

Over Three Times Poverty: Many of these 10.1 million individuals (22.1 percent of the uninsured) may be able to afford coverage, as their incomes are above 300 percent of the federal poverty level ($66,150 for a family of four in 2009), but choose not to purchase such coverage.

“Young Invincibles:” An additional 5 million uninsured (10.9 percent of the total) are aged between 18 and 34; while many likely could purchase coverage at affordable rates, some may choose not to do so-because they feel they do not need it, and/or do not perceive it to be of value to them.

I don’t know enough about the first category listed here to comment, but they are 20% of the uninsured.

We have an additional 25% who are either on or eligible for Medicaid.

Ten percent are the young, who are presumed pto choose not to be covered because they feel invincible and want to buy I-Pods instead. And the last 22% are those who are not eligible for government aid, but who are not covered elsewhere.

So that’s 15 million people, or one-third of the original estimate of Americans without insurance who are actually without health coverage.

First of all, some of them do not have coverage because they are currently unemployed. In this difficult economic time, they may have chosen to save their money rather than spend it on COBRA (which can be terrifically expensive) so that they can feed their family longer if it takes a while to find a job.

Another set is self-employed and have decided not to pay for coverage for various reasons: uneven compensation, high rates due to pre-existing conditions, inability to obtain due to pre-existing conditions, and, despite being 300% over the poverty level, maybe not being able to afford it due to any number of things such as student loans to pay back, child support payments, etc.

And there are probably those who choose not to buy because insurance is a gamble–a gamble that you will get sick. If they perceive their chances of getting sick as being very low, then they may decide to pass on the offer, the same way I don’t play the lottery.

Quote:
If we are pro life - we are pro health care / health coverage reform -
Per the USCCB
There are simple things which could be done to aid those who are not currently covered or eligible for the aid given to those in poverty. One is to break the bond between employment and insurance–that is just crazy. People should be able to have medical accounts which would be taken off their taxes. Right now, the tax system favors the employer-provided model because those payments are considered expenses and the money used for them is not taxed. However, those who pay their own premiums are paying from income which has already been taxed. Evening out this inequity by allowing premium payments to not be counted as taxable income would help those in this situation, as would a system similar to the EIC whereby some would get an actual credit for what they have paid out.

For those with pre-existing conditions, the current programs could be expanded to cover them as well, or the EIC–like system above could help them out.

There is really no need to turn our whole system inside out just because 5% of the people here have no insurance and are ineligible for government assistance.

 

[cecilia97]

That is an utter lie that I know for a fact you cannot back-up. Almost 50% of Americans pay no income tax to the federal government. If you get back 100% of what was taken out of your paycheck throughout the year, or more, then you paid NO income taxes.

Amen. The TOP 2% of American earners pay 98% of the taxes in this country. Gosh, they should just be ashamed of themselves!

 

[Brendan]

“Young Invincibles:” An additional 5 million uninsured (10.9 percent of the total) are aged between 18 and 34; while many likely could purchase coverage at affordable rates, some may choose not to do so-because they feel they do not need it, and/or do not perceive it to be of value to them…

That was me when I was first out of college. I chose to buy a new Mustang instead of buying health insurance. I could have purchased a used Escort instead, but I didn’t

I suppose the beauty of socialism is that I could have purchased the Mustang and have had someone else be taxed to pay for my healtcare.

Is that what is being proposed here?

 

[fish90]

Socialism kinda makes every adult into a child. Why vote out a bad politician when he/she gives out those great entitlements or jobs?

Some failed socialist programs in the U.S.

1.) Medicare and Medicaid-----over budget, unsustainable, ineffective, wasteful (in the billions of dollars)

2.) Public Schools---- fail especially in poor neighborhoods and inefficient

3.) Roads— self explanatory

4.) Social security— LOOPHOLES

Those are some big problems.

Free markets usually work out better. Prices are actualized, competition exists, and there is EFFICIENCY!!!

 

[athansor]

How many times does it need to be explained on this forum that no one is denied healthcare in the USA. Walk into any ER and you get treated. Getting health insurance is a totally different matter. Why is it in every thread about insurance this gets confused every four or five pages? Do some of you every read what is actually written or are you so blinded by your love of socialism that you just don’t care?

I keep hearing this, that all one needs is access to an ER to get medical care. Can I go to the ER for cancer treatments? Will they do a bypass at the ER? How about pre-natal care? Treat fibromyalgia? A mammogram? Antbiotics for a child’s ear infection?
The ER’s great if you fall and break your arm, are in a car accident, and the like. If you have a chronic condition, need preventative care or something like that, it’s not the place. So, people end up waiting to treat something that could have been easily fixed.

 

[sidbrown]

Hello there! I’m a supporter of the United States becoming a socialist democracy, and having systems such as socialized health care.

Looking over this forum, most (if not all) of the members are strongly anti-socialist. Why?

Note: I do understand that abortion is evil if not done for (both physical and mental) medicinal reasons. If abortion is not funded, at all, would you be in favor of it?

One of the problems that I see with socialism is that some people are more equal than others. Take for example the recent government intervention and aid to the large financial groups. These are people who are making more than one million dollars a year and they are out begging for socialist government support for them. Further, I read that the heads of the socialistic government sponsored Fannie Mae and Freedie Mac groups will be pulling in more than six million dollars over a three year period. That’s not a bad salary. When the corrupt officials who back government sponsored socialism for themselves begin to show some hosesty and desire for authentic equality, then I might reconsider my opposition to socialsim.

 

[Hesychios]

Some failed socialist programs in the U.S.

1.) Medicare and Medicaid-----over budget, unsustainable, ineffective, wasteful (in the billions of dollars)

2.) Public Schools---- fail especially in poor neighborhoods and inefficient

3.) Roads— self explanatory

4.) Social security— LOOPHOLES

Those are some big problems.

Actually I would argue that these were very badly needed economic bug fixes, and that society would be far worse without them.

Free public education made the USA great. Does it have problems? Oh yes, and it costs money. But the USA would have languished as a third world nation without it.

Free public roads? Of course. Because roads are land and land costs money. Public roads never turn a profit, they will always be in the red, but they are the arteries of commerce and life. Long ago every great nation learned that open roads meant prosperity, and they were worth the cost.

Social Security and Medicare have saved many from utter destitution. These programs were put in place because the nation had experience without them before. This generation lacks that experience, and has trouble contemplating a world wherein their grandparents were solely dependent upon them for support. There would be a whole bunch of cascading changes in American society if this program was eliminated

For example, a lot of families in America were able to send their kids to college because grandmoms had a little bit of her own money to use and did not need very much from their children. This was a secondary effect often overlooked, but it meant a big difference to the livelihood millions of young Americans and spurred economic development of the country.

You did not mention the Postal Service, the TVA, the Hoover Dam, Credit Unions, Public Parks, Public Libraries, Public Fire Departments.

I have seen both publicly owned and privately owned water utilities in the USA, and interestingly some cities own their own electric companies. When you see this you are observing socialism at work in the community.

Free markets usually work out better. Prices are actualized, competition exists, and there is EFFICIENCY!!!

I would say ‘sometimes’. There is no perfect economic system, mixed economies are normal around the world because they can be tweaked to provide the greatest good.

There is no purely capitalist society anywhere in the developed world and that should be no surprise.