Why does Islam consider Jesus a prophet?

[Aquarius]

Karen10:

Aquarius:

Why have you twice

ignored this, which John, as in the John the Gospel Writer, wrote *himself?

*This is the third time, now.

“And I saw, and I gave testimony, that this is the Son of God.”
(JOHN 1:34, DRC)"

There. A gospel writer gave testimony that Jesus was God. And I posted this twice and you ignored it, …why?

You wouldn’t want people to suspect that you’re here for other reasons–to annoy Catholics–than for honest, rational dialogue, right?

I don’t ignore it. What are the first two words of the Lord’s Prayer?

I hope people don’t think I am here to annoy them. I think I have a reasonable point, have heard almost nothing from anyone about Luke, Matthew, and Mark, and look forward to stimulating and rigorous discussion.

 

[Aquarius]

Karen10:

No.

John who wrote the Gospel John, wrote:

Again. Fourth time now. Ignoring me at this point makes you look extremely foolish.

“And I saw, and I gave testimony, that this is the Son of God.”
(JOHN 1:34, DRC)

Address this please or be taken for a troll.

What are the first two words of the Lord’s Prayer. How come nobody knows this? I suspect everybody knows it.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

Aquarius:

Karen10:

I don’t ignore it. What are the first two words of the Lord’s Prayer?

I hope people don’t think I am here to annoy them. I think I have a reasonable point, have heard almost nothing from anyone about Luke, Matthew, and Mark, and look forward to stimulating and rigorous discussion.

You do ignore it, and then you go on with some other tirade which you believe will make your point, when it doesn’t. “Our Father,”, is not was Jesus prayed, because He had no sin, but He instructed us to pray it because through Jesus who suffered for our sins on calvary, we can become children of God. Our relationship is different to that of the Son’s because He was eternally begotten (i.e. He existed before He was manifest in the flesh in the womb of Mary).

You also ignore Rom 9:5 where Saint Paul clearly calls Christ God:

Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

Also, may I ask what religion you are? Are you Muslim or a Jehovahs Witness?

 

[Karen10]

Aquarius:

Karen10:

I don’t ignore it. What are the first two words of the Lord’s Prayer?

I hope people don’t think I am here to annoy them. I think I have a reasonable point, have heard almost nothing from anyone about Luke, Matthew, and Mark, and look forward to stimulating and rigorous discussion.

So you admit John does, and that your claim that no gospel writer could have believed such a thing has been proven wrong. That’s progress.

Would be nice if you’d admit you were wrong, because that’s the intellectually honest thing to do. I’ll tell you why it would be nice. It’s not because we’re into winning arguments, but it would show us that we were speaking with an intellectually honest person and that we are not wasting our time with someone stubborn.

A troll wants to waste our time and will run us around in circles, never admitting when he or she is wrong. An honest person does the decent thing and admits when they are wrong. An honest person, you can have a rational discussion with. Someone who can’t concede a point they should concede is strongly indicating that they are just “playing around with us”.

And now you want more citations from Matthew, Mark and Luke. But I have no proof that you’re the honest type who will even accept what I’d find in these other gospels. I only have proof that 1.) you cannot admit when you are wrong and 2.) when you’re shown you’re wrong, instead of letting it sink in, you ignore it and simply increase the amount of proof you say you need. I don’t have any assurance that working with you is a worthwhile thing to do with my time.

How about you get a Bible and do some searching on your own. If you are intellectually honest, that’s what you’d do. I did it when I was agnostic, and when I thought I should be Protestant if anything, and had my own beefs with Christianity/Catholicism.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

Aquarius:

Karen10:

I don’t ignore it. What are the first two words of the Lord’s Prayer?

I hope people don’t think I am here to annoy them. I think I have a reasonable point, have heard almost nothing from anyone about Luke, Matthew, and Mark, and look forward to stimulating and rigorous discussion.

Proof from the Old Testament:

Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

 

[Aquarius]

Semper Fi:

Aquarius:

You do ignore it, and then you go on with some other tirade which you believe will make your point, when it doesn’t. “Our Father,”, is not was Jesus prayed, because He had no sin, but He instructed us to pray it because through Jesus who suffered for our sins on calvary, we can become children of God. Our relationship is different to that of the Son’s because He was eternally begotten

(i.e. He existed before He was manifest in the flesh in the womb of Mary).

You also ignore Rom 9:5 where Saint Paul clearly calls Christ God:

Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

Also, may I ask what religion you are? Are you Muslim or a Jehovahs Witness?

Thank you. “Our Father” are the first two words of the Lord’s Prayer. The image of God being the father of humans goes way back. It does not mean we are all God.

Paul is not a gospel. I am dealing only with the four gospels.

 

[Karen10]

Aquarius:

Semper Fi:

Thank you. “Our Father” are the first two words of the Lord’s Prayer. The image of God being the father of humans goes way back. It does not mean we are all God.

Paul is not a gospel. I am dealing only with the four gospels.

And you conveniently ignore my posts yet again.

 

[Aquarius]

Karen10:

Aquarius:

So you admit John does, and that your claim that no gospel writer could have believed such a thing has been proven wrong. That’s progress.

Would be nice if you’d admit you were wrong, because that’s the intellectually honest thing to do. I’ll tell you why it would be nice. It’s not because we’re into winning arguments, but it would show us that we were speaking with an intellectually honest person

and that we are not wasting our time with someone stubborn.

A troll wants to waste our time and will run us around in circles, never admitting when he or she is wrong. An honest person does the decent thing and admits when they are wrong. An honest person, you can have a rational discussion with. Someone who can’t concede a point they should concede is strongly indicating that they are just “playing around with us”.

And now you want more citations from Matthew, Mark and Luke. But I have no proof that you’re the honest type who will even accept what I’d find in these other gospels. I only have proof that 1.) you cannot admit when you are wrong and 2.) when you’re shown you’re wrong, instead of letting it sink in, you ignore it and simply increase the amount of proof you say you need. I don’t have any assurance that working with you is a worthwhile thing to do with my time.

How about you get a Bible and do some searching on your own. If you are intellectually honest, that’s what you’d do. I did it when I was agnostic, and when I thought I should be Protestant if anything, and had my own beefs with Christianity/Catholicism.

I admit nothing about John I said nothing about John in the post to which you responded.

What I did note was the fact that people are not even trying to demonstrate that the authors of Luke, Mark, and Matthew considered Jesus to be God.

I did read the gospels. That’s how I learned there is no basis to think the authors of the gospels considered Jesus to be God.

I take it you have no defense for the authors of Mark, Luke, and Matthew? Why should anyone think they considered Jesus to be God?

 

[Aquarius]

Karen10:

Aquarius:

And you conveniently ignore my posts yet again.

If we all call God our father, there is nothing special about being children of God. That doesn’t make us God.

The authors of the gospels simply don’t provide reasons to think they considered Jesus to be God. Chriatians believe Jesus is God, and they think the gospel authors said so - until they go looking for backup. (Look in Luke, Matthew, and Mark. Don’t ignore them.)

 

[Karen10]

Aquarius:

Karen10:

I admit nothing about John I said nothing about John in the post to which you responded.

What I did note was the fact that people are not even trying to demonstrate that the authors of Luke, Mark, and Matthew considered Jesus to be God.

I did read the gospels. That’s how I learned there is no basis to think the authors of the gospels considered Jesus to be God.

I take it you have no defense for the authors of Mark, Luke, and Matthew? Why should anyone think they considered Jesus to be God?

Wait a minute. You said, no gospel authors believed Jesus was the Son of God.

I showed you that John said that very thing. I quoted the verse FOUR TIMES.

SO. ONE gospel author did say the very thing you said that no gospel authors ever said or could have believed.

What in the world??

And then you switch your criteria from “gospels” to “Luke, Mark and Matthew”.

Huh?? This is just absurd.

Tell us this. What proof do you have for us, that you are not just stringing us around. Answer and do not ignore this. Answer what I wrote above, and answer exactly why we should give you any more time, since you’ve only shown us proof that you enjoy wasting people’s time.

Go.

 

[cathgal]

Karen10,

Aquarius is playing a dimwit. He’s pulling your leg. Don’t fall into it.

 

[srp643]

Aquarius:

Karen10:

If we all call God our father, there is nothing special about being children of God. That doesn’t make us God.

The authors of the gospels simply don’t provide reasons to think they considered Jesus to be God. Chriatians believe Jesus is God, and they think the gospel authors said so - until they go looking for backup. (Look in Luke, Matthew, and Mark. Don’t ignore them.)

Peace Aquarius. We appreciate your assistance in affirming our Faith in Lord Jesus even more. This may not have been what you intended but is nevertheless the result. My brethren have not only refreshed me about what I already knew but also have introduced me to less obvious verses and ideas as well. Dominus vobiscum.

No muslim has yet to answer the original post so I have to deduce thus far that there is no rational explanation for why Jesus is considered a prophet and it was simply because your prophet said so. This still begs the questions as to what exactly “qualified” Jesus to be a prophet (e.g. which verses of the Bible) in his eyes and exactly what was He prophesying? I’m looking forward to a stimulating conversation about this.

 

[inJESUS]

No muslim has yet to answer the original post so I have to deduce thus far that there is no rational explanation for why Jesus is considered a prophet and it was simply because your prophet said so. This still begs the questions as to what exactly “qualified” Jesus to be a prophet (e.g. which verses of the Bible) in his eyes and exactly what was He prophesying? I’m looking forward to a stimulating conversation about this.

quran speaks very little about Jesus; it says he is born of a virgin ( merci Mr. mohammad) but that he is a slave for allah and that he taught to worship one God…thats it…in addition to some folklores of Jesus talking as a baby or Mary eating dates or Jesus rebuking people for taking himself and Mary as gods and stuff like that…in other words, mohammad did not mention Jesus’ teachings…yet he called him THE MESSIAH…go figure

 

[srp643]

inJESUS:
quran speaks very little about Jesus; it says he is born of a virgin ( merci Mr. mohammad) but that he is a slave for allah and that he taught to worship one God…thats it…in addition to some folklores of Jesus talking as a baby or Mary eating dates or Jesus rebuking people for taking himself and Mary as gods and stuff like that…in other words, mohammad did not mention Jesus’ teachings…yet he called him THE MESSIAH…go figure

Thanks. So he was considered a prophet and called the MESSIAH but there is no mention of his teachings in the islamic holy texts. That’s a sad commentary. Their prophet is clearly acknowledging some of His greatness (Messiah would actually make Him “greatest”) but fails to explain what He was about and what He said. Are their so many prophets and messiahs in islam with the same message that overlooking Jesus’ teachings somehow didn’t matter and would have been redundant?

In Catholicism, someone considered a prophet is taken extremely seriously. God is using them to deliver a specific message. I don’t know of any prophets in Catholicism whose teachings are not widely known and studied, no matter how similar their message to other prophets. IMO, if I am convinced someone is a prophet and I believe in God, I need to take that person with utmost seriosity. Being a prophet IS a big deal. Of course Jesus was the Son of God but I’m shocked at the lack of thoughtfulness on this in islam. They have actually given Him equal status with mohemed yet are afraid to study what He said and did. Makes no logical sense.

 

[inJESUS]

Being a prophet IS a big deal. Of course Jesus was the Son of God but I’m shocked at the lack of thoughtfulness on this in islam. They have actually given Him equal status with mohemed yet are afraid to study what He said and did. Makes no logical sense.

you must be kidding !! do you want mohammad to have the courage and sincerity to say Jesus’ teachings?
Do you expect someone like mohammad to say that Jesus said NO to killing? that Jesus said NO to polygamy? that Jesus said NO to having temporary marriage? that Jesus said NO to easy divorce? if mohammad had the guts to say them, would he still have the guts to say he is a prophet? let alone a “holy” person? and what would he have done with his claims of women and money as priviledges to a prophet
he had 2 choices: either corrupt Jesus’ teachings as he did in many ways, or stay silent, so he chose the second one ohhh or maybe Jesus’ teachings were corrupted by people !!

i wonder, if people corrupted the bible, why on earth did they change who Jesus is instead of his taugh commandmants??

to conclude, if mohammad was sincere enough to say Jesus’ teachings, his message wouldnt have lived a day and he wouldnt have the boldness to claim himself a prophet from God.mohammad was a false prophet but not a stupid guy He enjoyed fully his sexual life and promised his followers houris in paradise yet another anti-Jesus teachings

 

[Joseph_Alison]

srp643:

In Catholicism, someone considered a prophet is taken extremely seriously. God is using them to deliver a specific message. I don’t know of any prophets in Catholicism whose teachings are not widely known and studied, no matter how similar their message to other prophets. IMO, if I am convinced someone is a prophet and I believe in God, I need to take that person with utmost seriosity. Being a prophet IS a big deal. Of course Jesus was the Son of God but I’m shocked at the lack of thoughtfulness on this in islam. They have actually given Him equal status with mohemed yet are afraid to study what He said and did. Makes no logical sense.

Following are some of the teachings of Jesus. Let’s us see if they are taken extremely seriously.

MT 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Adultery is paramount in Christian society, contrary to the teachings of Jesus.

MT 5:28 but I say unto you, that every one that looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Most of Christian women wear almost nothing, offering their bounties for everyone to see, and making most of the Christian men commit adultery.

MT 5:29 And if thy right eye causeth thee to stumble, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not thy whole body be cast into hell.
Dare apply this teaching!

MT 5:30 And if thy right hand causeth thee to stumble, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not thy whole body go into hell.
Dare apply this teaching too!

MT 5:31 It was said also, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
MT 5:32 but I say unto you, that every one that putteth away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, maketh her an adulteress: and whosoever shall marry her when she is put away committeth adultery.
No divorce save for cause of fornication said Jesus, while divorce is rampant is Christian society!

MT 5:38 Ye have heard that it was said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
MT 5:39 but I say unto you, resist not him that is evil: but whosoever smiteth thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
Dare apply this teaching too.

MT 5:40 And if any man would go to law with thee, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.
What about this one?

MT 5:43 Ye have heard that it was said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thine enemy:
MT 5:44 but I say unto you, love your enemies, and pray for them that persecute you;

Great teaching! You should love Bin Laden and consort and love Muslims if you think they are your enemies.

Muslims hold to the teachings of their prophet (PBUH) and if you want to know what those teachings are, study the life of that great man.

Salaam.
Joseph.

 

[srp643]

Now you see my point, inJESUS. This “prophet” thing in islam presents them a real problem. When we refer to someone as a “doctor” it is because that person has gone to medical school, done her residency, passed board exams, etc. Similarly, when we refer to someone as a “mechanic” it is because the person has obtained a skillset to fix cars and trucks. Logically, there are certain requirements for valid, accurate descriptions of people. Yet, muslims call Jesus a “prophet” without explaining why He is given such distinction. They have no basis apparently for describing Him this way. Further, there is no explanation of what it is He “prophesied”.

 

[srp643]

Joseph_Alison:

Following are some of the teachings of Jesus. Let’s us see if they are taken extremely seriously.

MT 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Adultery is paramount in Christian society, contrary to the teachings of Jesus.

MT 5:28 but I say unto you, that every one that looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Most of Christian women wear almost nothing, offering their bounties for everyone to see, and making most of the Christian men commit adultery.

MT 5:29 And if thy right eye causeth thee to stumble, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not thy whole body be cast into hell.
Dare apply this teaching!

MT 5:30 And if thy right hand causeth thee to stumble, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not thy whole body go into hell.
Dare apply this teaching too!

MT 5:31 It was said also, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
MT 5:32 but I say unto you, that every one that putteth away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, maketh her an adulteress: and whosoever shall marry her when she is put away committeth adultery.
No divorce save for cause of fornication said Jesus, while divorce is rampant is Christian society!

MT 5:38 Ye have heard that it was said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
MT 5:39 but I say unto you, resist not him that is evil: but whosoever smiteth thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
Dare apply this teaching too.

MT 5:40 And if any man would go to law with thee, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.
What about this one?

MT 5:43 Ye have heard that it was said, Thou shalt love thy neighbor, and hate thine enemy:
MT 5:44 but I say unto you, love your enemies, and pray for them that persecute you;

Great teaching! You should love Bin Laden and consort and love Muslims if you think they are your enemies.

Muslims hold to the teachings of their prophet (PBUH) and if you want to know what those teachings are, study the life of that great man.

Salaam.
Joseph.

Proves nothing. All humans are sinners my friend, you and I included. That does not mean His teachings are not taken extremely seriously. Agree, more and more muslims appear to be holding to the teachings of your prophet very well.

 

[Joseph_Alison]

srp643:

Agree, more and more muslims appear to be holding to the teachings of your prophet very well.

No insinuations please. You don’t look intelligent. I am serious. Study and you will know what I am talking about.

Salaam.
Joseph.

 

[inJESUS]

Joseph Alison had nothing to comment about mohammad not having the guts to say Jesus’ teachings but attacks sinful people…is that all you came with, dear Joseph?