Why doesn't God destroy the devil now?

[CatsAndDogs]

Except that this highly egalitarian Church will not let you be a priest. Oh no, you must have a penis for that to be open to you. How is that for acknowledging the equality between men and women?

Best,

Tor

There is no “equality” between men and women! They are not the same, and to say that they are is just silly.

When you say “equality”, what do you REALLY mean?

 

[Q_Bee]

Unfortunately, we non-Magisterial humans are not qualified to “MORE bordering on MOST” exhaustively interpret scripture.

And since scripture is only a subset of the deposit of faith, it’s rather silly to base all “faith and moral” questions of a subset of the thing which they should be based on. Yes, no? Mais oui?

For a final decision as to what scripture means, one simply must rely on a God-given singular authority. That authority is the Magisterium of the Church.

If someone can show me how they are more, not “as well”, qualified to “most exhaustively” interpret scripture than the Magisterium then I’ll be happy to call them Pope.

Where in scripture does it say that we are to defer to a magisterium for interpretation? I’m curious to see if there is actually a viable foundation that sets us up to believe this notion without our own faculties coming into play.

You are talking about deferring to “authority” rather than having a personal relationship with the Divine. How’s that working for you? Does it lead to fulfilling the Great Commandment?

Q<

 

[CatsAndDogs]

That is nothing more than a dualistic perspective of the world. Nonbeing is a construct of the mind. Light implies light, nothing else. Darkness is not non-light, just the absence of light. Everything is still there, it’s just that you can’t see it with your eyes. It’s a limitation of your physical capabilities. If in doubt ask your cat if you have one. Cats can see when we can’t.

We have grown past these shallow constructs. We are. The idea that we could also non-are is as deep as saying that a pig may not wear lipstick. Or non-lipstick.

Or do you believe in non-pigs, too?

Best,

Tor

“Non-pigs”? That’s a seriously COOL concept!

I think I’M a “non-pig”, though many atheists and certain others in these forums would CERTAINLY disagree! <chortle, snork!>

But, er, maybe “anti-pigs”, who somehow “cancel out” non-anti-pigs (“pigs”?) when they come into contact? THAT I’d have a problem with!

 

[CatsAndDogs]

What’s being taught is that the Holy Spirit can’t possibly call a female to holy orders. I’d say that the hierarchy is placing limits on the Holy Spirit. How’s that for spiritual pride! To not even consider that there might be a vocation is sacrilege. And women who defend such a stance must be suffering Stockholm Syndrome.

Q<

Ummm… Holy Orders are a Fatherly vocation (calling from God), not a “job”.

(( Why should, or how can, women be fathers? ))

Since you don’t accept that there is any party who can “call” one to a vocation other than God Himself, how can you even claim to be Catholic, since being so requires your docility to the God-given authority of the Church (Magisterium) to be the SOLE party capable of authentic (infallibly true) human-translated voicing of God?

How are you Catholic, while violating that premise?

 

[CatsAndDogs]

Where in scripture does it say that we are to defer to a magisterium for interpretation? I’m curious to see if there is actually a viable foundation that sets us up to believe this notion without our own faculties coming into play.

Why should I accept your interpretation that the subset of the deposit of faith is the arbiter of where we should look for authority as regards scriptural interpretation?

The Church is the authority. Who speaks for the Church? The Magisterium. What more do you want?

There are any number of threads in here regarding “Sola Scriptura”. I suggest you check them out for a more detailed explanation.

You are talking about deferring to “authority” rather than having a personal relationship with the Divine. How’s that working for you? Does it lead to fulfilling the Great Commandment?

Q<

We have a relationship with the full Body of Christ, which is the Church, and not just “with Jesus”. You sound MUCH more protestant than Catholic, where it’s just “me and Jesus”, and not “me and the Body of Christ”.

Your infesting demon of “anti-(male)-authority” is showing. You might want to look into fixing that little problem.

 

[Q_Bee]

Why should I accept your interpretation that the subset of the deposit of faith is the arbiter of where we should look for authority as regards scriptural interpretation?

The Church is the authority. Who speaks for the Church? The Magisterium. What more do you want?

There are any number of threads in here regarding “Sola Scriptura”. I suggest you check them out for a more detailed explanation.

All this anger!!! My, my, your method doesn’t seem to work in becoming Christlike in attitude.

No one but you is talking about Sola Scriptua. However, theology has to be scripturally based and those who follow Christ are supposed to know what scripture says since it is the foundation.

Here’s a little quandary for you. Since we are supposed to revere the Church Fathers, what about the following quotes:

Eusebius writes in Ecclesiastical History:

This same James [the brother of Jesus], to whom men had accorded [on account of the excellence of his virtue] the surnamed of ‘the Just One’, was recorded to be the First to be elected to the Throne of the Episcopate [Episcopes] of the Church of Jerusalem.​

And Eusebius also writes in the Sixth Book of the Hypotyposes [Institutions]:

Peter, James, and John after the Ascension of the Savior, did not contend for the Glory, even though they had previously been honored by the Savior, but chose James the Just as Bishop of Jerusalem.​

He quotes Hegesippus, ‘who flourished closest to the days of the Apostles’ (c.90-180 CE), specifically where in his Fifth Book of Commentaries Eusebius quotes:

But James, the brother of the Lord, who as there were many of this name, was surnamed the Just by all from the days of our Lord until now, received the Government of the Church with [or ‘from’] the Apostles.​

We have a relationship with the full Body of Christ, which is the Church, and not just “with Jesus”. You sound MUCH more protestant than Catholic, where it’s just “me and Jesus”, and not “me and the Body of Christ”.

Your infesting demon of “anti-(male)-authority” is showing. You might want to look into fixing that little problem.

Your angry accusations are foundationless. One cannot have a relationship with the “Body of Christ” unless there is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ to begin with, then the relationship to others is based on something that is spiritually sound. It’s not all about impersonally relating to parish members or a vague notion of relationship with the “Communion of Saints”. It’s real and palpable, and requires that ‘other’ is important in the equation. One cannot simply go around bullying others with magisterial clap-trap and then say that theirs is the better way to Christ because it actually comes across more like “Support mental health or I’ll kill you”.

There is only egalitarianism in the Body of Christ, no ‘anti-male’ or subjugation of women either. If you are proposing a ‘separate but different’ policy it sounds more like the Deep South than Genesis’ male and female made in God’s image.

Do you suppose your angry statements lead others to Christ?

Q<

 

[CatsAndDogs]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatsAndDogs View Post

Why should I accept your interpretation that the subset of the deposit of faith is the arbiter of where we should look for authority as regards scriptural interpretation?

The Church is the authority. Who speaks for the Church? The Magisterium. What more do you want?

There are any number of threads in here regarding “Sola Scriptura”. I suggest you check them out for a more detailed explanation.

All this anger!!! My, my, your method doesn’t seem to work in becoming Christlike in attitude.

Show me where Christ was angry. He was you know. And why? (That’s a question for you to answer.)

No one but you is talking about Sola Scriptua. However, theology has to be scripturally based and those who follow Christ are supposed to know what scripture says since it is the foundation.

So, you think that the Magisterium’s pronouncements are not “scripturally based”? This is what the CCC has to say on the matter.

“He who hears you (the Church via the Magisterium), hears me.” [Lk 10:16; cf. LG 20.]

Actually, the Magisterium’s pronouncements are scripturally AND traditionally based. Do you have a problem with that?

Here’s a little quandary for you. Since we are supposed to revere the Church Fathers, what about the following quotes:

Eusebius writes in Ecclesiastical History:

This same James [the brother of Jesus], to whom men had accorded [on account of the excellence of his virtue] the surnamed of ‘the Just One’, was recorded to be the First to be elected to the Throne of the Episcopate [Episcopes] of the Church of Jerusalem.

Is this a statement of the Magisterium? If not, why do I care what it says except as an interesting statement from someone other than the Magisterium of the Church?

---

And Eusebius also writes in the Sixth Book of the Hypotyposes [Institutions]:

Peter, James, and John after the Ascension of the Savior, did not contend for the Glory, even though they had previously been honored by the Savior, but chose James the Just as Bishop of Jerusalem.

When and where did the Magisterium say this?

---

He quotes Hegesippus, ‘who flourished closest to the days of the Apostles’ (c.90-180 CE), specifically where in his Fifth Book of Commentaries Eusebius quotes:

But James, the brother of the Lord, who as there were many of this name, was surnamed the Just by all from the days of our Lord until now, received the Government of the Church with [or ‘from’] the Apostles.

Your point is what with this one?

Your lack of docility to the Church is apparently deemed something to be supported by you? Why is that?

 

[CatsAndDogs]

Quote:
We have a relationship with the full Body of Christ, which is the Church, and not just “with Jesus”. You sound MUCH more protestant than Catholic, where it’s just “me and Jesus”, and not “me and the Body of Christ”.

Your infesting demon of “anti-(male)-authority” is showing. You might want to look into fixing that little problem.

Your angry accusations are foundationless. One cannot have a relationship with the “Body of Christ” unless there is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ to begin with, then the relationship to others is based on something that is spiritually sound. It’s not all about impersonally relating to parish members or a vague notion of relationship with the “Communion of Saints”. It’s real and palpable, and requires that ‘other’ is important in the equation. One cannot simply go around bullying others with magisterial clap-trap and then say that theirs is the better way to Christ because it actually comes across more like “Support mental health or I’ll kill you”.

I agree with everything you’ve said, with the exception of calling the Magisterium a purveyor of “Clap-Trap”.

That statement alone makes you a non-Catholic. It’s very easy for someone in this venue to SAY that they are a Catholic, but the proof is in the pudding, isn’t it?

There is only egalitarianism in the Body of Christ, no ‘anti-male’ or subjugation of women either. If you are proposing a ‘separate but different’ policy it sounds more like the Deep South than Genesis’ male and female made in God’s image.

Do you suppose your angry statements lead others to Christ?

Do you suppose your anti-Church (anti-Christ) statements lead others to Christ?

Perhaps they DO, in a roundabout way. I don’t know.

Your agenda is quite clear. Your annoyance at my recognizing it is quite obvious. The consequences of your “positions” are for you to have to deal with with the Church.

Best to you, and please get a bit further into the Catechism than you have as yet. It’ll do you good.

 

[Q_Bee]

I agree with everything you’ve said, with the exception of calling the Magisterium a purveyor of “Clap-Trap”.

That statement alone makes you a non-Catholic. It’s very easy for someone in this venue to SAY that they are a Catholic, but the proof is in the pudding, isn’t it?

Apparently, you forget that there were many apostles. “The Church” is also the Thomas Christians, the Churches at Antioch, Alexandria, etc.

Do you suppose your anti-Church (anti-Christ) statements lead others to Christ?

It’s impossible for me to be “anti-church” since ‘we are the church’, not just the ones who are in the castle beyond the moat.

Your agenda is quite clear. Your annoyance at my recognizing it is quite obvious. The consequences of your “positions” are for you to have to deal with with the Church.

Best to you, and please get a bit further into the Catechism than you have as yet. It’ll do you good.

I’ve been teaching catechism as well as scripture-based courses for many years. It’s taught me a great deal, especially “By their fruits you will know them” and ‘Where dictatorial religiosity is displayed, Christ is not there’. So, you are in no position to tell me what will do me good.

Q<

 

[CatsAndDogs]

I’ve been teaching catechism as well as scripture-based courses for many years. It’s taught me a great deal, especially “By their fruits you will know them” and ‘Where dictatorial religiosity is displayed, Christ is not there’. So, you are in no position to tell me what will do me good.

Q<

“Dictatorial”…?

So, the Church is dictatorial?

Dissenters are such amusing people. It just proves that ego can displace ANY truth by it’s “machinations”.

Perhaps you can supply me, from your great knowledge, with where the saying is located relating to those who are most blind being those who WILL not see?

 

[Q_Bee]

Subject: Dr. Phan - “Is Christianity a Western Religion - A View of Asian Christianity”

Dr. Peter Phan ( an RC priest), of Georgetown University and theologian for the US Conference of Catholic Bishops, speaks of a global ‘Catholic’ religion, the true origins and centers of Christianity, the national origins of the early fathers of the church, the other four patriarchates, the Thomas Christians, and the so-called “Jesus Sutras” that are found on the Xian Stele that attests to Syrian missionary work in 7th century China.

Dr. Phan’s lecture is on youtube:

youtube.com/watch?v=UD1hRY19uRs

Those of you who are convinced that there is no other reality beside the magisterial POV might enjoy this lecture. It’s by one of the church’s top scholars.

Q<

 

[rinnie]

I went all the way back to early July and couldn’t find any post where you “just said that”. Maybe I missed something. Would you be so kind as to direct me to the post in which “just said that”?

Q<

sure can post 329.

 

[CatsAndDogs]

Subject: Dr. Phan - “Is Christianity a Western Religion - A View of Asian Christianity”

Dr. Peter Phan ( an RC priest), of Georgetown University and theologian for the US Conference of Catholic Bishops, …

A dissenter quoting a dissenter? How “unexpected”?

Why is he in “street clothes”?

Vatican investigates Peter Phan
Published: September 10, 2007

Why is Fr. Peter Phan under investigation?
Posted on Sep 14, 2007 09:22am CST.

Fr. Peter C Phan - CDF Investigation

…this from a cursory googling of “Dr. Peter Phan priest”

I really WOULD like to know of any outcome, or anything more recent about this fellow and that investigation.

Can anyone find any more recent information? Thanks in advance.

 

[Q_Bee]

A dissenter quoting a dissenter? How “unexpected”?

Why is he in “street clothes”?

Vatican investigates Peter Phan
Published: September 10, 2007

Why is Fr. Peter Phan under investigation?
Posted on Sep 14, 2007 09:22am CST.

Fr. Peter C Phan - CDF Investigation

…this from a cursory googling of “Dr. Peter Phan priest”

I really WOULD like to know of any outcome, or anything more recent about this fellow and that investigation.

Can anyone find any more recent information? Thanks in advance.

Did you watch the video to see what it is that he’s teaching?

Q<

 

[Gene_Church]

Perhaps for the same reasons that we have not been destroyed.

 

[CatsAndDogs]

Quote:
Originally Posted by CatsAndDogs View Post
A dissenter quoting a dissenter? How “unexpected”?

Why is he in “street clothes”?

Vatican investigates Peter Phan
Published: September 10, 2007

Why is Fr. Peter Phan under investigation?
Posted on Sep 14, 2007 09:22am CST.

Fr. Peter C Phan - CDF Investigation

…this from a cursory googling of “Dr. Peter Phan priest”

I really WOULD like to know of any outcome, or anything more recent about this fellow and that investigation.

Can anyone find any more recent information? Thanks in advance.

Did you watch the video to see what it is that he’s teaching?

First I do some research about a suggested author, THEN I check out his work.

I watched the first 10 minutes or so. I’ll get to the rest a bit later.

Do you have some “study questions” that you’d like me to answer after watching the entire lecture? I won’t mind answering them, if there aren’t TOO many.

 

[Q_Bee]

First I do some research about a suggested author, THEN I check out his work.

I watched the first 10 minutes or so. I’ll get to the rest a bit later.

Do you have some “study questions” that you’d like me to answer after watching the entire lecture? I won’t mind answering them, if there aren’t TOO many.

Sure!

According to Benedict XVI, what gives Christianity its distintively “European Character”?
Where did the Church Fathers come from?
When was the notion of “Peter and Paul at Rome” first reported and by whom?
What is “De-Hellenization”?
Where were the first nine Ecumenical Councils held?
During the first 800 years of the church, how many Church Fathers were from the West?
Who evangelized China and in what century?
What is a “stele”?

Q<

 

[davidv]

Sure!

According to Benedict XVI, what gives Christianity its distintively “European Character”?
Where did the Church Fathers come from?
When was the notion of “Peter and Paul at Rome” first reported and by whom?
What is “De-Hellenization”?
Where were the first nine Ecumenical Councils held?
During the first 800 years of the church, how many Church Fathers were from the West?
Who evangelized China and in what century?
What is a “stele”?

Q<

Please get back on topic. Thanks.

 

[Coder]

Bill Maher then asks “What’s he waiting for?”

Perhaps one thing that God is allowing time for is opportunity for people to turn from attitudes such as those expressed by Bill Maher. I have heard Bill Maher speak and I recall that his statements sometimes weren’t respectful.

 

[Q_Bee]

Please get back on topic. Thanks.

OK. Is there intrinsic evil in Dr. Phan’s lecture? Does it represent a demonic influence that warrants counter-apologetics?

Q<