Why doesn't my parish have kneelers?

[nobeerinheaven]

You should ask the priest if he meant people to be uncomfortable when they were required to kneel. Also, this might not be the individual priest’s doing. This might be somewhat imposed on them (formally or not) by the local Bishop.

 

[whatevergirl]

You should ask the priest if he meant people to be uncomfortable when they were required to kneel.

LOL–I like it–hahaha I believe it was not decided by him.

 

[belgianwaffles9]

Oh my come to think of it…the first parish we attended here in Florida–there were big bowls…and no genuflecting. People looked at us like we were nuts, and these were elderly people looking at us this way–don’t they at least remember a time when EVERYONE genuflected? They also had no kneelers…and another church we went to didn’t have kneelers. So, by the time we came to this parish, we thought we wouldn’t be able to find a parish with kneelers.

Well how old? Most of the reforms were instigated and bullied through by the hippie crowd in the 60s, so some of the most liberal ‘Catholics’ will be in their 50s and 60s by now. Dont think that ‘old’ = traditional. I think that really REALLY old usually does, but more frequently, we are seeing that YOUNG actually more equals traditional. Which is good, because it means we have a future.

EDIT: i recently discovered an easy way of seeing who else in your parish is truly traditional and devout: go to confession weekly, and see who else shows up.

 

[whatevergirl]

Well how old? Most of the reforms were instigated and bullied through by the hippie crowd in the 60s, so some of the most liberal ‘Catholics’ will be in their 50s and 60s by now. Dont think that ‘old’ = traditional. I think that really REALLY old usually does, but more frequently, we are seeing that YOUNG actually more equals traditional. Which is good, because it means we have a future.

EDIT: i recently discovered an easy way of seeing who else in your parish is truly traditional and devout: go to confession weekly, and see who else shows up.

funny u say that – I go to confession monthly…sometimes every three weeks…and sometimes, you see the same people, but that could just mean that they are going to confession elsewhere. I actually go to the very first parish we attended (and joined) for confession, but three parishes later, and I regret joining the first one. No biggie, we are going to join this third parish, but we visit the first parish for confession. Mainly for schedules. The parish we are attending for mass, has confession at an inconvenient time for the rest of my family…so, this first parish works better.

We also do not need to go to confession weekly…or even monthly, although I believe in it, as in the words of my dd…‘it helps us to keep our tabernacle clean.’ One can go to confession yearly, or twice yearly…and still be a devout Catholic.

 

[Catholicracer]

Theres a Parish near where I live(southeast Georgia) that does not have kneelers. I asked someone there about it and they said that the parish building it self has just recently been built and they just have not been able to afford kneelers.

 

[scylla]

We also do not need to go to confession weekly…or even monthly, although I believe in it, as in the words of my dd…‘it helps us to keep our tabernacle clean.’ One can go to confession yearly, or twice yearly…and still be a devout Catholic.

Your right one can go infrequently if one is very holy and not too sinful. I am pretty sinful and I need to go often. Some can go a while without sinning but unfortunately I cannot.
But from what I have read most Saints they went to confession often.
So either we have a bunch of parishes with very saintly people going to confession often or a whole bunch of sacrilege going on.
Lets be charitable and pretend they are going to other parishes, but we should encourage a return to faithfulness to the Church in all aspects.

God Bless
Scylla

 

[whatevergirl]

Your right one can go infrequently if one is very holy and not too sinful. I am pretty sinful and I need to go often. Some can go a while without sinning but unfortunately I cannot.
But from what I have read most Saints they went to confession often.
So either we have a bunch of parishes with very saintly people going to confession often or a whole bunch of sacrilege going on.
Lets be charitable and pretend they are going to other parishes, but we should encourage a return to faithfulness to the Church in all aspects.

God Bless
Scylla

I agree–My venial sins add up rather quickly over a short amount of time. I have confessed mortal sins in the past…even ones that I have forgotten to mention in the past–recently, that just sprung to mind. But, even if one goes frequently, it is ok to say that that person could easily succomb to the same mortal sin a short time afterwards. I mean, everyone struggles to varying degrees with their sin. Hopefully, the road to repentance can be shorter, but it is very healthy to go often–even for venial sins. My dd is only 11 and goes along with me often, and she doesn’t have mortal sin–I don’t think But, yes, I have read too that many saints went often…it is healthy to keep one’s self…‘de-toxed’ from sin. Thanks for your post!

PS: It does seem like the communion lines are always much much longer than the confessional lines…on any given week…in any given year. It is hard to judge…because we don’t know people’s hearts…their sin life. It is always so uplifting to see long lines during advent and lent though…I noticed a HUGE increase of people…where they had three confessionals open right before Christmas…my son, dd and I were like…wow…this is nice to see so many people here!

 

[E.E.N.S]

Whatevergirl, have you ever read Pope St. Pius X’s Pascendi Dominici Gregis? I think it will help you see what some of the posters are referring to when they speak of wolves, dumb dogs and/or subversion of the Catholic Faith.

It’s a very good and revelent read!

 

[True_to_Him]

Basically kneeling is a pagan custom related to the worship of the king as a god. Judaism and Christianity are covenant religions. The worshipper relates to God via a contract (covenant). How often have you knelt before a person with whom you have a contract? I don’t kneel before my employer or my wife or my mortgage lender. I don’t expect any of them to kneel before me. I don’t need to kneel before God. That’s not how I relate to him.

Matthew

Is

 

[True_to_Him]

Is

Is it not a sign of humility to kneel before God to revere him? After all, St. Paul said
at the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven, on earth, and under the earth, and every tongue confess that the Lord Jesus Christ is the glory of God the Father.

 

[rpp]

This is on my parish’s website, a question and answer section for the head pastor of the church. I always wondered why some parishes (ours) don’t have kneelers…and here is the answer…(in case you wondered if it was appropriate)

***People have asked:

Why do we not have kneelers?

The normative posture for prayer in the Hebrew Scriptures and in the New Testament was standing. Up through the 11th century, in fact, “kneeling was not considered an official posture for the eucharistic prayer” and the Council of Nicea (325) even legislated specifically against kneeling at Sunday liturgy. In fact, it was not until the 13th century, that kneeling arose during the Eucharistic prayer as an act of veneration and adoration at the Elevation of the Host. The adoption of the Missal of 1570 resulted in a practice in which everyone would eventually be found either kneeling or genuflecting at the consecration. Eventually kneeling became the norm throughout the entire mass.

Even though the revision of the GIRM in 1969 called for standing during the Eucharistic prayer, the bishops of the United States voted to retain the custom of kneeling. The new edition of the GIRM indicates that the faithful should stand “from the invitation Pray, brethren, until the end of mass. In the United States, however, this practice is supplanted by a directive for kneeling “ beginning after the singing of the Sanctus until after the Amen of the Eucharistic Prayer, and again after the Lamb of God, unless the local Bishop determines otherwise.

In this parish, as our old church was a multi-purpose building, we had the practice of standing. The Bishop gave us permission to continue that practice which actually allows us to be in conformity with the directive for the universal church.

GIRM = General Instruction of the Roman Missal. ***

There are factual errors with the text cited.

The 1969 GIRM required kneeling during the Consecration. It was not a US Bishop idea.

adoremus.org/699_Knee.html

Plus the 1969 GIRM has been superseded anyway.

                 The 1975 GIRM provided for the faithful to kneel                     from after the Sanctus (“Holy, Holy, Holy”) to after                     the Great Amen. Though it was the American custom                     to kneel also after the Agnus Dei (“Lamb of God”),                     this was not provided for in the law, though Rome in-dicated                     that it did not object to the practice.

                The new American adaptations now expressly                     provide for kneeling after the Agnus Dei, though the                     local bishop may choose to suspend this practice. The                     current law regarding when the faithful should kneel is                     as follows:
                
                “In the dioceses of the United States of America,                     [the faithful] should kneel beginning after the singing                     or recitation of the Sanctus until after the Amen of the                     Eucharistic Prayer, except when prevented on occasion                     by reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of                     people present, or some other good reason. Those who                     do not kneel ought to make a profound bow when the                     priest genuflects after the consecration. The faithful                     kneel after the Agnus Dei unless the diocesan bishop                     determines otherwise” (43).

catholic.com/library/liturgy/cag_changes.asp

Parishes are not required to have kneelers. Worshipers are still required to kneel.

Here is a link to the current GIRM itself.
usccb.org/liturgy/current/revmissalisromanien.shtml

Scroll to number paragraph 43 to see the description of the posture at different points of the Mass.