Why evolution doesnt matter.

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Hi Grannymh,

My specialty is not in research, and I am not a “deep web” navigator, but try:

oliversacks.com/hat.htm

drjilltaylor.com/articles.html

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-brain

nature.com/nrn/journal/v6/n8/abs/nrn1740.html

scienceray.com/biology/human-biology/are-two-minds-better-than-one-separate-but-not-equal/

My own experience with the realm of ideas that surround some of the factors in this area have to do with a mild trauma experienced in a game of touch football. My entire concept of what it means to be a “person” and how we experience that was unceremoniously and summarily pulled out from under me. I looked far and wide in the annals of Catholic resources for a cogent explanation of my new basis for understanding. My knowledge of Catholic theology was not insignificant at the time, having won prizes in knowledge of Church teaching even on a State-wide basis. I found nothing that clearly interpreted nor properly classifies what happened to me. It deeply disturbed me that my tyro understanding was not adequately addressed by either clerics or literature.

I eventually came upon a system of philosophy that accounted, for me and from my experience, for not only what befell me, but gave me an ordered system, over time, that was far more inclusive both fundamentally and practically than the cumbersome and veiled offerings of the Church, which had now seemed to me to engage in a two millennia campaign of obscurantism about something both very simple and very basic, though rare, to and in human experience.

Put simply, it became clear to me that, generally speaking, religiosity, particularly the Abrahamic religions, had truck primarily with the contents of awareness, not the nature of human Conscious awareness itself. In fact, “conscious” and “aware” seemed to be used interchangeably and I had discovered that that is not the case. And as other systems started at the point of discovering the nature of the container which holds experience, namely the mind, christianism barely touches on that, save perhaps in such statements as Paul’s “now we see as through a glass darkly.”

In other words christianism fails to integrate the two major modes of edifying human awareness ability in a forthright and clear manner, leaving it to the individual to blunder through obscure and veiled methodology, whereas there are direct, if work intensive, techniques for arriving at the necessary experiential understanding. Other than suffering trauma, that would be the recommended way, in my opinion.

Unfortunately, since these methods tend to remove the underpinnings of faith, that being a questionable foundation for the rational mind to begin with, and put them on a practical and utilitarian, yet cosmically profound foundation, the Church tends to discount any effort in that direction. Yet, ultimately, before its attempt to popularize The Way, it is exactly where the Church stems from, whether the pious like that notion or not. Direct experience would clear that objection in short order, as I found, and as many thousands of others have as well.

That is all I have to say at the moment, as I have written extensively on these fora about this topic and have been met with derision. Others have done similarly and have excused themselves from these fora for similar reasons to my reception. That, I feel, has been to the detriment and loss of many on these pages. Tragic, in fact. Please tell me if anyone thinks that God is in the least effected by a sincere inquiry into the origins of faith and of practical inquiry into the nature of one’s Self? Why has it said for aeons in all the teachings: “Gnothi Seauton?” Know ThySelf. The reluctance to make that inquiry is in my opinion a sign of weakness in faith as faith, and a poor advertisement for it, along with the factions and discord it causes. God is not divided against HimSelf or The Self.
 
Warpspeedpetey,
You are correct…evolution doesn’t matter to a faitful catholic educated in the faith.
It does matter however, that evolution is without a doubt the second biggest fraud perpetrated on mankind and our children in the public schools. It is an attempt by atheists to lead people away from their faith and for manyy, it is working.

The largest fraud is of course the “climate change” swindle put forth by Al Gore. The swindle is that he and others like him will reap the profits and we who can’t do anything about this will pay the bill which includes our pocketbooks as well as our freedom.

God Bless,
 
Hi Grannymh,

My specialty is not in research, and I am not a “deep web” navigator, but try:

oliversacks.com/hat.htm

drjilltaylor.com/articles.html

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-brain

nature.com/nrn/journal/v6/n8/abs/nrn1740.html

scienceray.com/biology/human-biology/are-two-minds-better-than-one-separate-but-not-equal/

My own experience with the realm of ideas that surround some of the factors in this area have to do with a mild trauma experienced in a game of touch football. My entire concept of what it means to be a “person” and how we experience that was unceremoniously and summarily pulled out from under me. I looked far and wide in the annals of Catholic resources for a cogent explanation of my new basis for understanding. My knowledge of Catholic theology was not insignificant at the time, having won prizes in knowledge of Church teaching even on a State-wide basis. I found nothing that clearly interpreted nor properly classifies what happened to me. It deeply disturbed me that my tyro understanding was not adequately addressed by either clerics or literature.

I eventually came upon a system of philosophy that accounted, for me and from my experience, for not only what befell me, but gave me an ordered system, over time, that was far more inclusive both fundamentally and practically than the cumbersome and veiled offerings of the Church, which had now seemed to me to engage in a two millennia campaign of obscurantism about something both very simple and very basic, though rare, to and in human experience.

Put simply, it became clear to me that, generally speaking, religiosity, particularly the Abrahamic religions, had truck primarily with the contents of awareness, not the nature of human Conscious awareness itself. In fact, “conscious” and “aware” seemed to be used interchangeably and I had discovered that that is not the case. And as other systems started at the point of discovering the nature of the container which holds experience, namely the mind, christianism barely touches on that, save perhaps in such statements as Paul’s “now we see as through a glass darkly.”

In other words christianism fails to integrate the two major modes of edifying human awareness ability in a forthright and clear manner, leaving it to the individual to blunder through obscure and veiled methodology, whereas there are direct, if work intensive, techniques for arriving at the necessary experiential understanding. Other than suffering trauma, that would be the recommended way, in my opinion.

Unfortunately, since these methods tend to remove the underpinnings of faith, that being a questionable foundation for the rational mind to begin with, and put them on a practical and utilitarian, yet cosmically profound foundation, the Church tends to discount any effort in that direction. Yet, ultimately, before its attempt to popularize The Way, it is exactly where the Church stems from, whether the pious like that notion or not. Direct experience would clear that objection in short order, as I found, and as many thousands of others have as well.

That is all I have to say at the moment, as I have written extensively on these fora about this topic and have been met with derision. Others have done similarly and have excused themselves from these fora for similar reasons to my reception. That, I feel, has been to the detriment and loss of many on these pages. Tragic, in fact. Please tell me if anyone thinks that God is in the least effected by a sincere inquiry into the origins of faith and of practical inquiry into the nature of one’s Self? Why has it said for aeons in all the teachings: “Gnothi Seauton?” Know ThySelf. The reluctance to make that inquiry is in my opinion a sign of weakness in faith as faith, and a poor advertisement for it, along with the factions and discord it causes. God is not divided against HimSelf or The Self.
Thank you for the links. I will check them out.
 
Warpspeedpetey,
You are correct…evolution doesn’t matter to a faitful catholic educated in the faith.
It does matter however, that evolution is without a doubt the second biggest fraud perpetrated on mankind and our children in the public schools. It is an attempt by atheists to lead people away from their faith and for manyy, it is working.

The largest fraud is of course the “climate change” swindle put forth by Al Gore. The swindle is that he and others like him will reap the profits and we who can’t do anything about this will pay the bill which includes our pocketbooks as well as our freedom.

God Bless,
I found your post a little confusing.

First, you are saying the (1) “climate change” swindle is a bigger fraud than (2) atheists using evolution to lead people away from their faith. Does this mean the first problem is worse because it will hit you in the pocketbook whereas the second will not?

Second, there are different theories of evolution. Do you think a non-materialist version of evolution is false as well? If so, what are your reasons for thinking it is false?

Third, the “climate change” swindle was not “put forth by Al Gore.” That is, Al Gore did not invent global warming. (He only claimed to have invented the internet. I’m not sure what he was smokin’ that day). Al Gore merely jumped on the “global warming” bandwagon.

I think Al Gore is a fraud, but we can’t blame him, or anyone else, without being hypocrites in the process if we don’t do what we can to reduce unnecessary exploitation and pollution of the environment. Our consumption oriented society unnecessarily exploits and pollutes.

Mahatma Gandhi said, “The earth can provide for every man’s need, but not every man’s greed.” Are we to challenge how much humans are said to contribute to global warming without doing anything to reduce our unnecessary exploitation and destruction of natural resources? Watch just how consumption oriented almost everyone gets toward Christmas.
 
I accept that evolution exists, and go a step further and hold that those who deny evolution actually harm Christian credibility. The evidence is clear, no matter how much “young Earthers” want to deny it…I just find it very hard to believe that we are simply the BIG winner in some random molecular shakeout. From my theistic perspective, God elevated man from the beasts at some stage in the evolutionary history of the world that He set in motion.
S.J., I like your post. But what do you mean by “God elevated man”? Does the evolutionary process stop at this point?
 
www.storyofstuff.com

Itinerant1, thanks for your level-headed reply to BC.
It’s about way too much stuff. More stuff than is needed for a truly good life.

I oppose the “Can” philosophy of life in which one acquires all the stuff they can; cans all the stuff they get, and then sits on their can.

I started working on simplifying my life many years ago. About 6 six years ago I got rid of my car. I have not bought a gallon of gas in 6 years, or had to pay car insurance, car repairs or car payments. My internet handle “itinerant” weren’t for nothing. I chose to go itinerant over my previous life style. My reasons were practical, environmental and spiritual.

I realize not everybody can practically do what I do and they truly need a motor vehicle, but so far I have been able to make it work for myself. I’m loving this way of living!

Americans spend so much money on stuff they think will make them happy, or will make life easier for them, but they end up working so much to pay for the stuff they bought on credit, they cannot spend very much time time enjoying the things they bought. Within a materialistic mindset, its all a catch 22 scenario.

The real question is what do we actually “need” to live a good life. And what constitutes a truly good life? I think considerations based on human nature itself that there is more than a merely subjective and relative determination on what constitutes a truly good life for any individual. It’s a question of needs versus desires.

I will look at the story of stuff link while at work today. For example, folks don’t realize that in the quest for better water they buy bottled purified water without realizing how much petroleum product goes into producing the plastic bottles for the water. It’s an environmental tragedy. We should not keep buying purified water in the small plastic bottles. There are better alternatives for drinking purified water.

Al Gore probably buys and uses lots of bottled water while using individualized, unnecessary transportation to environmental related meetings. Most politicians and former politicians do not have a true sense of environmentalism. Environmentalism for them is useful politically to get involved with while they continue their “high on the hog” so to speak life style.

This has nothing at all to do with Democratic versus Republican occupiers of the White House, past or present. I don’t think Bush could care one whit about consumerism and the problems it creates with the environment. Obama has already revealed his true position with unnecessary entourages of many vehicles and flights to speaking engagements.
 
Warpspeedpetey, You are correct…evolution doesn’t matter to a faitful catholic educated in the faith. It does matter however, that evolution is without a doubt the second biggest fraud perpetrated on mankind and our children in the public schools. It is an attempt by atheists to lead people away from their faith and for manyy, it is working. The largest fraud is of course the “climate change” swindle put forth by Al Gore. The swindle is that he and others like him will reap the profits and we who can’t do anything about this will pay the bill which includes our pocketbooks as well as our freedom.

God Bless,
Billycatholic, do you have any evidence to substantiate your claims about evolution and global warming being “frauds”?
 
If this is forum based on biblical truths, then should we not expect arguments for or against evolution be backed by scripture? I havn’t found any evidence in the text “for” as of yet, and none in this forum biblically “against”.

Ryan
 
If this is forum based on biblical truths, then should we not expect arguments for or against evolution be backed by scripture? I havn’t found any evidence in the text “for” as of yet, and none in this forum biblically “against”.

Ryan
Evolution theory is a scientific theory, while the Bible does not teach science. The Bible teaches religious and moral truths.

There are theories of evolution that are materialist and thus conflict with religious truth. However, a theory of evolution that is strictly scientific, one that does not try to explain more than it is capable of doing, will not conflict with religious truths contained in the Bible. That is my view.

We cannot use the Bible to challenge scientific theories because the Bible does not teach natural science. The Old Testament, for instance, reflects the pre-scientific cosmology of the ancient near east.

Nonetheless, you are more than welcome to argue any differences of opinion you might have.
 
Billycatholic, do you have any evidence to substantiate your claims about evolution and global warming being “frauds”?
Those who choose to be blind to evidence will never see it no matter how many times they ask. Those who are dependent solely on man made evidence risk missing God’s evidence.

Human beings cannot be reduced to solely biological evidence no matter how high one waves the flag of assumptions.
 
I think we should stick to the topic of evolution in this thread and not veer off any further into global warming arguments. Global warming is a rather complex subject and merits its own thread for discussion.
 
For the Christian, God is properly He, even though God has no actual sexual identity. Jesus was a man and had a Father.
Agree. The God is one. Gender is a “comfort”.
Comfort is a good intention. Let it be.
Some Christians believe in the unexamined idea that if we attach God to the theory of evolution, that makes it OK. It becomes theologically acceptable and scientifically acceptable
. . . . . . So once again, if you connect God to evolution, What did He do?

Designer out of natural causes.
**Coexistence **with her (his) children in our civilizations.

Natural mechanisms are “natural” because of “lives”.

Beings living in another. A “Being” started from “none” by BIRTH.

Admires in sentences. You can really help by helping others.
Some may save a massive number by KNOWLEDGE.
If not, by those around you.

A Message of Peace.

Teru Wong
 
God doesn’t “do.” Ascribing “doing” to God is a comfort similar or identical to ascribing gender. Evolution, the appearance of evolution, that is to say, is a homocentric partial assessment of the appearance of BEing from the standpoint of the human awareness which has as a component change. The appearance of the re-deification of “material” (Mother/feminine) into God (Father/masculine) appears to the human as evolution as the Universe, which means “to turn into One,” Knows itself through innumerable agencies such as Man. Life is not the manifestations of Life, but the pressure of manifestation, inclusion and transcendence of forms in Universe such that it may Know itself in all minutiae and all Completeness.

“In the Beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,” in the sense that a woman is “with child.” “Word” is a Conscious aware Identity with “vibration” as what we perceive as a component of everything, to the very flashing in and out of existence of the smallest atomic particles. Vibration and its increasing complexities are the manifestation of the God Knowing in fullness ALL THAT IS. Why do you think it says to Know ThySelf? Because to Know ThySelf is to Know God. Be still, and Know that (your) I AM (is) God, limited for the moment as your awakening action on a plane of awareness called Earth. That is the point of evolution. It is what Chardin called “The Omega Point.” It is what is known as Realization. It is what you call “Salvation.” The implication is simple and clear for those who have ears and eyes.
 
Rwaechter~If this is forum based on biblical truths,… It might be more useful in this context to state “biblical truths” as something like “individual scriptural interpretations some of us use as bases for stringing thoughts as if they were fact.” We again encounter the baffling phenomenon of the denial by religionists of the difference between fact and belief. We need to remember that religious belief, like any belief, is an adult posture of “lets pretend.” Science, dealing strictly with a particular way of knowing, fits as well into this category, but at least it admits its limitations, is amenable to change with new data, and can in some instances predict future events based on its premises with utility. Religion has no such advantage, and as where science brings unified understanding at least of phenomena, religion is a divisive factor in human experience. It is as well useless to claim that religion promotes “good,” because “good” exists on an axis independent from religion and only in certain instances appears to be congruent with it as a mental construct.
 
Dear NowAgnostic,

I sympathize with your frustration at the apparent obscurity of Scholastic metaphysical terminology.

I should add that I quit the Catholic Church when I was 28, largely because its philosophy did not make sense to me. I spent more than 15 years outside the Church, before returning to it a few years ago. I did not find “better answers” outside the Church, but I had a lot of time to think, search for truth and put together pieces of the jig-saw puzzle.

During the past few years, I have been attempting to equate Aristotle’s terminology with some contemporary jargon used in computer science.

For starters, I refer you to a post of mine at Uncommon Descent:

uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/confusion-about-dualism-abated/#comment-310096

I hope this goes some way towards resolving your question about atomic essences.

Regarding your queries on the evidence for an immaterial human soul, may I refer you to this Web page which I have been putting together for the past four years:

angelfire.com/linux/vjtorley/whybelieve2.html

It should answer every question you have, and then some. Happy hunting!

Best wishes,

Vincent Torley
 
If this is forum based on biblical truths, then should we not expect arguments for or against evolution be backed by scripture? I havn’t found any evidence in the text “for” as of yet, and none in this forum biblically “against”. Ryan
Ryan, to broaden your critique of non-biblical science, I haven’t yet found any evidence in the biblical text either for or against the theory of gravity.
 
Re: Whuffo’ evolushun doesnt matter.

Biology is th’ only science in which multiplicashun means th’ same thin’ as divishun.
 
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