Why God has no mercy to unchristian?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Bahman
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
inocente said:
You got confused by reading the verse out of context. Read the whole passage, Matthew 12:22-37, and you’ll see that Jesus isn’t speaking to atheists or Buddhists or whatever. The only people present are believers, which include His own followers and the Pharisees.

Jesus says that everything can be forgiven except blasphemy against the Spirit, something which only a believer could do, and which cannot be forgiven because that “was to speak against God’s work recognized as such, against God manifesting himself to their consciences (cf. vers. 27, 28); it was to reject the counsel of God towards them, to set themselves up in opposition to God, and thus to exclude from themselves forgiveness” (Pulpit Commentary).

God cannot forgive it because it involves a wrong belief about who God is, and so anyone who does it has cut himself off from the real God, and can never know forgiveness.

btw here are two more verses out of context:
Mark 9:40 - for whoever is not against us is for us
Luke 9:50 - “Do not stop him,” Jesus said, “for whoever is not against you is for you.”
Click to expand...
I read the whole passage and found it contradictory. He is Son of man and God so any word against him is against the spirit as well.
 
Bahman said:
So why Jesus said those words, quoted in OP, if anyone is subjected to his mercy?
Click to expand...
Jesus is making reference to the fact that he gives us the choice to follow him or not. It has nothing to do with his mercy. Actually, isn’t it merciful to give us a choice rather than not? His mercy is dealt with more in other passages like the prodigal son. But, for those who refuse his help he leaves to their own devices to suffer the fruit of their own choices. In order that hopefully like the prodigal son they will eventually come to their senses and come back to him.
 
Bahman said:
I don’t know where did you get your understanding from (God deals two ways with non-Christian). This is pretty opposite to the verse I quoted in OP.
Click to expand...
This is not God dealing in two ways - he punishes those who try to destroy his people and he has mercy on those who help his people - that is how he deals with those who do not follow him.
That is a single way of dealing with people. So, what are you doing, helping his people or trying to confuse and scatter his people? Then you know how he will deal with you, by what you are doing.
 
Bahman said:
God should be just to everybody.
Click to expand...
Just to elaborate a little further (and honestly, I am poking in the dark here, cause I’m not sure if you believe in God, so…)

God is an omnipotent, omniscient, all sufficient being in himself, and has no need for you and I.
Without us, he could just be, and skip the aggravation of sickness, suffering, rejection, genocide, etc…that all come from his creatures. I’d imagine he’d turn on some ESPN and watch classic football games of the 1960’s without the interference of our pathetic intentions.

We are his creatures.
We are not God. We have weaknesses, we fail, we are cruel to one another, we reject God, we get sick, we suffer, we blame him for it all.

There is no small gulf between you and I, and the God who created us. A rather large gap in fact, An infinite gap. Think about it. We are talking about God, who can make something out of nothing, and us.
We are supposed to be something like God, but we do a piddling job of doing it.

You want God to be just…
given the above information, if God were to act on his justice, you and I would be vaporized into nothingness. That would be our just deserts, in light of our murdering stealing rejecting selves.
Bahman said:
God should be just to everybody.
Click to expand...
Be careful what you ask for.
 
Bahman said:
Matthew 12:30: Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.
Click to expand...
Jesus also said regarding others using his name to expel demons - that

he that is not against us is for us…
 
Bahman said:
Matthew 12:30: Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.
Click to expand...
Haydock Commentary:

Matthew 12, Ver. 30.
He that is not with me. This sentence is not to be understood as directly spoken of heretics and schismatics, although at first sight it may appear so, but of the devil, who wishes to lead the souls of men captive, whilst Christ wishes to free them. He entices men to wickedness, Jesus Christ draws them to virtue: how therefore can the works of Christ be compared with those of Satan! (St. Jerome) — There is no medium. We must either be with Christ, or against Christ: if we are not of Christ, whose then must we be, when nothing but sin can separate us from Christ and God? Oh, where will the generality of Christians, who shew themselves so indifferent with regard to salvation, find themselves at the last day? Can they say they are with Christ?
 
fisherman_carl said:
Jesus is making reference to the fact that he gives us the choice to follow him or not. It has nothing to do with his mercy. Actually, isn’t it merciful to give us a choice rather than not? His mercy is dealt with more in other passages like the prodigal son. But, for those who refuse his help he leaves to their own devices to suffer the fruit of their own choices. In order that hopefully like the prodigal son they will eventually come to their senses and come back to him.
Click to expand...
Actually, the word “against” is not very friendly so I don’t think that that passage is about setting people free to follow him or not.
 
John_Martin said:
This is not God dealing in two ways - he punishes those who try to destroy his people and he has mercy on those who help his people - that is how he deals with those who do not follow him.
That is a single way of dealing with people. So, what are you doing, helping his people or trying to confuse and scatter his people? Then you know how he will deal with you, by what you are doing.
Click to expand...
Why we should have two groups? One God and one group. Why anyone should want to destroy God’s people?
 
Vico said:
Haydock Commentary:

Matthew 12, Ver. 30.
He that is not with me. This sentence is not to be understood as directly spoken of heretics and schismatics, although at first sight it may appear so, but of the devil, who wishes to lead the souls of men captive, whilst Christ wishes to free them. He entices men to wickedness, Jesus Christ draws them to virtue: how therefore can the works of Christ be compared with those of Satan! (St. Jerome) — There is no medium. We must either be with Christ, or against Christ: if we are not of Christ, whose then must we be, when nothing but sin can separate us from Christ and God? Oh, where will the generality of Christians, who shew themselves so indifferent with regard to salvation, find themselves at the last day? Can they say they are with Christ?
Click to expand...
You cannot divide people into two groups when there is only one God. One God one group.
 
Bahman said:
Why we should have two groups? One God and one group. Why anyone should want to destroy God’s people?
Click to expand...
Do you stay near people who hurt you as well as stay near people who help you?
Why do you keep people far from you who hurt you and keep people near you who help you?
Why not keep everyone near you Bahman? Both the ones who help you AND the ones who hurt you - one Bahman, one people near him, both those who hurt him AND those who help him? We are like God, he made us in his image, so, do you stay far from some people but stay close to other people?
 
Bahman said:
Nothing more that justice.
Click to expand...
Justice means giving a person what is due to him.
It does not mean giving someone mercy.
Mercy is a different Virtue than the Virtue of Justice.
Mercy is not due to anyone, but a gift.

And, God declares (so we do not presume upon his mercy) “I will show mercy to whomever I choose to show mercy”
In other words, “It is for my own reasons when I show mercy if and when I show mercy, it is not because you agree with me or not in your own reasoning about it”.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top