Why God should need a messenger?

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Peter_Plato said:
To what extent do you exist? How do you know for certain that you actually do?

Perhaps what you are rejecting or think you are “forced” to accept is not existence but a pseudo-existence of sorts, separated from Being Itself.

Ergo, you don’t fully exist, therefore you aren’t accepting or rejected existence, but a crippled notion of it. Which means you aren’t “forced” to exist since what you have isn’t what you suppose it is.
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Perhaps I’m your God and am testing you?

You don’t know that I’m not.
 
987mk said:
It’s not a miracle. There is a natural explanation as to why he survived.

A miracle is something that cannot be explained by natural means.

Here’s the explanation and an account of a 22 month old who survived after being under icy water for 2 hours.

iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/child-survived-almost-2-hours-cpr-after-falling-icy-stream-how

It would be a miracle if a child survived after being submerged in a hot tub for 2 hours.
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The medical professionals disagree with you…are you more qualified than them?

With a MS in Biochemistry it is my pleasure to inform you by God’s grace that when water freezes it expands creating sharp ice crystals that easily rupture the cellular membrane thereby destroying the cell and humans are very susceptible to this kind of cellular damage (hence frost bite)…the more frozen a person is the less likely they are to survive…the more of a miracle it is.
 
tifischer said:
Your parents chose to conceive you and God made it so.

Without your existence you would not have life, love, joy or any of the other treasures of life and heaven. And, now that you are alive in choosing Jesus there is no choosing death and there is no eternal damnation : ) you can bring the love of God into people’s lives and hope in all things. Even before I became a Christian I had to admit that I wanted to believe there is a heaven…it’s a pretty good idea even to an agnostic. :cool:
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Without existence, I would not have eternal damnation.
 
tifischer said:
The medical professionals disagree with you…are you more qualified than them?

With a MS in Biochemistry it is my pleasure to inform you by God’s grace that when water freezes it expands creating sharp ice crystals that easily rupture the cellular membrane thereby destroying the cell and humans are very susceptible to this kind of cellular damage (hence frost bite)…the more frozen a person is the less likely they are to survive…the more of a miracle it is.
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There is a natural explanation as to why people ( children especially) survive extended periods of time submerged in ice cold water.
 
987mk said:
There is a natural explanation as to why people ( children especially) survive extended periods of time submerged in ice cold water.
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Not without extensive cellular damage. And you still seem to be overlooking the point that the kid was dead…recorded dead for 45 minutes. The professional Dr who has a MD in medicine said it was a miracle. Are you saying your more qualified than him and the nurses who also said it was a miracle?
 
tifischer said:
Not without extensive cellular damage. And you still seem to be overlooking the point that the kids was dead…recorded dead for 45 minutes. The professional Dr who has a MD in medicine said it was a miracle. Are you saying your more qualified than him and the nurses who also said it was a miracle?
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There is a natural explanation why people ( children especially) survive cold water drowning.

A miracle only occurs when there is no natural explanation.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2054134

academia.edu/151354/Drowning_Survival_in_Icy_Water_A_Review

seattletimes.com/seattle-news/boys-survival-from-near-drowning-has-medical-explanations/
 
davidv said:
Why does existence require damnation? Damnation is chosen, not predetermined.
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You’d have to ask God.

Existence comes first, then the choice of damnation.

Without existence, there is no damnation.
 
987mk said:
There is a natural explanation why people ( children especially) survive cold water drowning.

A miracle only occurs when there is no natural explanation.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2054134

academia.edu/151354/Drowning_Survival_in_Icy_Water_A_Review

seattletimes.com/seattle-news/boys-survival-from-near-drowning-has-medical-explanations/
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The professional Dr said it was a miracle because he was pronounced dead…not an unconscious survivor or in a comma but pronounced medically dead…for 45 minutes. He was not a survivor medically for 45 minutes…and came to life without medical intervention. The Dr said it was a miracle.
 
tifischer said:
The professional Dr said it was a miracle because he was pronounced dead…not an unconscious survivor or in a comma but pronounced medically dead…for 45 minutes. He was not a survivor medically for 45 minutes…and came to life without medical intervention. The Dr said it was a miracle.
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And further more…
Article one refers to children who have suffered hypothermia but not death and recovery is not a high rate and only with medical intervention and even more importantly prevention. Thus the article does not have a natural reason.

Article two says that “The authors did not observe any potentially benecial eect on the outcome o drowned children as a result o rapid hypothermia caused by submersion in coldwater (Suominen et al., 1997).” and considering the boy was under water for 15 minutes the article does not provide a natural reason for what happened.

And article three the boy never was declared dead and his heart was started again through the help of medical professionals.
 
This thread has apparently been hijacked. The OP asked why God should need a messenger. I suggest that 987mk tifischer take their discussion elsewhere.
 
987mk said:
The choice only exists if God forced us into existence and then forces us to choose.
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I’m sorry to hear that your life is so miserable that you’d prefer non-existence over the opportunity to exist in eternal peace and joy. Thank you for being an example as to why life is so precious, and why having a choice is immeasurably better than being denied the choice to begin with.
 
seagal said:
This thread has apparently been hijacked. The OP asked why God should need a messenger. I suggest that 987mk tifischer take their discussion elsewhere.
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Unintentionally perhaps… my apologies, I will try to maintain the topic of messengers.
 
987mk said:
Did the angels have a choice to exist or not exist?

Did God make that decision for them or was it their choice?
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God chose for them to exist. He is their Creator. You sometimes choose for something to exist - an idea, for example. Then you can cause the idea to cease to exist, if you choose. What did the idea do to deserve that? All it did was displease you. All it did was lack conformity with what you consider good ideas.

We are God’s creatures, just as our ideas are our creatures.
 
tifischer said:
The professional Dr said it was a miracle because he was pronounced dead…not an unconscious survivor or in a comma but pronounced medically dead…for 45 minutes. He was not a survivor medically for 45 minutes…and came to life without medical intervention. The Dr said it was a miracle.
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There is a natural explanation as to why people who are submerged under ice cold water for ridiculously long periods of time, who are pronounced dead and who are later revived.

Interesting that this “miracle” never occurs with warm water.
 
BChartowski said:
I’m sorry to hear that your life is so miserable that you’d prefer non-existence over the opportunity to exist in eternal peace and joy. Thank you for being an example as to why life is so precious, and why having a choice is immeasurably better than being denied the choice to begin with.
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My life is amazing.

Three beautiful and healthy children.

A job that pays well and one that I enjoy.

Good friends, neighbours and an extended family I see regularly.

However, if I didn’t exist, I wouldn’t know it now would I?
 
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