Why I am Drifting from Catholicism to Islam

[wth1257]

Actually, I was wrong.

He posted just yesterday (here).

He does appear more interested in lurking and not being responsive though, in his “answers” or “questions”:

…that, plus his profile self-identification as “Islmamish”, and the fact that he’s an “islamish-ite” blithering about “alcohol” rather puts him in the “not particularly serious person” categorie to me.

But, once again, I may be wrong!

Serious issue, that doesn’t mean I am unwilling to have pleasant dialogue with pleasant members, I’m not yet a Muslim, either way I don’t drink as I have alcoholics in my family, a friend of mine did get drunk out of his mind in downtown Athens and my British friend and I had to carry him back to the London Hotel. After force-feeding him water to prevent a horrid hangover, my friend taught me that maxim, though it’s really non of your business. Simply because I do not reply to all thoughtful posts doesn’t mean I am not reading them.

 

[wth1257]

Here is a quote from Augustine Club of Columbia.edu.
It may give a clearer idea of the Trinity:

See The Uniqueness of Christianity for more

That’s interesting, however I believe St. Augustine DID claim each person of the Trinity was of distinct substance.

I’ll check.

thanks

 

[Glaucon]

Well, it sounds as though you’ve already made up your mind, OP. So why bother opening up this can of worms in the first place? Sounds awfully a lot like trolling to me. Or maybe you’re doing this out of a smug sense of superiority over us “hypocrites” you get whenever you think of converting?

So if you’ve made up your mind, then go. Do it. Enough with the bickering already.

Otherwise, stay.

 

[CatsAndDogs]

Serious issue, that doesn’t mean I am unwilling to have pleasant dialogue with pleasant members, I’m not yet a Muslim, either way I don’t drink as I have alcoholics in my family, a friend of mine did get drunk out of his mind in downtown Athens and my British friend and I had to carry him back to the London Hotel. After force-feeding him water to prevent a horrid hangover, my friend taught me that maxim, though it’s really non of your business. Simply because I do not reply to all thoughtful posts doesn’t mean I am not reading them.

Does your definition of “pleasant dialogue” encompass me telling you that if you can’t accept that God is the Holy Trinity then you’re not a Christian, much less a Catholic, and should call yourself a non-Catholic (non-Christian) as you have already massively distanced yourself from the Church?

You stated (post#1):
Those are the two most egregious doctrines, though naturally there are a plethora of issues, however I have slept little and it is late. I have not left the Church yet, before I did I would want to read the entire Catechism and most major ecumenical Councilor documents, however the primary reason I remain in the Church is social pressure.

You HAVE left the Church. Be honest. May your journey into islam bring you at least to where you can adulterate real islam so as to follow it according to God’s will which He has shown us by natural law, so that you have at least some chance for eternal life in God,…

…and may your journey at best show you with as little suffering as possible the price of following the accumulated heresies of islam and the need to return to God’s Church.

 

[Sister_Amy]

inJESUS, you got me again!

I neglected to mention the Shafi’i opinion about touching women because I think it’s pretty stupid. Personally. Bad of me to think of a scholarly opinion that way, but I do. More importantly, it wasn’t exactly relevant, and I’m not sure what you wanted to prove by bringing it up.

It is true that the Shafi’i opinion understands “touching women” to be literal. But none of the other schools agree with that. It is talking about major ritual impurity, requiring ghusl (full bath), and it is intercourse which requires that.

Once again, it’s an opinion that I consider to be wrong, unjustified, contradicted by LOADS of evidence, not to mention unsensible, illogical, and extremely difficult to maintain.

My sheikh is asked questions by people sometimes about things like this, and he will try to give all the major opinions on the issue. Including the Shafi’i opinion. It’s amusing how he says, “It must be hard to be a Shafi’i,” after giving that opinion.

He was raised in a Shafi’i family by the way and then studied in the Hanafi madhhab, just fyi.

I could never be a Shafi’i. But I’ve noticed that the way that school works is to take the “safest” opinion. Which is often the strictest, and most difficult to maintain. Wallahu Alam.

All the same, it’s still a minority opinion.

The majority opinion is this:

1. intercourse makes one in a state of ritual impurity, simple touching does not (proof–the Prophet (s) would kiss his wife and then go pray, which means it did not break his wudhu)
2. intercourse is not permitted while a woman is menstruating but the husband may touch and be intimate with his wife in other ways (based on the hadith of Aisha)

 

[Sister_Amy]

My prayer for the OP:

May God guide you to His path, and make it easy for you to follow it.

 

[johnnydigit]

Or, I could forward you the E-Mails the Order I was considering joining send to prospective young men.

interesting you went this far. to me it’s like completing linear algebra, then deciding to question the validity of an imaginary number that we learn in pre-algebra.

it would make more sense to me if you were to question Jesus as the real Messiah, or the validity of the Church Fathers, but it seems like you didn’t even make it past the “algebra/geometry” phase.

granted i wouldn’t be the best at explaining why the Trinity is not a form of polytheism, but i know it is because i have not bothered to research it properly. everything i have ever questioned about the faith has been adequately answered ever since i came looking for Truth, and i know the answer that you can understand is out there somewhere.

it would take lifetimes to even scratch the surface of the deposit of faith, and it’s a given that you haven’t even nicked the surface yet. even Judaism has a formidable deposit of knowledge, so why you would go to Islam for truth is another mind bender…

 

[luvthelight]

I would recommend this site ewtn.com/faith/teachings/index.htm for help in a more complete understanding of actual Catholic teaching to help avoid any confusion
and especially this page ewtn.com/faith/teachings/rdmpa2.htm for the crucifixion
you mentioned reading some aquinas, I would recommend rereading this newadvent.org/summa/1040.htm and other parts on the trinity as he does help to explain many things

and if you are on a quest for truth, then be sure to fully investigate Catholicism and why the religion has grown so richly, for Catholic doctrine, straight from the mouths of orthodox theologians and writers, just browse around newadvent.org

Last thing, “you shall know them by their fruits”, learn more about the lives of Catholic saints, and not just cursory knowledge, think you know the life of one? investigate again and you are bound to come up with something new, their lives give rich witness to the truth found in Catholicism and there are thousands to choose from, just of those who are known

I admire your search, I know someone who did the same thing and found himself in Catholicism far more informed than anyone I have ever met, and he did the same with every major world religion

If you are true to your search for truth, search all religions, not just Islam

My last & final recommendation, do not try to limit God to your own understanding. It is such an easy mistake to make, in fact we all do. We do it when we complain about God not answering prayers, when we wonder why bad things happen, ect. Just because you do not understand a mystery (like the trinity) doesn’t mean it is not true. Muslims also realize that God is beyond all human comprehension, He created us, not the other way around. I heard once that the knowledge an ant has to our doings, is greater than the knowledge we have to Gods. If this is true, how can we POSSIBLY understand the nature of God much less say that the trinity cannot be true because it 'seems like a wordy way of defending an impossible doctrine. Instead investigate the core of the belief, try to really understand what the theologians are saying. But what is essential is belief in Christ if you are to remain a Christian so be sure to take the time to thoroughly investigate the belief in His divinity and Islam’s claims. Ask yourself difficult questions, why is it that Muhammad is not prophesized in the Bible, yet Christ was? How is it that the New Testament so completely compliments and fulfills the Old as cannot be done by human creation? If it was not really Christ who died, why did his followers, who spoke to him after the resurrection, allow themselves to be put to violent deaths for claiming he was? Why did the people who knew Christ best claim that he died, and it was nearly 700 years later that a man spread the belief he didn’t? There are more. Do not rush this search, your eternal life is at stake (no pressure though, jk ), but seriously, take your time. God does not want us the blindly follow doctrines, but to believe and love him out of free will

 

[swariffin]

Last thing, “you shall know them by their fruits”, learn more about the lives of Catholic saints, and not just cursory knowledge, think you know the life of one? investigate again and you are bound to come up with something new, their lives give rich witness to the truth found in Catholicism and there are thousands to choose from, just of those who are known

Yes indeed. If you also doubt the historical saints. Find your self the life of the modern Catholic saints, and how they have gone through all the process in their life. The modern saints who you could know yourself from general media. Beware, bad things might also be said against them. But, that is normal, correct? At least you can see yourself objectively.

 

[Glaucon]

My prayer for the OP:

May God guide you to His path, and make it easy for you to follow it.

You mean Islam, that is. I see what you’re doing there.

Oh, may I add a humble request to OP. Here’s a snippet of one of the sermons you’ll be listening to.

youtube.com/watch?v=iBNPStCb6Uo&feature=related

Allahu akbar, indeed.

This kind of preaching is quite commonplace, even in European and American mosques, by the way.

 

[inJESUS]

I think it’s pretty stupid. Personally. Bad of me to think of a scholarly opinion that way, but I do.

actually Sunni accuse Shia of immoraility and Shia accuse Sunni of immoral and stupid teachings yet both got things from Muhammad. Can you choose actually what is stpid and what is not? a salafi said you must not drive a car but must stay in your house and never mingle with men on the street…surely this is stupid. Ibn Taymiyya the sunni scholar said it is ok to have sex with a watemelon. Stupid right?Sunni Imam Abu Bakar al-Kashani (d. 587 H) records in his authority work ‘Badaye al-Sanae’ Volume 2 page 216:

“If he had sexual intercourse with an animal, that will not make his hajj void”

Paedophilia, Bestiality and necrophilia can be performed whilst one is Fasting

In Bada’i al-Fuwa’id of Ibn Qayyim, page 603:

"It was narrated by Ahmed that a man came to him that feared that he would ejaculate while he was fasting. Ahmed said: “What I see is that he can release semen without ruining the fast, he can masturbate using his hands or the hands of his wife, If he has an “Ammah” whether be it a girl or a little child, she can masturbate for him using her hands, and if she was a non-believer, he can sleep with her without releasing (his semen), if he released it in her, it becomes impermissible”.

Sex with animals, dead people and masturbation, does not invalidate one’s fast provided ejaculation does not occur"
Fatawa Qadhi Khan, Page 820

We read in Fathul Qadeer that if a man informs a woman that he is paying her for sex then he cannot be subject to any manner of Islamic penalty.
Dur al-Mukhtar, Volume 2, Page 474

“One day 'Ali attacked Amr ibn Aas, he threw a spear and Amr fell to the ground, Amr fell to the ground and he then exposed his buttocks. 'Ali then turned away his face [people said] this was Amr bin Aas. 'Ali replied he showed me his anus and this made me merciful to him. When Amr ibn Aas returned, Mu’awiya said 'You should praise Allah and your anus”.
Al Bidayah wa al Nihayah, Volume 7 page 293

Rasulallah (s) would give sex advice sessions to the Sahaba in the presence of Ayesha

Sahih Muslim Book Haid 003, Number 0685:

“'A’isha the wife of the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) reported. A person asked the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) about one who has sexual intercourse with his wife and parts away (without orgasm) whether bathing is obligatory for him. 'A’isha was sitting by him. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: I and she (the Mother of the Faithful) do it and then take a bath”.

not only this, but Aisha was reporting her sexual like with Muhammad’s companion Urwa when she told him they they used to take bath. She even made ghusl in front of men:

Ayesha performed Ghusl in front of men

We read in Sahih al Bukhari, Bab Ghusl Volume 1, Book 5, Number 251:

Narrated Abu Salama: 'Ayesha’s brother and I went to ‘A’isha and he asked her about the bath of the Prophet. She brought a pot containing about a Sa’ of water and took a bath and poured it over her head and at what time there was a screen between her and us.

Conclusion:
The list of such obscenities is quite long, and we have only narrated a small percentage. What more needs to be said about the immorality of Sunni Islam? Every manner of immorality is justified and accepted, and even attributed to the Holy Prophet (s).

yet Sunni accuse Shia of immoral hadith, immoral Mutaa marriage ecc ecc.

All these came from Muhammad and since he *must *be a role model, then sunni and shia start accusing each others of immoral teachings when in fact both parties took them from Muhammad.

More importantly, it wasn’t exactly relevant, and I’m not sure what you wanted to prove by bringing it up.

 

[Booklover]

You mean Islam, that is. I see what you’re doing there.

Oh, may I add a humble request to OP. Here’s a snippet of one of the sermons you’ll be listening to.

youtube.com/watch?v=iBNPStCb6Uo&feature=related

Allahu akbar, indeed.

This kind of preaching is quite commonplace, even in European and American mosques, by the way.

Wow! I know, and Muslims keep telling us that hatred is not preached at the mosques! Can’t you imagine Hitler making statements such as those? Yes, it’s happening here too. And there are plenty of Muslim enclaves right here in this country where no outsider is allowed. Sometimes the residents who live close by hear gunfire, but I suppose those peaceful Muslims are only playing tiddlywinks there. Scary, isn’t it?


This article compares not only Hitler with Muhammad, but Mein Kampf with the Quran.

Vickie

 

[Booklover]

actually Sunni accuse Shia of immoraility and Shia accuse Sunni of immoral and stupid teachings yet both got things from Muhammad. Can you choose actually what is stpid and what is not? a salafi said you must not drive a car but must stay in your house and never mingle with men on the street…surely this is stupid. Ibn Taymiyya the sunni scholar said it is ok to have sex with a watemelon. Stupid right?Sunni Imam Abu Bakar al-Kashani (d. 587 H) records in his authority work ‘Badaye al-Sanae’ Volume 2 page 216:

"If he had sexual intercourse with an animal, that will not make his hajj void

 

[R_not]

The originial post of not wanting to listen/read the Mr. Spencer filled crud tells me that you are not open to different opinions. Mr. Spencer has been nothing but a gentleman to muslims and their ‘religion’. He has asked for debates and the muslims he asks know that islam and the koran does not hold up to debate - and instead it usually just becomes a bashing from the muslims themselves.

Listen to some of them yourself:
youtube.com/results?search_query=spencer+islam&search_type=&aq=f

islam is not a religion that lends itself to debate, nor do its adherents especially prefer to debate because they are used to killing those who question it. The behavior of muslims in Europe, or the UN trying to silence anyone who questions it by calling those people names, like you do, such as islamophobes, etc.

phobe is an unnatural fear. Most islamophobes (that name you call so many) do not have a natural, or unnatural, fear of islam. They know islam and want to get the message out as to how disgusting it is. the facade that is put up by muslims practicing da’wa is one of peace and comfort. All one has to do is read the koran, hadiths and learn about mohammed - read about islam’s history both past and present and the slaughtering, torture, enslavement, rape of those slaves of which many are just children which still goes on to this day, and killing of so many peoples worldwide. And if one wants to convert after that - well, I don’t know then.

 

[Glaucon]

Wow! I know, and Muslims keep telling us that hatred is not preached at the mosques! Can’t you imagine Hitler making statements such as those? Yes, it’s happening here too. And there are plenty of Muslim enclaves right here in this country where no outsider is allowed. Sometimes the residents who live close by hear gunfire, but I suppose those peaceful Muslims are only playing tiddlywinks there. Scary, isn’t it?


This article compares not only Hitler with Muhammad, but Mein Kampf with the Quran.

Vickie

You simply can’t make stuff like that up.

Yeah… I’d like to see Sister Amy explain away that one (remember the hadith I quoted from that Muslim Students Association website?). It’s gonna be an uphill battle for her from this point on.

“Oh, THAAAT! He didn’t really mean what he said, when he said that! He was angry/actually meant that we should smother the Jews with divine love/ad nausam…”

Islam… The religion of peace. Man, I wish that were true.

If you’re interested though, I could share some insider docs regarding Islam. By Muslims, for Muslims.

 

[R_not]

One thing I have noticed about all the threads on some aspect of islam in this forum is that it usually becomes one of the truth vs a fairy tale of what islam is. And its adherents cannot tolerate (well, they obviously cannot tolerate anyone who questions islam - we see the behavior of muslims in muslim dominate, and even countries that have a growing muslim population and they start rioting, killing and having other crimes against non-muslims escalate - as is happening now in Denmark and to Danes in embassies in muslim countries) anyone who points out the truth.

so what happens? The discussion gets closed because of poor behavior.

This alone should answer a lot of the questions that keep popping up about islam and its adherents.

I have witnessed youtube videos being censored because muslims want the truth hidden. Fortunately they cannot censor them all and/or keep up with the number of videos that appear. They have successfully censored websites/businesses that sold books, such as ‘The Life and Religion of mohammed’ - which even there they are unable to get them all censored because I was able to finally find a copy. They bully book stores with intimidation and threats (of lawsuits) if certain books are carried - so we can usually only buy them on the internet now. And websites like jihadwatch and others are intimidated and bullied by muslims because they print the truth too.

In countries without the internet, or a way to disseminate information, muslims have won over by their usual ‘converting by the sword’ mentality. they have taken a new approach with us because of the internet and because this tactic - stealth, or political islam - has been working quite well too. We see it in Europe, and also a good example of how it took hold in Lebanon to show us how well it worked. With secularists and others who have fallen away from Christianity, being the biggest appeasers to help muslims gain a foothold. (a good book to read on Lebanon is ‘Because They Hate’. IT is a good story, but also a very good insight into what happened to the ‘Riviera of the Middle East’ and how it became a pig sty of muslim violence against its own population of Christians and also the Israelis.

 

[Booklover]

Excuse my language, however you’re a real Jackass.

Perhapse you find my responses simple minded or elementary, that is your right, however you have not ONE SHRED of evidence to say I am lying, in fact I have provide a plethora of evidence to prove I was raised Catholic and was once QUOTE devout.

I have provided the name of my Baptismal Priest, the name of my former Youth Minister, the name of a Monastery I helped run a program on St. Gemma at, and my Confirmation name.

At St. Paul of the Cross Monastery if take the elevator/stairs to the 1st floor you will see, on the platform which the stair continue up along a door with a small metal stop, that leads to the courtyard. Once you step through that door you will be in the Monastery courtyard. You will se a statue of Jesus, Paul the Cross, and a few smaller statues, there is a stations of the cross, and on the far right side a large crucifix. When you cross the Courtyard and enter the monks quarters(also accessible from the second floor library), you can continue down the hallway until you see a long, narrow flight of stairs with a locked gait at the bottom. If the Monks let you in you can continue to a table in the middle of the room containing Vatican authentications of the relics and tombs, continue forwards and you will see the wall in which past Priests are buried in, one of the tombs contains the remains of a Bishop was imprisoned in China for a number of years, continue around the room a bit further and you will see the Vestments of (I believe) Czar Nicholas II’s Chaplin refit to the Roman Rite, continue a bit further and you will find some remains of the cross, a Clapper(a devise, my Priest informed me, that was used to wake novices in the old days).

Now my good sir, why don’t you tell me just how many rabid Muslim apologists the Passionists allow in their crypt to lecture to LifeTeen kids on the subject of St Gemma?

catholic-church.org/stpaulsmonastery/

there is a link to the monastery websight, PLEASE call, ask for father Patrick(I believe he’s still there) or any of the several Passionists and ask them if my story checks out. Please don’t during the afternoon, they have AA counciling at either the Monastery kitchen, or the “blue room”, a large circular blue room with seats, in which is a staircase leading to the library, on the back left shelf you will find some nice philosophy texts.

I am DONE with this, as I have said before you are WELCOME to use my facebook to contact my former Youth Minister. Or, I could forward you the E-Mails the Order I was considering joining send to prospective young men.

I was a Sacristan, went to weekly confession, and prayed the rosary constantly in imitation of St Pio.

You have NO RIGHT to judge the state of my soul you hypocrite.

fantastic, now tell me what I’ll get for my Birthday.

I thought I wasn’t ever a Catholic, or never a “real” Catholic?

Of course, if such delf assured, pretentious, arrogance is the mark of a “real” Catholic like yourself I suppose I misjudged my entire religion and should not hold it in fond regard but only contempt, as apparently it’s “true” members are not pious Monks in the Bronks(Whom I have ALSO had the PLEASURE of meeting) or humble nuns, of simply Pious Laymen, like Pope John Paul II’s father, but individuals such as yourself.

Now, I am fantastically willing to listen to critiques of my views of Christianity, but I am sick of this. Either call my bluff, which I doubt as that would take a smidgen of personal fortitude to remove onself from the comforts of anonymous character assassination, or drop it.

Now, I will finish any last replies necessary, then I’ll be gone for while(at least) for all the nice people, thank you, I will continue reading and searching before doing anything drastic.

bye

Your attacks on Catsand Dogs is pretty disgusting!

Yet in post #59, you stated this:

“Like I said, I am no Theologian. I have a minimal knowledge of Catholicism, I would admit that.”

So you claim all the credentials above and still know nothing about your faith??? So which is it??

Vickie

 

[R_not]

You simply can’t make stuff like that up.

Yeah… I’d like to see Sister Amy explain away that one (remember the hadith I quoted from that Muslim Students Association website?). It’s gonna be an uphill battle for her from this point on.

“Oh, THAAAT! He didn’t really mean what he said, when he said that! He was angry/actually meant that we should smother the Jews with divine love/ad nausam…”

Islam… The religion of peace. Man, I wish that were true.

If you’re interested though, I could share some insider docs regarding Islam. By Muslims, for Muslims.

(by the way - I am on Israel’s side!)

There is a good book that shows Nazism, Communism and islam as similar - fascisms. It is called, ‘Paganism and Fascism’.

The important thing that we should never forget is the base teachings of mohammed and Jesus Christ. It is like night and day (gee, islam has the symbols of the night - a crescent moon and star - hhhmmm, go figure!)!

 

[Glaucon]

One thing I have noticed about all the threads on some aspect of islam in this forum is that it usually becomes one of the truth vs a fairy tale of what islam is. And its adherents cannot tolerate (well, they obviously cannot tolerate anyone who questions islam - we see the behavior of muslims in muslim dominate, and even countries that have a growing muslim population and they start rioting, killing and having other crimes against non-muslims escalate - as is happening now in Denmark and to Danes in embassies in muslim countries) anyone who points out the truth.

so what happens? The discussion gets closed because of poor behavior.

This alone should answer a lot of the questions that keep popping up about islam and its adherents.

I have witnessed youtube videos being censored because muslims want the truth hidden. Fortunately they cannot censor them all and/or keep up with the number of videos that appear. They have successfully censored websites/businesses that sold books, such as ‘The Life and Religion of mohammed’ - which even there they are unable to get them all censored because I was able to finally find a copy. They bully book stores with intimidation and threats (of lawsuits) if certain books are carried - so we can usually only buy them on the internet now. And websites like jihadwatch and others are intimidated and bullied by muslims because they print the truth too.

In countries without the internet, or a way to disseminate information, muslims have won over by their usual ‘converting by the sword’ mentality. they have taken a new approach with us because of the internet and because this tactic - stealth, or political islam - has been working quite well too. We see it in Europe, and also a good example of how it took hold in Lebanon to show us how well it worked. With secularists and others who have fallen away from Christianity, being the biggest appeasers to help muslims gain a foothold. (a good book to read on Lebanon is ‘Because They Hate’. IT is a good story, but also a very good insight into what happened to the ‘Riviera of the Middle East’ and how it became a pig sty of muslim violence against its own population of Christians and also the Israelis.

Poor behavior? Pardon me, I admit that some of us were forthright in what we had to say, but we did manage to keep our cool… Which you must admit is no small task.

Regarding what you just said about the Internet? Right on. As a matter of fact, I’m willing to wager that the Internet shall play no small role in the weakening, if not the utter demise, of Islam/Islamism/jihadism (I personally find these terms interchangeable).

Oh, and by the way, OP’s been rather dismissive of Robert Spencer. But I suppose it won’t hurt to pay his website a little visit. If what he was saying wasn’t at all true, then why should jihadists get so worked up over him?

It’s good to see fellow Catholics stand up for our Jewish brethren in Israel.

 

[Booklover]

(by the way - I am on Israel’s side!)

There is a good book that shows Nazism, Communism and islam as similar - fascisms. It is called, ‘Paganism and Fascism’.

The important thing that we should never forget is the base teachings of mohammed and Jesus Christ. It is like night and day (gee, islam has the symbols of the night - a crescent moon and star - hhhmmm, go figure!)!

So am I!

Vickie