Why I am Drifting from Catholicism to Islam

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The Qur’an, Sura 5:51:
O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.
Except for that “a people unjust” part, the Profit Mo (phat) amazingly nailed that one.

So, Sister Amy, won’t you count even at least some of us as friends?

I’m for Israel 100%… Got a problem with that?
 
Poor behavior? Pardon me, I admit that some of us were forthright in what we had to say, but we did manage to keep our cool… Which you must admit is no small task.

Regarding what you just said about the Internet? Right on. As a matter of fact, I’m willing to wager that the Internet shall play no small role in the weakening, if not the utter demise, of Islam/Islamism/jihadism (I personally find these terms interchangeable).

Oh, and by the way, OP’s been rather dismissive of Robert Spencer. But I suppose it won’t hurt to pay his website a little visit. If what he was saying wasn’t at all true, then why should jihadists get so worked up over him?

It’s good to see fellow Catholics stand up for our Jewish brethren in Israel.
By the way, in these two videos , the name given to it at www.thereligionofpeace.com
another sharp contrast between Israelis and Palestinians bubbles to the surface. It just goes to show how the two groups treat dumb animals.

Vickie
 
Poor behavior? Pardon me, I admit that some of us were forthright in what we had to say, but we did manage to keep our cool… Which you must admit is no small task.

Regarding what you just said about the Internet? Right on. As a matter of fact, I’m willing to wager that the Internet shall play no small role in the weakening, if not the utter demise, of Islam/Islamism/jihadism (I personally find these terms interchangeable).

Oh, and by the way, OP’s been rather dismissive of Robert Spencer. But I suppose it won’t hurt to pay his website a little visit. If what he was saying wasn’t at all true, then why should jihadists get so worked up over him?

It’s good to see fellow Catholics stand up for our Jewish brethren in Israel.
The way I see this - and I am on many a blog website - when a muslim(s) doesn’t like someone and is says especially nasty things then I am on the right track. They are unable to tolerate anyone who speaks against islam or their prophet. Mr. Spencer is one of my heros - he is threatened all the time by muslims and has to live in hiding. Just as so many others have to do and/or get 24 hour guards when speaking up about islam.

I get my worldwide news from his site, and others. I get a monthly newsletter from Shoresh and also look at their website for Israeli news. It is disheartening to know that barely a peep out of the chaos and death that muslims bring to them daily and if they strike back - EVERYONE knows about it because the muslims do not believe that anyone should strike back at them no matter what they do to others. And they will use the women and children they hide behind as propaganda if they get killed. It is shameful.

In fact, it was an Israeli/American gal who got me started in all my readings (the koran/hadiths, and well over 50 books on the subject). I was having lunch with her and she told me of her son in Israel and I asked her ‘Why do they hate us?’. This was after 9/11 and it just bothered me to no end why they couldn’t make a peace treaty, or why they would attack us time and again. She got me stared with this book, ‘From Time Immemorial’.
NOT an easy book to read!

I was hooked - I had to know more - and the obsessive compulsive side of me wouldn’t let me go - and now I know why they hate us. They are told to hate us. The teachings of the koran and hadiths are the problem, along with the base teachings not elevating the mind and soul to reach beyond the base animal instincts - of sex, stealing, lying, torturing and killing. Look at what their heaven is - a paradise that the male gets his ‘jollies’ taken care of by 72 women slaves. Oh, I am sure they won’t call them slaves - but what else would a free person call a woman condemned to be a perpetual virgin pleasing a male for eternity?!

It is all in the koran and hadiths.
 
inJESUS, you got me again!😛

I neglected to mention the Shafi’i opinion about touching women because I think it’s pretty stupid. Personally. Bad of me to think of a scholarly opinion that way, but I do. More importantly, it wasn’t exactly relevant, and I’m not sure what you wanted to prove by bringing it up.
Maybe that so-called scholarly opinion is stupid in the first place! Have you thought of that?

Vickie
 
The way I see this - and I am on many a blog website - when a muslim(s) doesn’t like someone and is says especially nasty things then I am on the right track. They are unable to tolerate anyone who speaks against islam or their prophet. Mr. Spencer is one of my heros - he is threatened all the time by muslims and has to live in hiding. Just as so many others have to do and/or get 24 hour guards when speaking up about islam.

I get my worldwide news from his site, and others. I get a monthly newsletter from Shoresh and also look at their website for Israeli news. It is disheartening to know that barely a peep out of the chaos and death that muslims bring to them daily and if they strike back - EVERYONE knows about it because the muslims do not believe that anyone should strike back at them no matter what they do to others. And they will use the women and children they hide behind as propaganda if they get killed. It is shameful.

In fact, it was an Israeli/American gal who got me started in all my readings (the koran/hadiths, and well over 50 books on the subject). I was having lunch with her and she told me of her son in Israel and I asked her ‘Why do they hate us?’. This was after 9/11 and it just bothered me to no end why they couldn’t make a peace treaty, or why they would attack us time and again. She got me stared with this book, ‘From Time Immemorial’.
NOT an easy book to read!

I was hooked - I had to know more - and the obsessive compulsive side of me wouldn’t let me go - and now I know why they hate us. They are told to hate us. The teachings of the koran and hadiths are the problem, along with the base teachings not elevating the mind and soul to reach beyond the base animal instincts - of sex, stealing, lying, torturing and killing. Look at what their heaven is - a paradise that the male gets his ‘jollies’ taken care of by 72 women slaves. Oh, I am sure they won’t call them slaves - but what else would a free person call a woman condemned to be a perpetual virgin pleasing a male for eternity?!

It is all in the koran and hadiths.
Not to mention the traditional Islamic commentaries on the Qur’an. Check out the tafsirs (commentaries), especially the Tafsir Ibn Kathir, Tafsir al-Jalalayn, and Sayyid Qutb’s modern commentaries. They’re all available online, for free. On websites by Muslims, for Muslims (and, unintentionally, infidels like ourselves… I wonder if this is a case of the enemy shooting themselves in the foot).

Another text worth reading regarding the Profit himself would be the Sirat Rasul Allah. If you seach long and hard enough for it, you can find it. (I forgot where exactly, though.)

Take that, CAIR.

P.S. Wasn’t it the Muslim philosopher Averroes who said something to the effect of “if conflict between faith and logic is inevitable, then logic must prevail”?
 
Try coming to Christ through faith in Him. He is the only true God with whom we have to do business with. John 1:1-4 shows the diety of Christ. In John 10:27-34 Jesus claims to be God and the Jews knew what He meant that is why tried to kill Him. In Islam god is not a personal god but a god of wrath. No one knows for sure if they have done enough to go to heaven to be with god. In Christianity God has become man and dwelt among us, John 1:14. He died on the Cross to pay our sin penalty for us. All who by faith alone in Christ can be saved from their sins and justified before God. John 3:16; Romans 5:1. This sound a whole lot better than Islam. Works are need for salvation in Christianity. They are in Islam. If works were need for salvation we would never be able to do enough to merit God justifying us. That is why God tells us that we are justified by faith in Christ Romans 5:1. God saves us and keeps us saved. Our part is to acept what God has done for us in faith Read Eph 2:1-10 to see the whole plan of salvation laid our for us.
 
What about Mr. Spencer’s associate, Hugh Fitzgerald? He’s a confirmed atheist, I’ll give you that, but he’s a capable expert on Islam as well. I love his cleverly-written essays too. May God bless his soul.

(Note the absence of a Catholic “fatwa” on Mr. Fitzgerald’s atheist neck.)
 
What about Mr. Spencer’s associate, Hugh Fitzgerald? He’s a confirmed atheist, I’ll give you that, but he’s a capable expert on Islam as well. I love his cleverly-written essays too. May God bless his soul.

(Note the absence of a Catholic “fatwa” on Mr. Fitzgerald’s atheist neck.)
Not only does Hugh have some good articles - and some are in the archives - there is another guy that has some good articles on islam and that is Mr. Fjordman. He has a good series of articles on islam and scientific advancement (or the lack thereof) that I loved.

They are quite lengthly, but I printed them out and read them on Bart:
Fjordman: islam, the Greeks and the Scientific Revolution, Part 1
jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/018190.php
Part2
jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/018278.php
Part3
jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/018368.php
 
Not only does Hugh have some good articles - and some are in the archives - there is another guy that has some good articles on islam and that is Mr. Fjordman. He has a good series of articles on islam and scientific advancement (or the lack thereof) that I loved.

They are quite lengthly, but I printed them out and read them on Bart:
Fjordman: islam, the Greeks and the Scientific Revolution, Part 1
jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/018190.php
Part2
jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/018278.php
Part3
jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/018368.php
Don’t forget Gates of Vienna, a blog run by Baron Bodissey and Dymphna, both of whom I strongly suspect are Catholics, too.
 
Paedophilia, Bestiality and necrophilia can be performed whilst one is Fasting


Conclusion:
The list of such obscenities is quite long, and we have only narrated a small percentage. What more needs to be said about the immorality of Sunni Islam? Every manner of immorality is justified and accepted, and even attributed to the Holy Prophet (s).
what in the world? there must be a rebuttal for this. with such a strong following, there must be. i’m thinking something like how the Old Testament says “an eye for an eye” but of course we don’t follow that…
 
what in the world? there must be a rebuttal for this.

what i quoted are Sunni stuff . Shia accuse Sunni of immoral teachings and hadith, and the Sunni accuse Shia of immoral teachings and hadith. Both can refute each others but both are as old as Muhammad so where did they both get their teachings from? Muhammad and his ahlul-beit (Shia) or his companions and wives (sunni) …and how will one be sure of anything if the authentic traditions of both are under questions and often contradictory? the Quran claims Muhammad is the best role model yet Shia and Sunni traditions show a totally different picture and whenever one hadith of Shia shows something deemed immoral by Sunnis, they reject it as invention, and vice versa. The examples of immorality are countless on both sides and things for outsiders are clear.
 
what i quoted are Sunni stuff . Shia accuse Sunni of immoral teachings and hadith, and the Sunni accuse Shia of immoral teachings and hadith. Both can refute each others but both are as old as Muhammad so where did they both get their teachings from? Muhammad and his ahlul-beit (Shia) or his companions and wives (sunni) …and how will one be sure of anything if the authentic traditions of both are under questions and often contradictory? the Quran claims Muhammad is the best role model yet Shia and Sunni traditions show a totally different picture and whenever one hadith of Shia shows something deemed immoral by Sunnis, they reject it as invention, and vice versa. The examples of immorality are countless on both sides and things for outsiders are clear.
 
interesting you went this far. to me it’s like completing linear algebra, then deciding to question the validity of an imaginary number that we learn in pre-algebra.

it would make more sense to me if you were to question Jesus as the real Messiah, or the validity of the Church Fathers, but it seems like you didn’t even make it past the “algebra/geometry” phase.

granted i wouldn’t be the best at explaining why the Trinity is not a form of polytheism, but i know it is because i have not bothered to research it properly. everything i have ever questioned about the faith has been adequately answered ever since i came looking for Truth, and i know the answer that you can understand is out there somewhere.

it would take lifetimes to even scratch the surface of the deposit of faith, and it’s a given that you haven’t even nicked the surface yet. even Judaism has a formidable deposit of knowledge, so why you would go to Islam for truth is another mind bender…
I would liken it more to Frege. Although Calculus and analysis were developed, Set theory and transfinite numbers were on the march, and non-Euclydian geometry was beginning to be seen as more than “Mathematical Fictions” he still felt it necessary to write a book about the foundations of arithmetic and establish an effective means for verifying proofs.

I am absolutely not comparing my questions, either in scope or intellectual depth to Frege, that is simply the best empirical refutation I can think of. I have always thought the credence the Church paid to Church Fathers made a great deal of sense, while the protestant Sola Scripture seemed a bit odd.

I’ve studied quite a few issues in the Church, from it’s rejection of Fideism, a heft blow to the Kierkegaardian in my during my Junior days, per Vatican I, to Joseph Ratzinger’s criticism of Jacques Monod’s “Chance and Necessity”.

While I hold great esteem for many Christian intellectuals, abstract postulations must occasionally be suspended to examine mundane foundational issues.

As you referenced mathematics I would cite Bertrand Russell’s observation that often the most “simply” notions in mathematics cause the greatest existential angst in mathematicians in the foundational base of their subject.

I think a fundamental question, one that greatly contributes to my difficulties reguarding Christianity is this one.

Can anyone truly say that a first century Aramaic speaking Rabbi advocated the complex metaphysical doctrine found in current Christendom?

Even in mainstream Christian Cannon Christ’s allusions to his divinity are vague at best, as are allusions to the Trinity. Jesus was quite specific in his criticisms of the Jewish religious establishment at the time, yet he decided to drop only timid hints regarding the doctrines which compose the very core of Christianity?

seems suspect.
 
I would liken it more to Frege. Although Calculus and analysis were developed, Set theory and transfinite numbers were on the march, and non-Euclydian geometry was beginning to be seen as more than “Mathematical Fictions” he still felt it necessary to write a book about the foundations of arithmetic and establish an effective means for verifying proofs.

I am absolutely not comparing my questions, either in scope or intellectual depth to Frege, that is simply the best empirical refutation I can think of. I have always thought the credence the Church paid to Church Fathers made a great deal of sense, while the protestant Sola Scripture seemed a bit odd.

I’ve studied quite a few issues in the Church, from it’s rejection of Fideism, a heft blow to the Kierkegaardian in my during my Junior days, per Vatican I, to Joseph Ratzinger’s criticism of Jacques Monod’s “Chance and Necessity”.

While I hold great esteem for many Christian intellectuals, abstract postulations must occasionally be suspended to examine mundane foundational issues.

As you referenced mathematics I would cite Bertrand Russell’s observation that often the most “simply” notions in mathematics cause the greatest existential angst in mathematicians in the foundational base of their subject.

I think a fundamental question, one that greatly contributes to my difficulties reguarding Christianity is this one.

Can anyone truly say that a first century Aramaic speaking Rabbi advocated the complex metaphysical doctrine found in current Christendom?

Even in mainstream Christian Cannon Christ’s allusions to his divinity are vague at best, as are allusions to the Trinity. Jesus was quite specific in his criticisms of the Jewish religious establishment at the time, yet he decided to drop only timid hints regarding the doctrines which compose the very core of Christianity?

seems suspect.
TL;DR.

Now, this here troll’s tryin’ to outshine thuh silver by bringin’ up all these big concepts ‘n names. Gee whiz, mister, if Christianity simply gives you a bad case of neuron-fry, why not just keep it ta yerself and get it on with? The ruhlijinn of piece, ah mean? Jus’ take care not ta get yerself REALLY hurt now (wink, wink)… Now that’d be a durned shame, indeed.

At least we won’t stone ya for defectin’, know what ahm sayin’?

Rather confusin’, the things ya keep bringin’ up, but perhaps the source of confusion here’s you, Confucius.
 
wht, why not start a thread in apologetics about Trinity and Jesus’ divinity? you will get much more responses since people often dismiss too long threads and we will discuss the OT and NT about the Father, Wisdom/Logos and Spirit.
 
Well, it sounds as though you’ve already made up your mind, OP. So why bother opening up this can of worms in the first place? Sounds awfully a lot like trolling to me. Or maybe you’re doing this out of a smug sense of superiority over us “hypocrites” you get whenever you think of converting?

So if you’ve made up your mind, then go. Do it. Enough with the bickering already.

Otherwise, stay.
I don’t feel any superiority, I clearly haven’t made up my mind, hence this post, hence the OP, hence the numerous times I have said I have not made up my mind, including the post you quoted from.

I don’t think I have been bickering, aside from reporting R_Not’s atrocious post about a week back and my constant refutations of individuals claiming I am lying about my past I feel I’ve been fairly amicable.
 
wht, why not start a thread in apologetics about Trinity and Jesus’ divinity? you will get much more responses since people often dismiss too long threads and we will discuss the OT and NT about the Father, Wisdom/Logos and Spirit.
Would he be convinced, if he refuses to keep his mind even just a bit open to what we have to tell him? I think this guy’s one of those who like to hear themselves talk.
 
TL;DR.

Now, this here troll’s tryin’ to outshine thuh silver by bringin’ up all these big concepts ‘n names. Gee whiz, mister, if Christianity simply gives you a bad case of neuron-fry, why not just keep it ta yerself and get it on with? The ruhlijinn of piece, ah mean? Jus’ take care not ta get yerself REALLY hurt now (wink, wink)… Now that’d be a durned shame, indeed.

At least we won’t stone ya for defectin’, know what ahm sayin’?

Rather confusin’, the things ya keep bringin’ up, but perhaps the source of confusion here’s you, Confucius.
That’s cute. Being in South Carolina I know Softeners never get tired the jokes constantly conflating a Southern accent with ignorance, stupidity, and anti-intellectualism.
 
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