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inJESUS
Guest
if the author of the Quran haven’t mentioned the name of Jesus, one might have the impression that Jesus, His mission and Covenant never existed in the authors’ mind.
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whatevergirl
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Muhammed taught that Jesus was a prophet, but not the final one, like he wanted his followers to believe. Jesus was just ‘one’ of others who came as a messenger of God. But, Islam does not teach that Jesus’ covenant was about salvation, or death and resurrection. Or that he was expiated for sin. They merely believe that He was a prophet, a great one, but still–just another prophet, before Muhammed.
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whatevergirl
Guest
I meant to add that I agree with you, here. lol
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inJESUS
Guest
to add to your point with which i agree as well, seems that the title Messiah and prophet are the same in Islam…that is, Jesus being a mere prophet yet THE Messiah does not ring correct to my ears…in Islam, He is the Messiah because He is annointed…in other words, Islam explains the word instead of explaining the covenant and since being annointed is not exclusive to Jesus yet Jesus is said to be THE Messiah.
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whatevergirl
Guest
Hello again–I’m not a fan of wikpedia, but this summation is pretty good…it’s very confusing to someone who doesn’t know much about Islam. Almost…almost looks like Islam and Christianty aren’t that far apart.
(Please note to everyone reading, that hadiths are additional writings of Muhammed)***Islamic view
Main articles: Islamic view of Jesus, Mahdi, and Muhammad al-Mahdi
The Quran states that Jesus is the Messiah,[Qur’an 3:45] and Muslims believe that Jesus is alive in Heaven and will return to Earth to defeat the Antichrist.
A hadith in Abu Dawud (Sunnan Abu Dawud 37:4310) says:
“Narrated Abu Hurayrah: The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: There is no prophet between me and him, that is, Jesus (peace be upon him). He will descend (to the earth). When you see him, recognise him: a man of medium height, reddish hair, wearing two light yellow garments, looking as if drops were falling down from his head though it will not be wet. He will fight for the cause of Islam. He will break the cross, kill swine, and abolish jizyah. God will perish all religions except Islam. He will destroy the Antichrist and will live on the earth for forty years and then he will die. The Muslims will pray behind him.”
Muslims believe that al-Mahdi will arrive first, and after him, Jesus. Jesus will proclaim that the true leader is al-Mahdi. A war, literally Jihad (Jihade Asghar) will be fought - the Dajjal (evil) against al-Mahdi and Jesus (good). This war will mark the approach of the coming of the Last Day. After Jesus slays al-Masīh al-Dajjāl (literally “the Deceiving Messiah,” loosely the Antichrist; often referred to simply as “Dajjāl”) at the Gate of Lud, Muslims believe he will marry, die, and be buried in the Masjid al Nabawi. During his life, he will have revealed that Islam is the last word of God.
A hadith in Sahih Bukhari (4:55:658) says:
“How will you be when the son of Mary descends amongst you and your Imam is from amongst you.”
A very few scholars outside of Orthodox Islam reject all the quotes attributed to Muhammad (Hadith) that mention the second return of Jesus, the Dajjal and Imam Mahdi, believing that they have no Qur’anic basis. These scholars believe that the verb mutawwafika in verse [Qur’an 3:55] implies that God caused the bodily death of Jesus, thus (3:55) should read as “O Jesus, I terminate your life, raise you to Me.” Others disagree with the implication of termination of Jesus’ life (for example Yusuf Ali’s translation reads: “O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself”). Verses [Qur’an 4:157] imply that Jesus was not killed physically but it appeared as such in some other sense; Verse [Qur’an 19:33] implies that Jesus will die someday. The vast majority of Muslims, and the unified opinion of Orthodox Islam since Islam’s coming, maintain that the bodily death of Jesus will happen after his second coming.
Many classical commentators such as Ibn Kathir, At-Tabari, al-Qurtubi, Suyuti, al-Undlusi (Bahr al-Muhit), Abu al-Fadl al-Alusi (Ruh al-Maani) and many others clearly mention that verse [Qur’an 43:61] of the Qur’an refers to the descent of Jesus before the Day of Resurrection, indicating that Jesus would be the Sign that the Hour is close.***
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morning_star777
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if any ppl want to leave the kingdom of god then let them do that.i am gratefull to my lord jesus that he showed me the true way of salvation.the only true way,JESUS CHRIST.and at 1st i also couldn’t guess correctly that what is holy trinity.but later here my friends made it clear to me.so i think that the trinity(holy) is a very clear concept.&if mr.wth will read the correct history then he will guess that islam spreaded with violence.
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Malgosia
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No, regretably my husband does not like to read in general (why read when you can watch TV), and anything that may prove him wrong will never be something he would want to reach for.
So far, I have managed to sow doubt in his mind, and that’s a start. He knows how much I know, therefore he tries to avoid conversations on Islam.
I call him “my project”
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inJESUS
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Whatevergirl, thank you for your quote…i know them all 
my point was not about whether Jesus is the Messiah and will return or not, but about the silence of the title Messiah in Quran…the book says …and his name is the Messiah Jesus…
Messiah is no name…i don’t know how this is interpreted, but there is no explanation as to the Messianic Covenant or why is Jesus THE Messiah or what THE Messiah will do ecc…that’s why i said, the author uses the word The Messiah, but does not explain what that means or what His Covenant is, or that His Covenant is eternal as per the OT and NT…
my point was not about whether Jesus is the Messiah and will return or not, but about the silence of the title Messiah in Quran…the book says …and his name is the Messiah Jesus…Messiah is no name…i don’t know how this is interpreted, but there is no explanation as to the Messianic Covenant or why is Jesus THE Messiah or what THE Messiah will do ecc…that’s why i said, the author uses the word The Messiah, but does not explain what that means or what His Covenant is, or that His Covenant is eternal as per the OT and NT…
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Sublime_Prince
Guest
Well I knew several muslims I really admired growing up. I admired how much more true to their faith they seemed then most my christian friends I knew. They never swore, always treated me favorably, and just seemed to be deeply religous.
My girlfriends ex-husband use to be Islam so I have learned some things. One thing I mistaked was the idea of holy war and that was so wrong. I thought God never directed people in Bible to go and kill non-believers, but I was wrong. My girlfriend having studied the bible for over 20 years showed me many instances in the Old Testament where God did just that. He directed the Isrealites to kill the unbelievers. the idolers, worshipers of false idols, paganists. when Isreal worshipped idols and fell into paganistic practices he had other nations whipe them out for their sins.
The pope led the crusades to bring justice to the unbelievers.
These are elements that are missing in modern christianity and pastors avoid to fill their churhces. So as a result people have a miscontrude concept that christianity is a feel good religon, where anyone can be a great chrisitan and is pardoned for their sins. Many christians live their lives without any fear of consequences for their actions.
My girlfriends ex-husband use to be Islam so I have learned some things. One thing I mistaked was the idea of holy war and that was so wrong. I thought God never directed people in Bible to go and kill non-believers, but I was wrong. My girlfriend having studied the bible for over 20 years showed me many instances in the Old Testament where God did just that. He directed the Isrealites to kill the unbelievers. the idolers, worshipers of false idols, paganists. when Isreal worshipped idols and fell into paganistic practices he had other nations whipe them out for their sins.
The pope led the crusades to bring justice to the unbelievers.
These are elements that are missing in modern christianity and pastors avoid to fill their churhces. So as a result people have a miscontrude concept that christianity is a feel good religon, where anyone can be a great chrisitan and is pardoned for their sins. Many christians live their lives without any fear of consequences for their actions.
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whatevergirl
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Actually, ‘messiah’ means ‘annointed one’ as you and I know, and thus…Muhammed teaches his followers to have great respect for Jesus, because He was “a” chosen one. Not THEE chosen One. See, that’s the rub. We believe Jesus to be Thee Chosen One selected by God, to redeem us. But, Muhammed teaches, that He was chosen, but simply to reveal a piece of God’s message. Muhammed literally taught that he was the person chosen by God to give the ‘rest of the story,’ and is the 'final prophet.Whatevergirl, thank you for your quote…i know them all
Messiah is no name…i don’t know how this is interpreted, but there is no explanation as to the Messianic Covenant or why is Jesus THE Messiah or what THE Messiah will do ecc…that’s why i said, the author uses the word The Messiah, but does not explain what that means or what His Covenant is, or that His Covenant is eternal as per the OT and NT…
I didn’t mean to state the obvious. I thought the quote would help others though, too.
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Eden
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Just make sure that you are interested in authentic Islam, not the censored, “clean” version presented to us in the West to make it palatable. I assume you are not fluent in Arabic, which is a great weakness in Westerners that allows Muslims to prey on you and lead you astray.
Please investigate more about Islam from ex-Muslims before making a huge mistake by leaving the Church founded by Christ:
youtube.com/investigateislam
youtube.com/ahmadsquran3
Please investigate more about Islam from ex-Muslims before making a huge mistake by leaving the Church founded by Christ:
youtube.com/investigateislam
youtube.com/ahmadsquran3
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abucs
Guest
There seems to be a couple of old posters here with new names.
Better luck this time guys ?
Better luck this time guys ?
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Verisimilitude
Guest
I think that only reflects the image in which we all share with our Creator. It is our natural state to be harmonious. Atheists can be moral and selfless in the context of daily life without being religious. The bolded portion above makes me wonder what do you mean by that… ?
A few points to consider when comparing the OT to the Quran:
1.) The reason God did things in the OT are to be understood in the knowledge of the NT. Why do you think He made the Jews a Chosen People? Why and how did He seperate them as a people from other people and cultures? If you don’t know, please learn.
2.) Mohamed can be dismissed as a false prophet among other things and is not to be trusted. The Quran is factually wrong where it disagrees (which is mostly) with both OT and NT, and despite it’s claims of a new and improved God 3.0 revelation to mankind it is somthing else.
There is no holy war instigated by the Church. Try and put things in perspective of what led to that series of wars that ended centuries ago.
Doesn’t public education teach history anymore? When was the last time you read them? The Catholic Church is pretty particular in who She calls a great Christian. See list of Saints.
Many Muslims live with abject fear of the god of the Quran if they do not act in his Cause because their actions are weighed against what the Quran refers to as ‘allah’s Cause’ or the 'Cause of allah".
Between the messege of what Jesus brought and that which Mohamed brought, which do you think reflects the Will of God in a timeless way? Meaning: is there anything in the Gospels that would not apply today like shaking the dust from ones shoes and moving on if they did not accept the Good News? Anything in the Quran? Like ‘slay them where you find them’. them=non-Muslim.
Are each still relevant today?
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Eden
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Did you know that Muslim men may marry Christian women, but Muslim women may not marry Christian men? Why is that? Hmm…
That’s the most bizarre justification for the murder of Europeans and Americans in the name of the Islamic allah I have ever seen from a “Protestant”.
The Crusades were defensive. Christian pilgrims on their journeys to Jerusalem were being attacked by “peaceful” Muslims, for instance.
That is true of Protestantism, not of Catholicism.
Again, you seem to be very familiar with Protestantism, but not Catholicism, unfortunately.
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Alethiaphile
Guest
If I may make a bold, and, I’m sure, somewhat unwelcome to many here, suggestion, I think a lot of your problems with the Trinity, the Atonement, etc. are due to only being exposed to them in their western and scholastic form. I would strongly suggest, if you haven’t already, reading some Eastern Christian theology. I would suggest Zizioulas’ Being as Communion and Lossky’s Mystical Theology of the Eastern Church. The Trinity isn’t some clever word game to justify polytheism; it is at the root of reality itself. The Atonement wasn’t a matter of God punishing His Son instead of us, it was Christ restoring by His obedience, out of love, what we had lost in the Fall, and bringing to us the very life of the Trinity. Joe
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wth1257
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From Wikipedia
Controversy
In addition to his alleged qualifications from Al Azhar University (his background has never been independently verified), Gabriel claims a doctorate in Christian education and a master’s in world religion from Florida Christian University in Orlando, which is unaccredited. He describes himself as founder and president of Hope for the Nations, a “missions organization dedicated to bringing the Good News to the entire world, including Muslims and Jews”.[10] Gabriel prays “for the entire world, including Muslims and Jews, to come to the knowledge of Jesus Christ”[11]
Gabriel’s website, www.markagabriel.org, was run by Bradlee Sargent, an American-born computer programmer who “saw the importance of evangelizing Muslims in 1983, when he lived in Saudi Arabia.”[12] Sargent is a member of the Arabic Evangelical Church,[13] organized by Syrian-born Christian Peter Shadid,[14] which aims to guide the Muslims of Central Florida “away from the Islamic teachings of Mohammed and toward Christianity”. Gabriel is listed as the owner of the new website established on 24 July, 2006.[15]
The books published by Gabriel are promoted by Stephen Strang’s Strang Communications. Strang believes that “Y’eshua is getting us ready for his return. And I believe that Y’eshua is getting us ready, all of us, the Gentile church included, for the great influx of believers. Of Jewish people whose eyes are finally opened to their need for a Messiah.”[16]
Some of his critics believe that Gabriel doesn’t actually exist. Among these are some professional people. Basim Ghozlan, “a former imam for the Islamic Association of Oslo (Det islamske forbundet i Osl) and now editor of the website http://www.islam.no”, denounced Gabriel and his book Islam and Terrorism. [17] [18]
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wth1257
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I once checked out a very interesting book on Eastern Orthodox theology(never got around to reading it), and while in Greece I went to several Greek Orthodox Church’s, I never actually attended a Mass, but lit a candle for a friend in Athens’s Cathedral.
So I appreciate your suggestions and will look into them
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wth1257
Guest
To the OP:
If you have a problem with Christianity’s belief in a trinity and deity of Jesus, Islam sounds good for you.
My one suggestion would be: do not get ensnared in the extremist form of the religion, the Wahhabists. Find a more moderate form of Islam, that everyone can live with!
My Uncle is Jewish, my mother’s very best friend is Jewish, and we have stayed with their family while visiting DC, and they are very close friends of the family.
I have no interest in indulging in the hateful anti-Semitism you see is fanatical Islam:thumbsup:
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wth1257
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Like I said, I am no Karl Rahner, however I take exception to your statement. No one “fully” understands the teachings of the RCC, hence the academic disputes of the Theologians. Extra Ecclisam Nulla Salus. This is a teaching of the Church, yet does Karl Rahner view this teaching of Joseph Ratzinger, one believes in “anonymous Christians”, the other has a more restrictive view, I would say. So the notion some the teachings of the Church are “fully understood” by anyone seems a bit fictitious to me
Like I said, I am no Theologian. I have a minimal knowledge of Catholicism, I would admit that.
Additionally, many former Catholics have had bad experiences with individual “hypocritical” Catholics.
I think the Catholic Doctrine if one allows for the assumptions of the validity of Scriptural recordings and the reliability of Scripture. That being said we do not incorporate all of Traditions teachings, the rather anti-Semitic tendencies of many Church Fathers has, thankfully, been more or less siphoned out.
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Charlie_Zeaiter
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You need to make a decision as to whether or not Jesus was crucified.
If you’re still Catholic, pray some Hail Marys - even pray the rosary - and do some research on Our Lady of Fatima. Heck - even if you’re not catholic, still pray some Hail Marys and do some research on Our Lady of Fatima.
Don’t worry about the Trinity. If you can’t decide whether or not a historical event such as the crucifixion of Jesus was real, then you’ll never understand the complex and infinite divine nature of God’s Trinity.
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