Why I identify as homosexual even while living chastely

[Edward_H]

Most conclusions on homosexuality here respond to the question of why it is not a choice by saying that it is a cross to bear. What does this actually mean? Is it any explanation? It cannot literally be a cross to bear in the same sense as Jesus’ cross, because Jesus bore that cross - no more crosses need to be borne!

No. Christ’s bearing of the Cross is still ever present to God His Father. His actions aren’t limited like ours are in space and time. When we only look at things through human eyes we get a very distorted view of the love of God. This is where a lot of Protestants get it severely wrong. They get stuck in our time zone, so to speak…and this leads to problems trying to understand free will and God’s sovereignty, etc, and other things.

His suffering is still as present to the Father as it was on Calvary. We are still able to be Simon of Cyrenes to Jesus. We can still walk with Jesus.

 

[TFK_Emery]

A very inspirational and insightful post, Raaicon! I’m fairly open about being bisexual, mostly because people ask questions and I don’t want to lie. I’m not ashamed, any more than I’m ashamed that a delicious cake makes me want to eat the whole thing. I’d be ashamed if I did indulge in gluttony, but the fact that I’m tempted isn’t shameful. I’ve found that this gives me a better background when defending the Church’s position on homosexuality, since, having experienced same sex attraction personally, I understand it.

 

[Raising3]

So do you not identify yourself as a heterosexual then??

I am mainly a lurker on these forums but I wanted to respond to this comment. I can honestly say that I do not identify myself as a heterosexual. When I read this comment, I gave this idea some serious thought. I am a woman who is married to a man but do not list “heterosexual” as one of my identities. I have been asked several times throughout my life “tell me about yourself” or “tell me who you are” and not once has “heterosexual” ever come into that response. Wife, mother, catholic, nurse, mexican american… have all been in that response but not once would it occur to me to add heterosexual as who I am is not defined by what gender I am attracted to and I think that is the point of some of the previous posters.

 

[Debora123]

I am mainly a lurker on these forums but I wanted to respond to this comment. I can honestly say that I do not identify myself as a heterosexual. When I read this comment, I gave this idea some serious thought. I am a woman who is married to a man but do not list “heterosexual” as one of my identities. I have been asked several times throughout my life “tell me about yourself” or “tell me who you are” and not once has “heterosexual” ever come into that response. Wife, mother, catholic, nurse, mexican american… have all been in that response but not once would it occur to me to add heterosexual as who I am is not defined by what gender I am attracted to and I think that is the point of some of the previous posters.

Haha, no, and I highly doubt anyone here is saying that homosexuals need to go around announcing that they are, or say it in an interview… and neither was that the point of the OP.

None the less, you ARE a heterosexual. Just as some people ARE homosexuals. Whether or not you say it in an interview doesn’t take away or add to the above truth.

 

[Raising3]

I’m sorry Debora123, I think you missed my point. I do not consider myself heterosexual. That is a label that people try to put on those of us that are attracted to the opposite gender. It is not that I don’t go around announcing it, it’s that it never occurred to me to identify myself as heterosexual. That is the point of some of the PP. Saying someone is homosexual is creating an identity to differentiate from being attracted to the opposite sex. I think Elizabeth’s articles were right on about this issue.

Just my 2 cents hoping to give another point of view.

 

[Debora123]

I’m sorry Debora123, I think you missed my point. I do not consider myself heterosexual. That is a label that people try to put on those of us that are attracted to the opposite gender. It is not that I don’t go around announcing it, it’s that it never occurred to me to identify myself as heterosexual. That is the point of some of the PP. Saying someone is homosexual is creating an identity to differentiate from being attracted to the opposite sex. I think Elizabeth’s articles were right on about this issue.

Just my 2 cents hoping to give another point of view.

Really? Wow, that’s weird. I guess I can’t speak for others, but I certainly consider myself a heterosexual… it’s what I am.

Not quite sure why acknowledging that truth is wrong, so I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[raaucoin]

When I startd this thread, it was to answer a frequently asked question. I tried to explain my answer and to show how I wasn’t in fact identifying myself as a sin. Some of you got it(what I was trying to say even if you disagreed) some of you have PM me. I thank you for your prayers and kind words. Others seem to really have a hard time accepting Church teaching on the subject of homosexuality, and yet accuse others of the same thing.

I remember before my decision to turn my life over to the Lord and to live as He and the Church call me to do. I would visit sites, or look for info that indicating that I was really welcomed to come home. If someone is struggling to come home and you are on this thread wondering WTH? Let me assure you that the teaching of the Church does not condem us for being gay. She doesn’t even condemn us if we are active. But She begs us to listen to the Voice of the Holy Spirit and trust her teaching. And there are many many in the real world who are waiting for you to come home. When I did, my Pastor cried,said “Welcome Home, You know you need the Church, but the Church needs you”
I say the same to anyone who for whatever reason has been away.
Don’t let what some post deter you.

 

[Captain_America]

What’s the exact cause of

-adults who like children
-adults who are adulterous
-adults who engage in prostitution,
-adults who engage in swinging, etc.
-adults who have fetishes and dwell on other peculiarities
-adults who nurse all manner of things in their imagination?

What’s the cause of all these?

What did Chesterton say…something to the effect of even a man visiting a bordello is still looking for God.

I think, unprofessional opinion only (but then again the professionals haven’t been really of one mind or of much help on this topic over the last 50 years) many of these non-normalities are people who are trying to find happiness in largely self-pleasure.

And that’s not how our soul has been constituted.

Interesting thought!

A followup is that in 2011, the general culture in society promotes widespread sexual indulgence as among the highest individual goods and pleasures. It’s sad to see sex promoted as an individual “right” since this suggests that vast areas of human living are so much NOT in our control. . . and that we only have this small square of personal freedom.

 

[John21652]

I’m sorry Debora123, I think you missed my point. I do not consider myself heterosexual. That is a label that people try to put on those of us that are attracted to the opposite gender. It is not that I don’t go around announcing it, it’s that it never occurred to me to identify myself as heterosexual. That is the point of some of the PP. Saying someone is homosexual is creating an identity to differentiate from being attracted to the opposite sex. I think Elizabeth’s articles were right on about this issue.

Just my 2 cents hoping to give another point of view.

You have made an excellent point.

You also have two legs, two arms and, I assume, a nose on your face. Why would anyone of us have to go around stating the obvious about what we are, particularly when, in the context of this discussion, around 97-99% of all human beings are heterosexual? Deborah123 has indeed missed the point, because, after all, how many ‘truths’ about yourself is it necessary to have to consider? It is only in the midst of all the ‘noise’ made by the homosexual lobby and their supporters that the question of one’s sexuality would ever have to be considered. Homosexuals, it would seem, have a need to identify themselves as such to differentiate themselves from the norm.

 

[Mark_David]

Now, when I admit to being a lesbian (and yes some people actually ask) my yes to that isn’t a proclamation of a sin, it is a declaration of faith because it is also followed by witness to the teachings of the Church and the awesome Power of God to give us what we need to live as He would have us no matter the issue or cause. I am a lesbian, a professional, a musician, a sister, daughter, an aunt, a friend, a child of God and His Church,A Cajun, an American. In all of those things, I am a sinner and a saint.

First and foremost, be a faithful Catholic. Labeling ourselves by our sexual preference is pretty meaningless and unhelpful if we’ve decided to be chaste. I am a heterosexual, but since I’m celibate, there’s little need to emphasize or even mention that. Unless I wanted to wear my sexual preference as a badge of pride, in which case, that would be questionable. Why would I want to do that. Let us define ourselves by what’s most important and holy, not what causes us to stumble.

 

[Elizabeth502]

Beautiful post, Mark. That is indeed, what the Church teaches. It does not teach us to identify with any kind of sexuality, but rather to identify as sons and daughters of God: if that is our undivided orientation, then everything else becomes ordered to Him, because we have committed to release our attachments to any other identity. It doesn’t mean that we are not realistic about our attachments, subsidiary ‘identities,’ attractions, & propensities. It’s always important to acknowledge our own truth in that journey, but that is different than a conflicting identity. In our person, we should be one and undivided.

 

[Debora123]

When I startd this thread, it was to answer a frequently asked question. I tried to explain my answer and to show how I wasn’t in fact identifying myself as a sin. Some of you got it(what I was trying to say even if you disagreed) some of you have PM me. I thank you for your prayers and kind words. Others seem to really have a hard time accepting Church teaching on the subject of homosexuality, and yet accuse others of the same thing.

I remember before my decision to turn my life over to the Lord and to live as He and the Church call me to do. I would visit sites, or look for info that indicating that I was really welcomed to come home. If someone is struggling to come home and you are on this thread wondering WTH? Let me assure you that the teaching of the Church does not condem us for being gay. She doesn’t even condemn us if we are active. But She begs us to listen to the Voice of the Holy Spirit and trust her teaching. And there are many many in the real world who are waiting for you to come home. When I did, my Pastor cried,said “Welcome Home, You know you need the Church, but the Church needs you”
I say the same to anyone who for whatever reason has been away.
Don’t let what some post deter you.

You seem like a truly remarkable person, Raacoin. I think everyone here can learn from your message.

 

[Elizabeth502]

Speaking of identity…
Another powerful program on The Abundant Life this evening, with the exceptional Melinda Selmys as the guest, in another fine appearance demonstrating her deep intelligence and profound honesty. Several excerpts from her book, Sexual Authenticity, were read by others. I found it quite appropriate how the others marvelled at the level of her honesty, and I fully agree with Dr. Rick Fitzgibbons that she is such a role model that she should be leading talks around the country, with the permission of bishops, both in Canada and here in the States.

I have heard her several times, and she never ceases to amaze me with her insight into the media’s manipulation and exploitation of the topic. What a woman.

 

[raaucoin]

Just came to work after daily Mass. In todays Gospel, Jesus calls His 12 and gives them authority.The 12 are named. Mathew is called “Mathew the tax collector”. I could be wrong but I don’t think he was still running off after breakfast to collect taxes. The significance is that tax collectors( maybe not all, but the general opinion of them) were horrible sinners- cheaters, liars etc. Why does the gospel at this point- after his conversion and admittance into the mission of Jesus-still identify him with something in his past that could identify him as a sinner of a particular sort? Could it be that that identification was meant to offer hope to others who were not only outside of the new community of followers, but also to those on the outside of the greater (Jewish) community. Could that lingering identification been a subtle offer of hope for those who otherwise may have thought that the good news was meant for everyone but sinners of a certain kind? Surely, if he would have said to someone who asked “aren’t you matthew the tax collector?” Yep! , but now I am something more than that by the grace and love of Jesus.
The life I once lived of a particular sin does not define me. But it was a part of my story of conversion. It has been a part of the hope that for some reason God has intrusted me to give.Do I believe every person who has experienced SSA should feel and live as I do? Absolutely not. Their story and calling to witness that must be discerned in the Spirit.
When I use the word “identify” I do not mean that I believe that all I am is a homosexual or person with SSA if you prefer. But it is part of who I am.Yes, in Jesus I am a new creation. But He didn’t do so by taking away my memories, experiences,or my past. He did it by taking those old building materials and making them into something He could use. He demo’d the house and used what materialsHecould salvage and of course placed the structure on solid ground.
I don’t know how to tell the story of the Ressurection with out telling of the passion and death of Jesus. Just as if I only told of His passion ands death it would have no meaning if I didn’t speak of the Ressurection. And if an actively gay person doubts the possibility of changing his or her life, I don’t know how to do that without giving a concrete example(my story). It is a terrifying experience to wake up and realize that to gain eternal life you risk loosing friends,sometimes even family members, job,everything you know and are familiar with, the entire way you viewd and thought about life, EVERYTHING. Some body better be able to say “I can relate to that fear, that pain.I can IDENTIFY with that- But here is the hope”

 

[Ahimsa]

Yes, we are all sinners. But your sin is particularly egregious.

You must repent of your Cajunness.

 

[raaucoin]

:tsktsk: Too Funny! But coming from any one other than a Jesus Buddhist, Dem could be fightin’ words,Cher!

 

[Melinda_Selmys]

Thanks for the pinch of incense Elizabeth
Seriously, the issues that OP has raised here aren’t simple. I don’t ID as lesbian, or as bi, but I also don’t ID as ex-gay. I’ve been married for ten years, I have six kids, but I still understand exactly what you’re talking about, raaucoin.
There is something to the “born that way” argument, and yet at the same time “sexual orientation” seems to be a really imperfect and inaccurate way of describing what’s going one when someone who is “gay” or “lesbian” feels different in a way that corresponds to those terms. I’ve been trying to work this out for twelve years now, and I still don’t have a good answer. I’m not attracted to men. I’m married to a man, but it took me several years of close emotional intimacy to learn to be attracted to him. I’m not so sure that I’m attracted to women either, though; I’ve come to realize that a lot of the feelings which I took for sexual attraction earlier in my life were aesthetic and that my sexual feelings attached to those aesthetic judgments because they needed something to cling to. Now that I’m married, I still have the same aesthetic reaction to female beauty, but it’s not complicated by sexual attraction anymore. Probably if I hadn’t had the good fortune to find a man who was willing to put in years of close emotional intimacy with a “lesbian” girl, I’d still have “same sex attractions,” and I’d still identify as lesbian.

 

[Elizabeth502]

Thanks for the pinch of incense Elizabeth

You’re welcome, and it was meant with enormous respect, of course, and with an intense interest in the compassionate view of the struggle, given a close male relative who has lived both in and out of the lifestyle. (Now away from it.) I approached last night’s program with as much of an intellectual interest as emotional and spiritual, and was not disappointed. The insights of all three of you furthered that intellectual engagement. In that light, I wholeheartedly second Dr. Rick’s suggestion of your being on speaking tour, as this has been something I have been privately wishing myself for some time. I say this not out of empty flattery but because I think experienced and honest voices are needed above the political din and the reductionist vocabulary used by so many on both “sides” (bad word) of the issue.

Some of your pertinent observations:

it took me several years of close emotional intimacy to learn to be attracted to him. I’m not so sure that I’m attracted to women either, though

I’ve come to realize that a lot of the feelings which I took for sexual attraction earlier in my life were aesthetic and that my sexual feelings attached to those aesthetic judgments because they needed something to cling to.

This ^ so resonates with the experience of my male relative! When I think of the loneliness he has suffered (something Dr. Rick mentioned rather eloquently last night), I ache to think of how we could have all helped him earlier with this, had he felt free to ‘come out’ about his confusion, neediness, alternating attractions, etc.

Now that I’m married, I still have the same aesthetic reaction to female beauty, but it’s not complicated by sexual attraction anymore.

Wow! This is precisely what has happened to him as well! He retains that positive aesthetic reaction to males, but not the erotic attraction.

Probably if I hadn’t had the good fortune to find a man who was willing to put in years of close emotional intimacy with a “lesbian” girl, I’d still have “same sex attractions,” and I’d still identify as lesbian.

Praise be to God.

 

[michelleds]

An amazing process inspired by the Holy Spirit led to my conversion of heart and mind and soul . i have returned to the Church and embraced the teaching of the Church and the will of God. I"m active in my parish and live in loving obedience to Christ present in myPastor, Archbishop, and Church.

I am a lesbian, a professional, a musician, a sister, daughter, an aunt, a friend, a child of God and His Church,A Cajun, an American. In all of those things, I am a sinner and a saint.

I haven’t had a chance yet to read anything other than the OP but I wanted to jump right in and applaud your insight and courage. I look forward to reading more of your posts.

 

[Melinda_Selmys]

“When I think of the loneliness he has suffered (something Dr. Rick mentioned rather eloquently last night), I ache to think of how we could have all helped him earlier with this, had he felt free to ‘come out’ about his confusion, neediness, alternating attractions, etc.”

The issue of loneliness is, I think, a big one in relation to homosexuality – a lot of people who ID as gay are people who, like myself and the OP, simply “felt” different from a very young age, and with that feeling of difference there are also often feelings of isolation, the sense that other people don’t understand, and especially a difficulty relating to other people of the same sex (it’s weird – even now, I can walk into a room filled with people and I’ll feel awkward talking to the other women…except for the lesbian. I’ll gravitate towards her and be comfortably talking in no time. A lot of lesbians I’ve talked to say that straight women just don’t make sense, and I can really understand that.) In any case, as a result it’s very difficult for people who have same-sex attractions to find supportive people to talk to outside of the LGBTQ community, because even when people are theoretically open there’s some sort of barrier there in terms of the way that we experience the world.