Why I left the Catholic Church

[RCCDefender]

And it was the Romans, not the Jews who did the crucifying of Jesus.

Yes, it was the Romans who crucified Jesus but only at the behest of the Jewish leaders. I don’t want to sound anti-semitic but let me quote:

Pilate then summoned the chief priests, the rulers, and the people and said to them, “You brought this man to me and accused him of inciting the people to revolt. I have conducted my investigation in your presence and have not found this man guilty of the charges you have brought against him, nor did Herod, for he sent him back to us. So no capital crime has been committed by him. Therefore I shall have him flogged and then release him.”
But all together they shouted out, “Away with this man! Release Barabbas to us.” (Now Barabbas had been imprisoned for a rebellion that had taken place in the city and for murder.) Again Pilate addressed them, still wishing to release Jesus, but they continued their shouting, “Crucify him! Crucify him!” Pilate addressed them a third time, “What evil has this man done? I found him guilty of no capital crime. Therefore I shall have him flogged and then release him.” With loud shouts, however they persisted in calling for his crucifixion, and their voices prevailed. The verdict of Pilate was that their demand should be granted. So he released the man who had been imprisoned for rebellion and murder, for whom they asked and he handed Jesus over to them to deal with as they wished. --Luke 23:13-25

See also Mark 15:6-15, Matt 27:15-26, John 18:28-40.

Sorry to go of topic, but the Jews at the time were nowhere near being innocent for the crucifixion. They said, “His blood be upon us and upon our children” (Matt 27:25). If they could have executed him themselves they would have, but they did not have that right (John 18:31).

That said I hold no animosity toward the Hebrew people. I just wanted to set the record straight.

Again, sorry to go off topic…

 

[Saint_Michael]

I agree no one should slam anyone. I was asking about a simple point of logic. Either one accepts it is the true Church or does not . If one accepts it is the true Church how can any reason be valid for rejecting Her?

I think after time people stop believing it’s the true Church, hence why they leave. If they still believed it were true, then there wouldn’t be a problem, and you would be correct there would be no valid reason for leaving a Church you believed 100% was God’s Church. But in the case of people who leave that is obviously not the case.

 

[Eden]

How can any reason be* valid* to turn away from the Church? One may mistakenly think such reasons are valid, but one would be mistaken

Agreed. There is never any valid reason for leaving His Church. But there are many valid excuses, if one looks for them. But then you have to wonder about someone who focuses on the sinners. If you want to find sinners in His Church, you’re going to find them.

Who is it that expects Jesus’ Church on earth would be a community filled with saints? That’s not what the Bible teaches. Saints and sinners are going to be sitting side by side with you in the pews, so if you chose to engage the sinners that’s your choice. But you are missing out on the great inspiration we receive from the saints by spending so much time ruminating on the sins of others. I’ve never heard anyone say, “I’m leaving the Church because Mother Teresa helped the poor” or “I’m leaving the Church because it has been recorded that many have been healed at Lourdes, where St. Bernadette saw the Blessed Virgin” or “I’m leaving the Church because Catholic Charities is one of the biggest charities in the world”. Yet those experiences are just as real within the Church as sinful priests abusing their authority.

 

[Mr_Jullien]

The OP is new to the forum!! These posting in this thread are the OP only postings!! When we are “new” to something we may not know exactly were to go. I honestly believe that the OP posted here because they want to be heard and want to be helped.

When you are calling out for help then you go where you are you feel you will be heard!

Also I just noticed that one of my links in an earlier post is bad. sorry.
How does the pill work? goaskalice.columbia.edu/0663.html
or prolife.com/BIRTHCNT.html These links should work.

Mommyof02green,

I hear you, but my issue is not that OP is leaving the Church or has problems w/Catholics and the Church.
My issue is centered on the initial accusations about Catholics, priests and the Holy Catholic Church which OP hurled at us.
Mickey kindly listed them for us in post #71.
They’re just downright mean.

Those sorts of comments/condemnations are not likely to inspire the sympathetic ear of everyone reading this thread.
Some, yes; others, no.
However, those of us who are not so inclined to be sympathetic at being condemned, along with the Holy Catholic Church, should be able to speak as freely as OP.

New to this forum or not, OP had to know his/her accusations toward Holy Mother Church, Her priests and parishioners, (and I won’t even get into the Holy Eucharist) were** inflammatory at the very least** and wouldn’t be taken with a grain of salt by everyone.

Attacks rarely promote empathy. However, honest dialogue is much more effective.

You seem like a fair person, so I ask you, please go back and re-read OP’s accusations, then tell me how wrong I am.

Thank you,

Jullien

P.S. – Thanks for the links.

 

[fix]

A I’ve never heard anyone say, “I’m leaving the Church because Mother Teresa helped the poor” or “I’m leaving the Church because it has been recorded that many have been healed at Lourdes, where St. Bernadette saw the Blessed Virgin” or “I’m leaving the Church because Catholic Charities is one of the biggest charities in the world”. Yet those experiences are just as real within the Church as sinful priests abusing their authority.

Very good and I will remember those wonderful examples for future use.

 

[Church_Militant]

What really bothers me about this thread is that DH (as Mickey pointed out) makes statements that any faithful Catholic will take offense to and then complains that he was treated badly.

Also the statements that he makes are rhetoric without substance.

Based on your first paragraph I’m surprised no one’s “told you off” yet on this thread, but then the Mod here in Apologetics doesn’t tolerate charity failings very much.

For instance, the Church has changed it’s official stance on a number of major topics to adapt to the times.

This whole paragraph is hooey. Furthermore those things that may have changed will turn out to be disciplines which can. So what? As for hypocrisy…that’s almost laughable…where there are people you will always find that. It’s rationalization to use it as an excuse for anything else…unless of course you find a way to bail from the human race.

Now, the Jews have so much clout…

This is bunk. You fault the Catholic Church for tolerance and charity towards non-Catholics and non-Christians? This is Damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don’t. The idea that it is based on influence is unsupportable propaganda.

The Church claims to advocate for the poor, but then they forbid birth control and pretend that having more children doesn’t cause problems for poor people, when in fact that’s not true. … but turns a blind eye at the fact that wealthy contributers use birth control.

This is also unsupportable propaganda. Can you give me the least shred of stats that might support this? No, you cannot.

The Church makes a big deal about it’s own communion being the only real one and the best one.

Hey… it’s a Biblical and historical fact, and you cannot refute it

Meanwhile, the Church is not even a functional Christian community. It’s clergy have alot of emotional problems, and there is so much disagreement…

More propaganda without the least proof. I don’t know of any stats that say that our priests have “a lot of emotional problems” As for disagreement…so what? Dialog and discussion are worthwhile and until such time as the Holy See offers a statement, it’s just conjecture.

If your parish is messed up…that’s why they have more than one parish on the planet.

Many things are tolerated in rich parishioners … The church has always pandered to the rich throughout history.

Really? Can you actually support that with facts or do you wanna just run with the rhetoric? There may have been individuals guilty of such, but the Church has never been guilty of such as an institution. That’s just plain false…and ignores the lives of so many saints that prove you dead wrong.

I think the Mennonites and Amish are the true models of Christian communities.

This is also bunk and shows an ignorance of Christian history. The Amish/Mennonites are generally nice people, but they are a long way doctrinally from the early church.

The Catholic Church has a bunch of neurotic priests,… I don’t know if it’s because they can’t get married, but I met alot of priests with emotional problems. Look at the sex scandels and homosexuality in the clergy.

And you are a qualified shrink capable of this diagnosis? I diagree. I know many priests and have yet to meet one with neuorsis (and I majored in psyche in college) and I have found none with serious emotional problems. All the ones I know have good personalities and have been examples of good Christians. If you had someone react badly to you then I’d suggest that you probably came on to them in the same way that you have here, in which case, I’d say that possibly you got a very normal human response. What did you expect?

As for your comments on the sex abuse scandal…you need to check your facts. There is nothing that indicates that celibacy is related to what went on. The problem is just as bad among n-C clergy and worse among educators.

… In the past 2 years I’ve gotten more and more fed up. Yes, I’ve tried to participate and improve my parish, but there were so many petty rivalries and poor leadership that I gave up.

And so haven’t tried to move to a new parish, which is what a rational person would do instead of heaving baby and bathwater.

…some of these other answers confirm my belief that Catholics are full of cruelty for one another and the Eucharist doesn’t help people in any way to love their fellow humans.

This is also hooey…You have phrased your complaints in every post with rhetoric that I can disprove and in a manner that any rational person would take offense to, and then you profess innocent surprise when someone is offended? That’s not “normal” either Dis.

Yet, I have responded rationally and with all the charity I can muster. I think you’re dead wrong and that you should back up and rethink your options.
Pax tecum,

 

[Church_Militant]

I left the Church, I don’t think I’m mistaken, not for the reason the OP did, you can disagree and that’s fine. But what I’m saying is the OP may think her reasons are valid. In that case the best approach probably isn’t saying “this is the true church”, and simply slam her upside the head with a catechism.

No one’s done that and you are wrong to assert it.

 

[fix]

I think after time people stop believing it’s the true Church, hence why they leave. If they still believed it were true, then there wouldn’t be a problem, and you would be correct there would be no valid reason for leaving a Church you believed 100% was God’s Church. But in the case of people who leave that is obviously not the case.

People walked away from Christ when He walked the earth. I cannot judge anyone’s culpability before God, but I can know that excuses are not valid.

 

[Saint_Michael]

No one’s done that and you are wrong to assert it.

I read the entire thread and formulated my opinion unbiased, of course what I wrote isn’t to be taken literally it’s obviously sarcastic, I don’t really believe people hit this women in the head with a catechism, but I believe people are being very heavy handed without trying to see other issues going on.

 

[a_cermak]

I read the entire thread and formulated my opinion unbiased, of course what I wrote isn’t to be taken literally it’s obviously sarcastic, I don’t really believe people hit this women in the head with a catechism, but I believe people are being very heavy handed without trying to see other issues going on.

And completely ignoring the Beattitudes (to say nothing of love your enemies as yourself or turn the other cheek).

 

[Disheartened]

Thanks for the responses, unfortunately this was probably not the best place to go with my jumbo of feelings and complaints. Ironically I did receive two very compassionate PMs that I just read that were actually from non-Catholics who post here, one of whom also left the Church for similar reasons. I’m sorry I offended so many people here, I guess I was trying to reach out one last time.

These people recommended that I seek out a church where I can have a genuine walk with Jesus Christ. I’m not anti-Semitic btw, I was just trying to point out an area where it appears the Church has done an about face in it’s attitude over the years.

Thanks to everyone who answered compassionately.

 

[Eden]

I think the Mennonites and Amish are the true models of Christian communities.

I just want to point out that the reason the Mennonites and the Amish are able to have their peaceful, separate lives is that we as a larger society protect them (by fighting Nazis, terrorists, criminals) so that they can live their peaceful lifestyle. The Mennonites and Amish would not be able to exist without us. I think they are wonderful people and I always enjoyed going to their farms and buying their fresh fruits and vegetables when I lived near an Amish community. But evil exists in the world and our society has served to (for the most part, the latest tragedy notwithstanding) insulate them from that evil.

 

[Mr_Jullien]

Hey CM,

I thought I was the resident “ogre” on this thread.

.And you are a qualified shrink capable of this diagnosis? I diagree. I know many priests and have yet to meet one with neuorsis (and I majored in psyche in college) and I have found none with serious emotional problems. All the ones I know have good personalities and have been examples of good Christians. If you had someone react badly to you then I’d suggest that you probably came on to them in the same way that you have here, in which case, I’d say that possibly you got a very normal human response. What did you expect?

PAX TECUM,

Jullien

 

[fix]

These people recommended that I seek out a church where I can have a genuine walk with Jesus Christ.

…It is possible for a man to receive wrong directions and yet arrive in course of time at his due place. But that does not make the direction right. Some people go wrong with right directions and others go right with wrong directions. Cardinal Newman hit this off when he said that many Catholics were worse than their religion while Protestants in many cases were better than their religion. After all, religion does not physically oblige any one to follow it. It simply points out the right way and gives aid to walk in it. It can happen that a member of the true religion may lead a bad life and lose his soul, while a member of a false religion may, by living up to conscience, save his soul. That does not make the false religion true, nor the true religion false.

An exceptional person may in any department of life rise above the level of the principles and conduct of his fellows. But religion concerns not merely exceptional cases but mankind generally. And generally a false religion will direct its adherents wrongly, and the true religion will direct its followers right…
Things Catholics Are Asked About

 

[TheGarg]

I don’t know where the OP faith is or isn’t, and I will not cast judgment. However, I did note that in one of the postings the OP stated that they were a convert to the faith…

I can only wonder if this is weighing in on their emotions…

There is definitely more to the story!

sounds to me like the OP needs a good dose of self-analysis…my ex is always looking to fault something besides herself, so i am a bit jaded…

to me its like a 5 x divorcee blaming the opposite sex for all thier problems…if you failed at it 5 times, you had better talk a hard long look at yourself

 

[a_cermak]

I just want to point out that the reason the Mennonites and the Amish are able to have their peaceful, separate lives is that we as a larger society protect them (by fighting Nazis, terrorists, criminals) so that they can live their peaceful lifestyle. The Mennonites and Amish would not be able to exist without us. I think they are wonderful people and I always enjoyed going to their farms and buying their fresh fruits and vegetables when I lived near an Amish community. But evil exists in the world and our society has served to (for the most part, the latest tragedy notwithstanding) insulate them from that evil.

Actually we (larger society) do an even greater service to them than that. We serve as their exile! Do something bad enough, get cast out into darkness (in their case, we’re the darkness).

I can see their point. They’re able to live without a police force in most of their communities. Our towns rarely even grow to 300 souls without having some level of crime.

I don’t think anyone can dispute the Amish people’s example of Christian forgiveness that’s been on display in the last couple of weeks. If their life weren’t so hard, they’d probably get a lot of new converts.

 

[Saint_Michael]

I don’t think anyone can dispute the Amish people’s example of Christian forgiveness that’s been on display in the last couple of weeks. If their life weren’t so hard, they’d probably get a lot of new converts.

It’s a bizarre ideology though. I saw a story where an amish girl was repeatedly raped hundreds of times by her two older brothers. She contacted authorities and the men were arrested, at their trial the Amish people showed up in support of the rapist brothers crying and distraught. The young girl who was raped was exiled from the community, and not a tear was shed for her having to endure hundreds of rapes. She didn’t forgive her brothers and got them arrested so they had no use for her, she’s on her own, her family doesn’t speak to her.

It’s not nearly as rosie as it appears.

 

[DaughterSorrow]

Disheartened,

It is difficult to perservere in times of spiritual dryness or doubt, but this is where the rubber meets the road. This is where we must try even harder and not turn away. “Look not on our sins, but on the faith of the church to grant us the peace and unity to live in Your kingdom forever and ever” as the liturgy proclaims. It’s hard to be around people that are not faithful when you want to be, so who is the most faithful to be around? Jesus! He will in turn help YOU be more faithful and if you choose to let Him live in you, you can’t help but be contagious around your fellow parishioners (and family and friends)!

A kind soul mentioned sitting in front of the Blessed Sacrament. I would counsel the same. Sit in prayer with our Lord every week. Based also on your quick comments on the power of the Eucharist, I would also suggest reading the book of John, chapter 6. These readings were covered earlier this summer and are very powerful with regards to the Eucharist and its central role in the Liturgy.

You should also consider asking Mary for aid. She was obedient to God in the hardest of circumstances!

(Also, you might consider a novena to St. Joseph, as he has helped in times of difficulty.)

I will pray for you, Disheartened, that your love of the Lord will increase just through wanting it and asking for it in prayer.

Hope this helps.

May the peace of Christ be with you always,
DS

 

[a_cermak]

It’s a bizarre ideology though. I saw a story where an amish girl was repeatedly raped hundreds of times by her two older brothers. She contacted authorities and the men were arrested, at their trial the Amish people showed up in support of the rapist brothers crying and distraught. The young girl who was raped was exiled from the community, and not a tear was shed for her having to endure hundreds of rapes. She didn’t forgive her brothers and got them arrested so they had no use for her, she’s on her own, her family doesn’t speak to her.

It’s not nearly as rosie as it appears.

Yea, I’m sure there are issues in their community too. This one you cite seems bizarre, for instance. I was only referring to their actions in these last couple of weeks.

In that case, was part of the problem that she went to the “English” court system for recourse?

 

[Mommyof02green]

Mommyof02green, I hear you, but my issue is not that OP is leaving the Church or has problems w/Catholics and the Church.
My issue is centered on the initial accusations about Catholics, priests and the Holy Catholic Church which OP hurled at us.
Mickey kindly listed them for us in post #71. They’re just downright mean.

I realize that, but I realize that there has to be more to the story! The OP stated that they were an convert to the faith! So something had to move them to convert. What was it???

Now the OP wants to leave and clearly has some hostility. Where is the hostility coming from??? Do they have relatives that were not happy about them becoming Catholic??? Did they join the CC thinking it was going to give them “lasting happiness” and everyone would be Saints??? Did they think that once they joined the CC everything would be a cake walk?

Also the OP has stated that they have been hurt by follow Catholics. What happen??? Who are these follow Catholics??? Also did a follow Catholic hurt them right before posting??? Was that the last straw for them??? Did they just lash out here on the forum???

When we are full of anger we say and do things that we don’t mean to do. I’ve had my moments where I just snapped at the kids or hubby for no “real” reason. Is that what the OP has done here???

Those sorts of comments/condemnations are not likely to inspire the sympathetic ear of everyone reading this thread.
Some, yes; others, no. However, those of us who are not so inclined to be sympathetic at being condemned, along with the Holy Catholic Church, should be able to speak as freely as OP.

I’m not suggesting that we all can’t speak freely. However, I think that some times holding back our tongues until we know the whole story is good. I’m just choosing to hold back my tongue until I know the whole story.

New to this forum or not, OP had to know his/her accusations toward Holy Mother Church, Her priests and parishioners, (and I won’t even get into the Holy Eucharist) were** inflammatory at the very least** and wouldn’t be taken with a grain of salt by everyone.

Attacks rarely promote empathy. However, honest dialogue is much more effective.

Again I don’t take any of this with a grain of salt. I’m just choosing to hold back until I know the whole story. I may never know the whole story. However, that won’t stop me from praying for the OP. You are right honest dialogue is much more effective. Hopefully the OP will come back and share what is really going on. Although, they may not…if they felt everyone was being to judgmental.

You seem like a fair person, so I ask you, please go back and re-read OP’s accusations, then tell me how wrong I am.

Thank you,

Jullien

You are not wrong, your “feeling” are just as vaild as the OP. You have been hurt by what your follow “Catholic” (maybe ex-catholic) has said. The OP has been hurt by what their follow “Catholics” have said and done. There is nothing that can be done about the hurt that has already been caused.

However we can stop futher hurt from happening. One way to do that is to stop and and ask: What is really going on here??"

I’ve read that God made man be is strong in body, keen in mind, practical and inventive. He is protective and comforting, full of assurance, confidence and self-knowledge with special abilities to provide and care for his family.

And God made women to be a gentle, loving bond who encourages, consoles, builds, reconciles and makes all things new and vibrant. The woman is strength in time of suffering, courageous in failure, intuitive in time of danger.

So maybe you are just be “protective” and I’m just being “consoling”.

P.S. – Thanks for the links.

your welcome.