Why Is Catholicism So Unattractive to Evangelicals?

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FollowChrist34 said:
and the mainstream more liberal denominations “dying.” (Why oh why can’t Catholics read this writing on the wall? Cardinal Marx, (name removed by moderator)ut?)
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Are mainstream liberal Protestant denominations dying more than the Catholic Church is dying in most of Europe?
 
Peter_J said:
Interesting. I myself sometimes escape into a fantasy where I’m walking – sometimes it’s on grass, sometimes on a sidewalk, sometimes on stairs or just a floor, but in every fantasy I seem to do things by moving my arms and legs, and communicate by moving my mouth without touching anything, and I see these really big fancy smilies. Has that ever happened to you?
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I’m often struck by the amazing detail—hair, teeth, eyes with variously colored irises— in those big smilies. It’s almost like…like…like they’re real:eek:. And sometimes it’s hot or cold or sunny or rainy in my escapist world. Weird.🤷
 
Thorolfr said:
Are mainstream liberal Protestant denominations dying more than the Catholic Church is dying in most of Europe?
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Maybe - or probably as much as mainstream liberal Protestant Churches are dying in Europe, but actually I think most of that happened a century or two ago. 😉
 
Divisions weaken unity…along with nationalism…but not the Orthodox which has its imperialistic connections to governments such as Russia.

Christianity will possibly be replaced by Islam in Europe. Africa is destined to be a huge Catholic continent in so many years. And the Americas are destined to be more Christian.
 
FollowChrist34 said:
Do you believe that there is an established doctrine of Christianity (one truth as revealed in Scripture) or that doctrine is relative?
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Good questions. I believe that our understanding of God and what He wants from us is evolving. As a result, I don’t believe that Scripture is inerrant but only describes encounters by its authors with God. As such, in my opinion, it represents their understanding of God at that point in human history. But it is not the final word on God or our relationship with Him.
 
KathleenGee said:
But I also think part of the reason Evangelicals are not drawn to Catholicism is simply because they do not utilize history too much. Many Christians have come into the Church after studying early church history and the early Church Fathers…so this takes one beyond a personal, even emotional encounter to that more transcendent, universal…all time.
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But many, many Evangelicals do indeed utilize history but don’t convert. Some convert to Catholicism from study, and then study more and return to Protestantism. People come to all sorts of different conclusions about which church to belong to based on thoughtful, protracted study of history.

And just speaking from my own limited experience, I’m more historically aware than Catholics I know offline. In any church, I’m not convinced that too many people read much history.
 
KathleenGee said:
Divisions weaken unity…along with nationalism…but not the Orthodox which has its imperialistic connections to governments such as Russia.

Christianity will possibly be replaced by Islam in Europe. Africa is destined to be a huge Catholic continent in so many years. And the Americas are destined to be more Christian.
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Agree - Christianity is dead in Europe with the exception of Orthodox in Russia, maybe Greece. Eastern Europe is a hold out - Poland - to a lesser degree, for Catholicism. Western Europe - dead - Muslim, secularism - the Catholic Church is very corrupted and weak. In Denmark they are turning cathedrals into ice skating rinks.

The Pope mentioned that he was impressed during his visit about the piety of the American people. Sounds odd to somebody on CAF but in fact the Church - Catholic and Protestant - is alive in the US. We are more blessed than we think in this regard. The Christian Church is far from down (also look at Asia, Africa).
 
Thorolfr said:
Good questions. I believe that our understanding of God and what He wants from us is evolving. As a result, I don’t believe that Scripture is inerrant but only describes encounters by its authors with God. As such, in my opinion, it represents their understanding of God at that point in human history. But it is not the final word on God or our relationship with Him.
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I would advise putting a crash helmet on, maybe get a bodyguard, before telling that to Martin Luther or the Missouri Synod …😉

I think Scripture is true once and for all. All time. To eternity. But I agree it gets interpreted differently by different cultures. Also I believe that Scripture was put together by the Church and that tradition - Church Fathers, etc. - also nourish “truth” and “faith” along with prayer. There are contradictions and complexities about Scripture to no end. But I would not go against its accepted interpretation without fearing for my salvation, regardless of what the Church tells me differently today or tomorrow.
 
Thorolfr said:
Good questions. I believe that our understanding of God and what He wants from us is evolving. As a result, I don’t believe that Scripture is inerrant but only describes encounters by its authors with God. As such, in my opinion, it represents their understanding of God at that point in human history. But it is not the final word on God or our relationship with Him.
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What!!! I love you and care for you , but that sounded heretical to me , the truths of scriptures are always true .
 
Della said:
It’s just plain not true that the Church is mired in the past and has nothing more for us. Anyone who seriously puts forward such an idea hasn’t plumbed the depths of the sacraments or Catholic spirituality. These are not only alive and well–they are enlivening and totally fulfilling–for those who take advantage of them. When I was on the Evangelical side of Christianity I was always longing for depth rather than for mere “shots in the arm” approach to a relationship with Christ. Now, as a Catholic, I have that depth at my disposal to the degree I am willing to give myself to God.
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I never said the Church, I said Catholics.

I’m glad you’ve found your home, but take an average evangelical church, there are lots of friends, house groups, intimate spirituality. The average Catholic church seems very dry in comparison.

You may dismiss it as “shots in the arm” but community is for many the essence of Christianity. Intellectual or inward-facing spirituality may indeed have some kind of depth to plumb, but doesn’t “radiate encouragement and enthusiasm”, to borrow Ratzinger’s phrase.
 
inocente said:
I never said the Church, I said Catholics.

I’m glad you’ve found your home, but take an average evangelical church, there are lots of friends, house groups, intimate spirituality. The average Catholic church seems very dry in comparison.

You may dismiss it as “shots in the arm” but community is for many the essence of Christianity. Intellectual or inward-facing spirituality may indeed have some kind of depth to plumb, but doesn’t “radiate encouragement and enthusiasm”, to borrow Ratzinger’s phrase.
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My Catholic Church is a community and not “dry” .
 
Thorolfr said:
Good questions. I believe that our understanding of God and what He wants from us is evolving. As a result, I don’t believe that Scripture is inerrant but only describes encounters by its authors with God. As such, in my opinion, it represents their understanding of God at that point in human history. But it is not the final word on God or our relationship with Him.
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Not a very Protestant view.
 
Thorolfr said:
Good questions. I believe that our understanding of God and what He wants from us is evolving. As a result, I don’t believe that Scripture is inerrant but only describes encounters by its authors with God. As such, in my opinion, it represents their understanding of God at that point in human history. But it is not the final word on God or our relationship with Him.
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On what basis do you believe that?
 
Tomyris said:
On what basis do you believe that?
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There are too many contradictions in Christian and Jewish Scriptures for me to consider them all inerrant.

Nor do I believe that all Truth resides in any one religious tradition or its sacred books. If that were the case, it would seem terribly unjust to me. To give an example, as one book I have reminded me recently, the great Maya ruler K’inich Janaab’ Pakal ascended the throne of the city state of Palenque in the rain forests what is now Chiapas, Mexico in July 615 A.D. And of course, the Maya of this area were not Christians and practiced a polytheistic form of religion which had developed in that part of the world over thousands of years and they would not find out about Christianity until the Spaniards came there more than 877 years later. And the people in this part of the world had been cut off from the Old World for about 10,000 years or more. So why would God abandon these people there for hundreds and thousands of years with no knowledge of true religion and no knowledge of Christ if that is the only way to achieve salvation? Or maybe some of the Truth does reside in the religion which was practiced by the Maya which would mean that not all of the Truth resides in Christian Scripture. Maybe God is bigger and more complicated than what can fit in any one religious tradition and any one body of sacred texts.
 
Thorolfr said:
There are too many contradictions in Christian and Jewish Scriptures for me to consider them all inerrant.

Nor do I believe that all Truth resides in any one religious tradition or its sacred books. If that were the case, it would seem terribly unjust to me. To give an example, as one book I have reminded me recently, the great Maya ruler K’inich Janaab’ Pakal ascended the throne of the city state of Palenque in the rain forests what is now Chiapas, Mexico in July 615 A.D. And of course, the Maya of this area were not Christians and practiced a polytheistic form of religion which had developed in that part of the world over thousands of years and they would not find out about Christianity until the Spaniards came there more than 877 years later. And the people in this part of the world had been cut off from the Old World for about 10,000 years or more. So why would God abandon these people there for hundreds and thousands of years with no knowledge of true religion and no knowledge of Christ if that is the only way to achieve salvation? Or maybe some of the Truth does reside in the religion which was practiced by the Maya which would mean that not all of the Truth resides in Christian Scripture. Maybe God is bigger and more complicated than what can fit in any one religious tradition and any one body of sacred texts.
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Has it occurred to you that you are not the first one who has thought this, and this is all well answered? Instead of your own speculations, have you looked into what others have thought and written on this subject? Perhaps these are not your own speculations - if they are, forgive me - but I know the Reformed can easily answer this, and I expect LCMS and the Catholics can as well. Without abandoning the idea of special revelation.
 
Tomyris said:
Has it occurred to you that you are not the first one who has thought this, and this is all well answered? Instead of your own speculations, have you looked into what others have thought and written on this subject? Perhaps these are not your own speculations - if they are, forgive me - but I know the Reformed can easily answer this, and I expect LCMS and the Catholics can as well. Without abandoning the idea of special revelation.
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I’ve read explanations but haven’t found any that are very convincing to me and I am probably moving towards agnosticism.
 
PRmerger said:
It is the natural, logical progression, I think, when one rejects the inspiration of the Scriptures.
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Debates here in CAF have really pushed me in this direction more than anything that has happened to me in some time. What am I supposed to believe about a religion which tries to justify slavery. St. Augustine wrote in his Enarrationes in Psalmos:

“if you see your slave living badly, what other punishment will you curb him with, if not the lash? Use it: do. God allows it. In fact he is angered if you don’t. But do it in a loving rather than a vindictive spirit.”

“Servumque ipsum tuum, si male viventem videris, non poena aliqua, non verberibus refrenabis? fiat hoc, fiat : admittit deus, imo reprehendit, si no fiat ; sed animo dilectionis fac : non animo ultionis.”

The Old Testament plainly allows slavery:

Leviticus 25:44-46
44 As for the male and female slaves whom you may have, it is from the nations around you that you may acquire male and female slaves. 45 You may also acquire them from among the aliens residing with you, and from their families that are with you, who have been born in your land; and they may be your property. 46 You may keep them as a possession for your children after you, for them to inherit as property.
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This kind of thing raises doubts in my mind about all religion, not just Christianity or Judaism.
 
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