Why Is Catholicism So Unattractive to Evangelicals?

[Starwarsfan2]

You’re not missing much. Their forums are terrible to Catholics, imo

depends .

 

[Faith1960]

Hello dronald,

Yes, English speaking Catholics are terrible at the fellowship part. In non-English speaking nations, Catholics are WAY better.

While I wish Catholic parishes were better with fellowship, there are some reasons why it’s not the case in English speaking North America (esp the United States) – just look how close-nit the Spanish ministries are in our Catholic Parishes (or the personal parishes which are based on ethnic/national heritage), if you don’t believe me.

1. parishes are built in neighborhoods and boundaries are assigned. People typically attend the parish they live in. Historically, that means that the parishioners knew each other outside of Church and did things together at home. Extended families attended Mass together, then had brunch or dinner after mass together. Sunday, was a day for God and family. Close friends/neighbors were also sometimes included. Additionally, parishioners would attend parish activities during the week. Daily Mass, devotions at night, Knights of Columbus, Knight of Columbus Auxiliary, Legion of Mary, bingo, etc. So the social part of the parish took place Monday through Saturday. Sunday was strictly for Mass and Family, as the fellowship took place during the week.
2. evangelical communities have a different course of development, especially the larger ones and the “non-denominational” ones. A focus on fellowship became extremely important when protestants started attending different denominations, instead of staying in the one they were born in. The evangelical communities were very good at this, and frankly because they had to be. With the creation of the non-denominational communities, members were joining where their extended family did not attend. So when you had more people picking their place of worship based on the preacher, and not where their family attends or where they live, a focus on fellowship becomes very important to help make them part of the community.
3. Where I believe Catholic parishes miss the boat is due the following demographic changes in American society:
   – today, especially in the suburbs and gentrified urban areas, people don’t know their neighbors. Other than their immediate neighbors, they may often never speak to people in their neighborhood, especially if they don’t have kids.
   – on average, people don’t live in their homes as long as they did in the past, and people move more (on average), so they don’t get as close to their neighbors as you would if you lived next door to someone for 25 years.
   – more people live today in parishes where they do not have family, and many live far from their families (like me).
   – less practicing Catholic attend parish activities during the week and some parishes don’t have a full plate of activities during the week, other than daily mass.
4. Catholics also participate in Catholic groups outside of our parish. We often attend events at other parishes, or Catholic clubs which are located and meet elsewhere (whether Knights of Columbus or something else). We also attend events sponsored by the Diocese or Catholic apostolates, like the Catholic Answers Cruise.
5. Finally, many Catholic parish activities are still run by the lay members who have lived there for years. They often do not understand the fellowship needs of transplants and converts because they are receiving their fellowship needs during the week from their Catholic neighbors, friends, activities, etc.

As a transplant, I totally understand that Catholic parishes are not the best at fellowship – especially when it comes to converts and transplants. But it is important to understand that in (at least) English speaking Catholic parishes, our fellowship takes place with our families and during the week.

Most Catholics will tell you that we would like more coffee socials, etc. however, many of the women who run them frankly want to get home to their grandkids, etc. They have brunch or dinner planned for the extended families, etc.

In order to expand this, we need the converts and transplants (like me) to volunteer and fill that need. Otherwise, the nice ladies (God Bless them) who have attended the parish for 40 years will continue to do run those socials just once in a while because that is what they can commit to.

God Bless

BTW - in most (not all) Cathedrals, you are not going to find a lot of fellowship. The local parishes are typically much better for that. Reason, many Cathedrals are not actually parishes, and the ones that are parishes are often run like they are not (pastor being identified as Rector, etc). Most Cathedrals focus on being place of pilgrimage, vs being a local parish. However, there are exceptions and some Cathedrals that are working on developing an active parish schedule of events, for example, some Cathedrals have started Young Catholic Adult groups, ambassadors, tour guides, etc.

Also, in regards to having dinner with Catholic Pastors, since they have hundreds or thousands of parishioners (and no wife), it’s often not realistic for them to invite people to dinner. However, they often attend when parishioners invite them to dinner (if their schedules are not crazy - as many are).

God Bless

My pastor has just been assigned to the Cathedral here and is going to be their rector. What IS a rector and what do they do? Do they say Mass or is it an administrative position?

 

[PRmerger]

We discussed things with respect, affection, and humor.

That sounds like how we do things here on CAFs.

Of course, there are always a few folks who get offended easily, as well as folks who are offensive, but the majority of posters here know how to dialogue with bonhomie and levity, while still being able to disagree about doctrinal issues.

 

[AbideWithMe]

I presume Catholics on CAF, even those with whom you disagree, receive the benefits of this wisdom and patience (with which I concur 100%). Such as myself?

Poorly postioned reply by me—Certainly. What probably does not come across well via internet is that I actually have friendly intent towards almost everyone here. The few who I get overly annoyed with I try to avoid. I am a middle-aged, introverted, soft-spoken petite woman in real life. I “hear” my written posts in my own voice, and I know my own friendly intent even when I’m expressing exasperation, but I’m trying to take into account that my posts may be coming across as grouchier than the same words would seem if spoken by me IRL…not that I’m not a real grouch sometimes.

I find it sad that Jesus Christ and the Gospel didn’t make this list. I hope the Catholic Church isn’t just a cool, positive, peace-loving alternative to Goth. Seriously, I am totally with you on most of this if not all. I would list the Bible first (…and all that it entails). Try Richard Rolle too - Augustine, Aquinas, St. John of the Cross. Merton I can take in small doses - one of two paragraphs a day is about right. The Seven-Story Mountain just about killed me…who knew Buddhist monasticism could be so smug…?

Regarding Jesus and the Gospel, I was just listing Catholic distinctives. I’ve heard of Richard Rolle–I’ll look for some of his writing… Thanks to C.S. Lewis’ influence among others, since high school I’ve read Augustine, Aquinas, Bernard of Clairveaux and others; St. John of the Cross is—practicing the using the remnants of rusty high school Spanish whenever I can -- the San Juan de la Cruz I mentioned.

 

[PRmerger]

I don’t know. I was just trying to point out that there were more than the two choices you were offering.

Nope. Whether he was called the Vicar of Peter or the Vicar of Christ or the Supreme Pontiff or the Holy Father…they are all titles for the same position, AWM.

And I think you know that.

And the point remains: either he is the Supreme Pontiff, the Holy Father, the Vicar of Peter, the Vicar of Christ…

or he is not.

Both positions cannot be true.

And that means, someone who disagrees with the CC on this is either…correct…

or wrong.

 

[PRmerger]

Yet another good example of what makes the Catholic Church Unattractive.

What does this mean? How does this reflect badly on the Catholic Church?

 

[PRmerger]

The reason that more Evangelicals and protestants haven’t converted to the Catholic Church is because their current beliefs haven’t been insulted enough yet.

Just so you know, SP, insulting others’ beliefs is not permitted here on the CAFs.

However, it does need to be said that when a Catholic says, for example, “Your belief that baptism is only an ordinance is absolutely incorrect” and the receiver is insulted…that says more about the receiver than the Catholic.

 

[AbideWithMe]

That sounds like how we do things here on CAFs.

Of course, there are always a few folks who get offended easily, as well as folks who are offensive, but the majority of posters here know how to dialogue with bonhomie and levity, while still being able to disagree about doctrinal issues.

At best, I agree CAF is like this. At worst, even on average, it’s quite different than the other forum I mentioned. That forum’s primary focus is devotional–it was started and sponsored by a group of nuns, though the moderator is a man-- not apologetics, so any potentionally contentious discussions are wrapped in an atmosphere of a much smaller, quieter group of people who know each more intimately. CAF, on the other hand, has apologetics and debate as a central reason for founding and continuation, so it’s naturally a more adversarial atmosphere; I was surprised when I came here at the number of avatars with sword-bearing horseman on rearing warhorses.

Plus, the other forum was a naturally attractive spot for introverts, like a retreat space, much slower paced and more laid back. Here, people tend to feel more aggressive, demanding and pushy to me—which I realize is partly due to my quiet country-girl introvert sensibilities.

 

[AbideWithMe]

Nope. Whether he was called the Vicar of Peter or the Vicar of Christ or the Supreme Pontiff or the Holy Father…they are all titles for the same position, AWM.

And I think you know that.

And the point remains: either he is the Supreme Pontiff, the Holy Father, the Vicar of Peter, the Vicar of Christ…

or he is not.

Both positions cannot be true.

And that means, someone who disagrees with the CC on this is either…correct…

or wrong.

No, I really don’t think being titled the vicar of Christ is the same as being titled the vicar of Peter. New thread material?

 

[AbideWithMe]

Regarding Jesus and the Gospel, I was just listing Catholic distinctives. I’ve heard of Richard Rolle–I’ll look for some of his writing… Thanks to C.S. Lewis’ influence among others, since high school I’ve read Augustine, Aquinas, Bernard of Clairveaux and others; St. John of the Cross is—practicing the using the remnants of rusty high school Spanish whenever I can -- the San Juan de la Cruz I mentioned.

Just for clarity’s sake, that’s my reply in the middle of the quote box in post 474, calling myself an occasional grouch, not FollowChrist34 saying that about himself/herself.

 

[PRmerger]

No, I really don’t think being titled the vicar of Christ is the same as being titled the vicar of Peter. New thread material?

What’s the difference?

That’s like saying, "I don’t believe that American soccer is the same as European football’.

Those are just 2 different names for the same game.

 

[AbideWithMe]

What’s the difference?

That’s like saying, "I don’t believe that American soccer is the same as European football’.

Those are just 2 different names for the same game.

Back to work for me, but if we can keep this digression very brief, I’ll reply here after my work day.

 

[Peter_J]

I can understand that perspective by use of my imagination to be compassionate (IOW to imaginatively speculate that some of us appear just as snotty to Catholics as some of you do to us) but, as a lifelong Evangelical of pretty wide experience, it still feels to me that are larger number of Catholics are way more holier-than-thou towards Evangelicals than most of us (particularly those under about 50 years old) are in reverse.

That’s a possibility, but I’m skeptical. There are many differences between the two sides, obviously, but human nature is the same.

 

[Adamski]

Because evangelicalism is based on emotion and not logic or reason

 

[Starwarsfan2]

Because evangelicalism is based on emotion and not logic or reason

no don’t think so

 

[PRmerger]

Back to work for me, but if we can keep this digression very brief, I’ll reply here after my work day.

Sounds good!

 

[AbideWithMe]

That’s a possibility, but I’m skeptical. There are many differences between the two sides, obviously, but human nature is the same.

Because evangelicalism is based on emotion and not logic or reason

^^Exhibit A, PeterJ, lol.

Seriously, I do think human nature is the same on either side, but I was trying to say that we’re each most aware of bashes to our own side—so for me, who deeply cherishes my Evangelical Christian upbringing, it feels like Catholics are the snottier bashers simply because I’m more aware of something I love being slammed: it’s my toes which are being crushed by a half-ton horse’s hoof, while the horse is unaware that he’s standing on my foot (till I yowl). By use of imaginative compassion, I can see where Catholics would feel something they love is being trashed by non-Catholics, and would be just as aware of the transgression against their cherished faith as I am aware of transgressions against mine. (Note: By transgressions I don’t mean disagreements or debates; they can be done respectfully, but often aren’t, particularly by us amateurs.)

 

[AbideWithMe]

Sounds good!

Speaking of horses above, one of mine is a wonderful half-Andalusian from an awesome Spanish Carthusian sire, a breed of horse (like Shadowfax in the LOTR movies, Arwen’s horse, and Cinderella’s horse in the recent movie) which was preserved by Carthusian monks. He’s a great horse, but I left a gate open earlier by mistake and he lead his companions into a ten acre hilly pasture in which I didn’t want them in right now. As soon as I got off the internet before, being late in letting them out into the pasture where I did want them, I saw he’d found my careless mistake. I’ve just spent the last several hours rounding up horses, up and down hills, over and over. I. Am. Exhausted. If my half-Cartujano wasn’t such a fundamentally good-natured horse (thank you, Cartujano monks) I’d still be out there in the dark rounding the rascals up from a field of rich grass which they shouldn’t be grazing at this time of year.

Anyway, I need a break before I get back into the discussion.:coolinoff:

 

[Peter_J]

^^Exhibit A, PeterJ, lol.

Now you’re confusing me … Do you mean the reason that Catholicism is so Unattractive to Evangelicals isn’t because evangelicalism is based on emotion and not logic or reason?

(Sorry about the above, my already-quirky sense of humor seems to be on the fritz tonight. I probably shouldn’t post so late, especially on days when I watched an abnormally large amount of news. )

 

[Adamski]

Another option, the one I see most is evangelical christians are not willing to give up things such as contraception, divorce and remarriage, or attending mass every Sunday