Why is getting drunk and gambling okay?

[scylla]

So all the Catholics on this board have stated that it is sinful to be drunk and to gamble to the detriment of ones spiritual life.
This is like the sin of gluttony also, but no one complians about the little Baptist Church down the street encouraging sin by offering a spaghetti dinner, because no-one really is encouraged to be bigoted about the little Baptist Church down the street.

Unfortunately this is common with the Catholic Church in that people will take one belief, misrepresent it then attack the misrepresentation. This is not honest but the only way to attack the Catholic Church and is very common. I would encourage the original poster to think about if these attacks that probably someone presented to him as something wrong with the Catholic Church are honest attacks.
Now if the sinful actions of people in the Catholic Church are universally accepted and applauded by Catholics then he might have a point but then only if these people applauding are encouraging official Catholic belief.

As we can see the sinful actions of people do not necessarily prove any system wrong unless those people are specifically following out the system faithfully and those resulting actions are sinful. So no-one would claim the Bible is wrong when a Bible believer commits a sin as their actions are independant.

Now if my belief system requires me to lie to attack another faith system then I would question the validity of that particular faith system, as we have proven this accusation to not be based on truth but on a misrepresentation, I would caution the original poster about the source of that misrepresentation.

Truth is from God.

In Christ
Scylla

 

[Scottgun]

The reason I say that drinking and gambling is endorsed by the church is… Is it not the CHURCH that puts on the drinking and gambling based festivals on THIER property???

Correction. Your thread title is “Why is getting drunk and gambling okay?” Implying that the Church endorses drunkeness (which it does not) and gambling. Please get the two different terms drinking and drunkeness straight.

Scott

 

[Church_Militant]

Hmmm, those replies sound reasonable most certaintly. … The bible says that we shall know them by their fruits. But the fruit of the Catholic church goers -from what I can see- is perhaps a little too ripe.

And so you will follow a tradition of man rather that the Word of God and his church.

A Catholic who is wise enough to hire transport rather than drive drunk commits no sin in that respect. Are they immoral when they are drunk? If they have a good time and do not sin then why do you judge them?

… staying on the subject of drinking. Why did my devout Catholic grandparents never even THINK of touching a drink or gambling.

Their choice and without fault, but their choice none the less.

Are there different sects?

Nope

What does the pope say?

He says live holy lives and follow Christ. Christ drank.

I mean I know there is sin in the church. But for a church to direct the sin

.Wrong again… we are each responsible for our own souls. The church does not do what you have asserted.

gambling and drinking that’s were I get lost. – This just doesn’t sound very holy.

Nor does judging others and following unbiblical traditions of men. So choose you this day whom you will serve.
As for me and my house we will serve the Lord.
Pax Domiini sit semper vobiscum.

 

[Damascus]

I read this original post and I feel as if a knife got plunged into my back and twisted around. Suddenly the Church I Love so much, and my sisters and brothers in Christ are being portrayed as drunks and gamblers. While I am sure this hospital for sinners has this and other sinners in it, I am beyond offended and getting angry that someone would post something like this.

Show me any Church where there are no sinners and I will tell you that they are not human beings as members, and quite possibly a figment of someones overactive imagination.

I am done now with my 2 cents. I am unsubscribing from this venomous thread that is built on a false and hateful premise intended to upset Catholics.

Christ is Lord original poster- and when you put Christ on remember you must represent him as well.

 

[shirleytowers]

Your original post implies that drunkeness and gambling addictions are okay with Catholics anrd normal with them. It IS NOT.

The Catholic Church does NOT hold drinking or gambling festivals. What ARE you talking about??

I have never been to a Catholic fest where there was serious gambling or excessive drinking. Where in heck do YOU live??? Seriously, where is it you are talking about??

Drinking is okay. After all, at the wedding at Cana, Jesus turned the water into wine, not the wine into water. However, the Bible views drunkeness as a negative thing and cautions against it. It is a sin, according to the Church.

Gambling is not mentioned in the Bible, is it?–except for “casting lots” which is like drawing straws.

Personally, I think gambling is common in many cultures and is not bad except when done to excess, as is the case for so many things. Gambling is okay, in moderation. A little for entertainment, now and again.

Moderation is the key. Drunkeness or blowing your paycheck on gambling is bad, wrong, stupid. Addictions can be so very destructive.

 

[marci]

But it looks to me that there is nothing said to the Catholics about the dangers of drinking too much. I mean if the festivals were say some sort of outreach and you attracted people of the world to the festivals to show them Christ well that’s one thing. But making money off people getting drunk and gambling that’s another.

I just don’t understand it. But I surely would like to.

The catholic church does not say that drinking and gambling are in and of themselves sinful. What the church does say is that if you abuse these in such a way that you put them ahead of your family, work, obligations to neighbors and God.

So if your constant drinking binges cause you to miss work or otherwise cannot care for your family, for example, that is when it becomes sinful.

Another thing I would like to add is, speaking for myself, many catholics in this country are from cultures where gatherings of all kinds are accompanied by alcohol. My family is 1st generation on my father’s side (from croatia) and my mother’s family is Irish. European attitudes of gathering and drinking are more liberal than those of most american protestants, which in this country have roots in puritanism.

We tend to be boisterous, loud and somewhat intimidating people, but we are warm and loving. You cannot come to one of our family gatherings without having someone stuff plates of food in your face, or ordering you to have some homemade wine. This is the way we show love for one another. My husband comes from a baptist family who were much more reserved than we and it took him awhile to get used to us. But, now he loves the fact that we get together all the time to yell, laugh, argue, hug, sing and, yes, drink.

When the irish, italians, polish, and slavics came to this country decades ago, most were impoverished in their native lands and came here to better their lives, only to be treated with predjudice. They had a hard time of it, especially because they were catholic, so they created a culture within a culture, one that most of the decendants of these families still keep today. They may drink and gamble, but any one of them would give you the shirt off their back if you asked, they love the church, and the family life is centered around church traditions and Jesus.

 

[Mintaka]

If you think these people really have a drinking problem, I understand why you wouldn’t feel comfortable speaking to them about it at your business. (The customer is always right.) But if you are worried about it, or scandalized, you should probably speak to the local priest (or at least write to him) about these folks. In fact, it’s your Christian duty to do so as your brother’s keeper.

If they’re just occasionally very merry, I assume you wouldn’t be worrying about it. (As I’m sure that limo drivers see it all.)

 

[christ_is_lord]

Drunkeness is condemned, gambling is not and drinking is not.

Deuteronomy 14:26 And thou shalt buy with the same money whatsoever pleaseth thee, either of the herds or of sheep, wine also and strong drink, and all that thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat before the Lord thy God, and shalt feast, thou and thy house:

Proverbs 31:6 Give strong drink to them that are sad: and wine to them that are grieved in mind:

So if these things are not condemned in the Word of God, then whose man made tradition are you following that has told you that they are?
Pax tecum,​

Well said Micheal!! Your scripture references back up your point that you made surperbly. THAT is what I am looking for. Some of you are getting offended when I honestly am not seeking to offend but to understand. Some of you are clarifying some things and making reference to scripture like Micheal did… THAT I can understand…

But no one really responded to the priest getting drunk with one of his patrons. AND no responded to the drinking and gambling at festivals used for making money (and watching others get drunk) instead of bringing the lost to Christ.

So… Is getting drunk okay?? If its not then are these Catholics that get drunk sinning? I mean drunkenness can lead to lots more sin.

I have lots more questions about the Catholic Religion. I do feel a little elated about the scriptures about it being okay to drink. I never noticed those before. I have read somewhere that if one wants to be REALLY holy its best to stay away from drink… I’ll have to find the scripture reference.

Thanks for clarifying about my grandparents not drinking was because of personal choice. I always thought that it was their religious conviction. They are gone now so I can’t ask them directly.

BTW, how much drinking is considered moderate by say the Popes standards… a glass a day? A glass during celebration? During the wine at wedding - Jesus’ first miracle… weren’t all the people getting drunk?.. that’s why they ran out?

I for one, get drunk on the holy spirit. I don’t know if any of you have had this experience but when I focus on the Lord in worship I get happy drunk with no side effects. I mean I am flying high as a kite… nothing could bother me… because I’m drunk… drunk on the holy ghost.:dancing:

 

[Fidelis]

Perhaps the OP is speaking about bingo and the setting up of “beer gardens” for some parish events. If so, what others have already said applies to these as well. There is nothing objectively sinful about games of chance or drinking. The sin is in the specific individual abusing his free will to engage in ANY activity to excess. As someone pointed out, it would therefore be sinful to offer donuts after a Bible study because some gluttonous person might wolf down five of them. Should we then not offer donuts? The goods of this world are not made evil by their missuse. Objects aren’t evil: their perversion is.

For the record, here’s what the Church teaches, from the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

2290 The virtue of temperance disposes us to avoid every kind of excess: the abuse of food, alcohol, tobacco, or medicine. Those incur grave guilt who, by drunkenness or a love of speed, endanger their own and others’ safety on the road, at sea, or in the air.

2291 The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law.

2413 Games of chance (card games, etc.) or wagers are not in themselves contrary to justice. They become morally unacceptable when they deprive someone of what is necessary to provide for his needs and those of others. The passion for gambling risks becoming an enslavement. Unfair wagers and cheating at games constitute grave matter, unless the damage inflicted is so slight that the one who suffers it cannot reasonably consider it significant.

There’s what the Church teaches, for all to see. Just like the ten commandents or any other law, it is up to the individual to either obey or ignore them.

 

[Fidelis]

But no one really responded to the priest getting drunk with one of his patrons.

Several people have addressed this, including me:

What you have encounted is the perennial reality that some people practice their Faith better than others. It’s a shame that some Catholics (and Protestants) live more like pagans, but that is in spite of the Church, not because of it. A mature person never judges a worldview based on it’s worst examples, but on it’s best; those who follow it’s teachings, not those who ignore them.

AND no responded to the drinking and gambling at festivals used for making money (and watching others get drunk) instead of bringing the lost to Christ.

I responded to this in my last post.

So… Is getting drunk okay?? If its not then are these Catholics that get drunk sinning? I mean drunkenness can lead to lots more sin.

This has also been responded to. Getting drunk is NOT OK.

 

[scylla]

Of course drunkeness is sinning and leads to other sin, and if a Priest does this he is sinning. That just shows you have a Priest that sins. Nothing new, he is human and just like you and me can sin if he chooses to. Which proves absolutely nothing, but reinforces Catholic teaching.

So as we have festivals to raise money some of that is used to build up or maintain the Church, some to missionaries spread throughout the world dedicating their lives to Christ, some to maintaining the teaching that comes to us from the Apostles.

Now as for man made tradition, I would suggest that believing that drinking anything is a sin is a man-made tradition brought about by the tradition of some people who grabbed the Bible and made their own man made traditions from their interpretations of it.

Since they had no authority to interpret the Bible to their own destruction anyways, then they sinned in several ways. By setting themselves up as authorities over the Holy Word of God, and then setting themselves up as Gods by starting Christian Churches based upon their interpretation of the Bible and then starting man made traditions of condemning others who say it is ok to drink in moderation.

Moderation is subject to each person, what is gluttony to you might be a regular meal to me or vice versa. Ultimately we are encouraged to follow God and He ultimately knows when we are drinking too much and when we are eating too much, when we are gambling too much, when we are sleeping too much (sloth), when we are spending too much time on the computer ignoring our families. We all can tell also but we shouldn’t place ourselves in God’s shoes by stating that we know others are sinning unless we are certain.

One cup a day surely isn’t going to get most anyone drunk, a Bottle probably leads to sin. It is mostly common sense.

In Christ
Scylla

 

[christ_is_lord]

BTW, just to prove that some of you are erroneous in thinking that I am just trying to attack your beliefs— Here is a scripture that I am handing you on a silver platter that backs up your beliefs. I am on a quest for the truth… thanks for obliging me.

Mt:11:19: The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

So, Yes Jesus drank! He may have gotten drunk in this particular situation… I don’t know the scripture doesn’t specify accept for the “winebibber” part. Halleluia I think we are getting somewhere.

 

[christ_is_lord]

Since they had no authority to interpret the Bible to their own destruction anyways, then they sinned in several ways. By setting themselves up as authorities over the Holy Word of God, and then setting themselves up as Gods by starting Christian Churches based upon their interpretation of the Bible and then starting man made traditions of condemning others who say it is ok to drink in moderation.

---

Okay, this opens up a whole new can of worms. I can’t wait to address this but unfortunately I am out of time for right now… get back to you ASAP

 

[Lisa_Lavadores]

BTW, just to prove that some of you are erroneous in thinking that I am just trying to attack your beliefs— Here is a scripture that I am handing you on a silver platter that backs up your beliefs. I am on a quest for the truth… thanks for obliging me.

Mt:11:19: The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

So, Yes Jesus drank! He may have gotten drunk in this particular situation… I don’t know the scripture doesn’t specify accept for the “winebibber” part. Halleluia I think we are getting somewhere.

Nice gesture – but what would really help is if you would respond to the many requests in your previous thread (now closed) asking that you explain what you meant by saying that Jesus denied Mary (plus, tell where you get that info) – or acknowledge that you were wrong to make the statement.

 

[juno24]

The reason I say that drinking and gambling is endorsed by the church is… Is it not the CHURCH that puts on the drinking and gambling based festivals on THIER property???

You started this thread in attack mode, with the assumption that drunkeness is an acceptable and accepted activity in the Church (witness your thread title), and then you went on to say that the Church actually directs sinful behavior. This is a far cry from asking why parishes sell alcohol and have games of chance at their parish festivals. I am, however, very glad to see you have softened your tone over the last several posts.

Although I do not know what you mean by “drinking and gambling based festivals” (do you believe that drinking and gambling are the *reason *for the festivals??), parishes do sell beer and wine at their festivals, and they do have games of chance (raffles, bingo, etc). That is because it is not sinful to drink or to gamble, as long as one does not do so to excess. It is up to the individual to decide if he wants to partake of those activities, and it is his responsibility to do so in moderation. Drinking and gambling are not evil, but they can become sinful activities for certain people. This includes the priest.

Priests are human, and they do sin. That is why we have the sacrament of reconciliation-- to help bring people back onto the right path. That sacrament is available to all Catholics-- priests and laity.

If you don’t hear about people being admonished for sinful behavior, maybe it is because it is being done in the confessional and in the homily at Mass moreso than in the public square.

 

[mommyof4]

Hello everyone,
drinking very heavily and gambling - namely those famous Catholic festivals. Could you please explain this to me?

Why hasn’t anyone ever invited me to these “famous Catholic festival?” I wanna go - they sound like fun!!

 

[estesbob]

Hello everyone,

I did post before about Mary in the “Water Cooler” section. I wanted to post a new topic. My grandparents were raised and remained Catholic. My mother left the Catholic religion before I was born. I would love to go back to my roots as I am now a new Christian. There are a few things that bother me though.

Although my granparents would never even THINK of drinking an gambling - they were very devout, today all I see from the outside is drinking very heavily and gambling - namely those famous Catholic festivals. Could you please explain this to me?

And what Festivals might those be?

 

[Lion_of_Narnia]

This thread reminds me of the Simpsons episode where Bart and Homer start taking Catholic instruction (Bart becase the CC is “cooler” and Homer because of pancake suppers & Bingo) and Liam Neeson is doing the voice of their priest instructor. Marge of course objects, and has a dream about herself going to staid, boring Protestant Heaven (volleyball) while she looks over to see Bart & Homer in Catholic Heaven which has:

1. Mexican celebration with food, drinking, and Mariachi bands
2. Italian Celebration with food, drinking, and smooching
3. Irish celebration with drinking & brawling

which l;eads to all of Catholic Heaven doing Irish step dancing a la Riverdance

 

[mommyof4]

This thread reminds me of the Simpsons episode where Bart and Homer start taking Catholic instruction (Bart becase the CC is “cooler” and Homer because of pancake suppers & Bingo) and Liam Neeson is doing the voice of their priest instructor. Marge of course objects, and has a dream about herself going to staid, boring Protestant Heaven (volleyball) while she looks over to see Bart & Homer in Catholic Heaven which has:

1. Mexican celebration with food, drinking, and Mariachi bands
2. Italian Celebration with food, drinking, and smooching
3. Irish celebration with drinking & brawling

which l;eads to all of Catholic Heaven doing Irish step dancing a la Riverdance

That episode was hilarious! I think I choose the Catholic Heaven…

 

[estesbob]

Hmmm, those replies sound reasonable most certaintly. But this is what I see. We have a small limousine company and our best customers are drunks (they don’t want to drink and drive) every one of these drunks “happen” to be Catholic. We also have these long time family friends. The father is an alco holic and a gambler as is his wife. They always invited us to their church festivals where there was lots and lots of drinking and gambling. When I used drink before I became a Christian I had a blast at these Catholic festivals held at the Catholic churches. This family had a son that is now unable to hold down a job because he is addicted to gambling. The bible says that we shall know them by their fruits. But the fruit of the Catholic church goers -from what I can see- is perhaps a little too ripe.

I am recovering alchoholic who has , because of the grace of God, been sober 21 years . During that time I hae attended thousands of AA meetings. I suspect I have met more “drunks” in a month than you have in a lifetme. Let me assure no religion has a monopoly on drunkedness. Alchoholism is no more prevalent among Catholics than it is any other group.

As with your other thread i am sure you will disapear soon only to reappear in another thread with another “sincere” question that just happens to slime catholics. And as the loving Catholics that we are we will once again try to answer your questions knowing in our heart of hearts you dont care.