Why is getting drunk and gambling okay?

[mommyof4]

Can we agree that “purposefully getting drunk as a skunk to the point that you harm your body and disrespect your dignity as a child of God” is a grave sin?

yes.

 

[rpp]

Not to derail this thread…but I guess the same thing could be said for homosexuality… as it to is in the DSMV as a mental disorder (aka disease).

Again the logic, would GOD punish someone because of a disease? I think this should put a definite end to THAT debate. Anything that would disqualify you from the Kingdom of God/put you in Hell is obviously not a disease.

Actually, homosexuality was on the DSM-I (DSM is Diagnotic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.) There have been four (not five) versions. The one in current use is the DSM-IV. DSM-V is under consideration. Homosexuality was removed as a mental disorder in DSM-II in 1973. This link is the article that tipped the balance and got it removed as a mental disorder and considered a “normal variance”. It is chilling reading. psych.org/edu/other_res/lib_archives/archives/197308.pdf

Back to the topic.

I think the bottom line is if you have the free-will to avoid a drink (to to avoid having sex with someone of the same gender or anyone who is not your spouse) then you a culpable, when you have some tratable disease or not. Mental disorders like schizophrenia remove free will. Homosexuality and most forms of alchol and drug addiction do not remove free-will. However, I will acknowledge that drugs and alcohol can impair free-will.

The best information I have seems to indicate that same-sex attraction does not impair free-will at all. A like the heterosexual, a homosexual can choose to be celebate and chaste (yes, “celebate” and "chaste " are different).

 

[estesbob]

Actually, homosexuality was on the DSM-I (DSM is Diagnotic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.) There have been four (not five) versions. The one in current use is the DSM-IV. DSM-V is under consideration. Homosexuality was removed as a mental disorder in DSM-II in 1973. This link is the article that tipped the balance and got it removed as a mental disorder and considered a “normal variance”. It is chilling reading. psych.org/edu/other_res/lib_archives/archives/197308.pdf

Back to the topic.

I).

What they did was take a vote of those attending a convention. It passed by a plurality of those present. Now they are trying to take the next step-declaring it as malpractice if one tries to treat homosexuality as a disorder.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Hello everyone,

I did post before about Mary in the “Water Cooler” section. I wanted to post a new topic. My grandparents were raised and remained Catholic. My mother left the Catholic religion before I was born. I would love to go back to my roots as I am now a new Christian. There are a few things that bother me though.

Although my granparents would never even THINK of drinking an gambling - they were very devout, today all I see from the outside is drinking very heavily and gambling - namely those famous Catholic festivals. Could you please explain this to me?

From the Catechism:

**2413 **Games of chance (card games, etc.) or *wagers *are not in themselves contrary to justice. They become morally unacceptable when they deprive someone of what is necessary to provide for his needs and those of others. The passion for gambling risks becoming an enslavement. Unfair wagers and cheating at games constitute grave matter, unless the damage inflicted is so slight that the one who suffers it cannot reasonably consider it significant.

 

[christ_is_lord]

Secretly, I think we ALL have some thing. Some, as my mom calls it, escape mechanism… a secret sin, drinking, eating, smoking, shopping, working, football game worship, … something we ALL do to excess which takes us away from the pain of everyday life.

Pain? What pain? Well, we are like little children in a way… things just don’t go our way and it just plain hurts.

Like me… I can’t get caught up with my work no matter how hard I try I’m still overwhelmed. Or I want to have a bible study in my home and it just won’t work out. That causes me mental anguish- pain.

Or… their are a million reasons you may have different reasons… but the bottom line is that we all have pain.

Here is another pain I have: my mother has cancer. My dad left me when I was young. Pain pain pain. I’m telling you this because you to have pain also. Whether you air your dirty laundry or not you still have pain.

The bottom line is where do you go to dull the pain of daily living… do you watch too much TV? Do you drink too much? Do you work too hard? Do you get into a silly football game as if the world depended upon the outcome - I see little kids play football – What’s the big huge deal about a game? -Not that football in and of itself is a sin, nor is eating, drinking, shopping, working, watching TV… but has it become a pain killer??

We all have something to dull the pain, to give us a little push. We can rationalize virtually anything even getting drunk. But seriously where do we REALLY NEED to go? Whom do we REALLY NEED to seek when life had got us down??

— we NEED OUR MOMMIES!!-- Right?? AND who is our MOMMY is she Mary is She/He Jesus. Who is our Mommy and where is He/She? Sometimes we just need her/him to hold us tight and tell us that its going to be okay.

 

[christ_is_lord]

Oh one more thing…So your church…how do you handle members who do not liveup your standards? Do you have any weeds? Do you allow weeds? What happens when the wheat turns into a weed? What does your Church do with those folks?

---

The Average Joe Catholic (in the pew)​

well let me just say that I am a new believer. I do love the catholic cultural aspect. I don’t think that your religion is all bad that’s why I even care. you won’t catch me asking about Satan worshipers or Hindu’s. I am just not even tempted to join.

For Christian church members it depends on the church. The church where I attend is very open if you come you come if you don’t you don’t. But you are covered in prayer.

 

[teachccd]

Hmmm, those replies sound reasonable most certaintly. But this is what I see. We have a small limousine company and our best customers are drunks (they don’t want to drink and drive) every one of these drunks “happen” to be Catholic. We also have these long time family friends. The father is an alco holic and a gambler as is his wife. They always invited us to their church festivals where there was lots and lots of drinking and gambling. When I used drink before I became a Christian I had a blast at these Catholic festivals held at the Catholic churches. This family had a son that is now unable to hold down a job because he is addicted to gambling. The bible says that we shall know them by their fruits. But the fruit of the Catholic church goers -from what I can see- is perhaps a little too ripe.

… staying on the subject of drinking. Why did my devout Catholic grandparents never even THINK of touching a drink or gambling. Are there different sects? What does the pope say? I mean I know there is sin in the church. But for a church to direct the sin… gambling and drinking that’s were I get lost. – This just doesn’t sound very holy.

I don’t drink or gamble. I am a devout Catholic and for you to generalize any group is prejudicial and not a very good Christian attitude to have. I responded to you in a personal note concerning Mary and you didn’t respond back. Instead I come here to find you finding the next “thing” to bring down Catholic Christians. Remember that your newfound Christianity came from the Catholic Church. There were no " born again " Christians in the year 912. So if I seem a little abrupt it’s because you now did offend me with this post. I’ll look forward to your reply on the Blessed Mother that you first “wanted” information on. I took a lot of time but if your motive is just to bounce around then your lack of knowledge will preceed you whenever you talk to Catholic Christians. Please don’t be prejudice. It’s not nice and very un Christian-like.

P.S. No Christian in your “sect” drinks or gambles?:bowdown:

 

[teachccd]

For Christian church members it depends on the church. The church where I attend is very open if you come you come if you don’t you don’t. But you are covered in prayer.

That’s not biblical. Check out Hebrews 10:25… Wow! A Catholic that knows Scripture.

 

[McKevin]

Hello everyone,

I did post before about Mary in the “Water Cooler” section. I wanted to post a new topic. My grandparents were raised and remained Catholic. My mother left the Catholic religion before I was born. I would love to go back to my roots as I am now a new Christian. There are a few things that bother me though.

Although my granparents would never even THINK of drinking an gambling - they were very devout, today all I see from the outside is drinking very heavily and gambling - namely those famous Catholic festivals. Could you please explain this to me?

Dude,

I could see myself posting a question exactly as yours…I am a convert to the faith, being raised by a holiness preacher, and these are some of things about the Catholic community that have distracted me…but dude…go to RCIA - You will meet some of the most devout “CHRIST IS LORD” believers there!!! And eventually, and hopefully, you will come to a point of faith that is non-judgemental and recognizes that everyone is in a different stage of their faith journey…and last but not least read the Gospel of John, chapter 6. This commanded me to convert!

God bless you on your journey!

<>
McKevin

PS: I worked the beer booth all night on Saturday at my church festival last summer, and I didn’t serve anyone who was drunk. Moderation is the key!!!

 

[Church_Militant]

We all have something to dull the pain, to give us a little push. We can rationalize virtually anything even getting drunk. But seriously where do we REALLY NEED to go? Whom do we REALLY NEED to seek when life had got us down??

Prayer. Prayer and more prayer before the Blessed Sacrament. Go and watch for one hour with Him. Just listen, read your Bible, Offer whatever prayers are on your heart.

— we NEED OUR MOMMIES!!-- Right?? AND who is our MOMMY is she Mary is She/He Jesus. Who is our Mommy and where is He/She? Sometimes we just need her/him to hold us tight and tell us that its going to be okay.

This part is goofy. Who’s been teaching you?

Mary is not God and the Catholic Church has never and will never say otherwise.

Is she our Mother in the faith? Yes she is.

You talk about pain. Do you have greater pain than she did as she watched the suffereings of her only son, falsely accused and executed by His enemies? Probably not.

So…do you think she will not be willing to intercede for those who suffer?

Christ is the fount of God’s compassion and understanding made flesh
It can’t get any more real than that.

Can you suffer more than He did for your sins and mine?

Things to consider.

Oh one more thing…So your church…how do you handle members who do not liveup your standards? Do you have any weeds? Do you allow weeds? What happens when the wheat turns into a weed? What does your Church do with those folks?

Excommunication happens but always with a view towards reconcilliation through confession and absolution. Most times it is not public and other Catholics rarely are privy to other’s private business since that’s between the person, God and His church. It gets handled…

The Average Joe Catholic (in the pew) -----

I don’t even know what that means. We are all human beings and the church is a hospital for sinners, not a hotel for saints.

well let me just say that I am a new believer. I do love the catholic cultural aspect. I don’t think that your religion is all bad that’s why I even care.

Anyone who says that our most holy faith is “all bad” doesn’t know what they’re talking about. If you really want to know what Catholics believe about different things, then go to the CA online Library and just start reading the articles that interest you, then maybe have a look at the Catholic Home Study Service and pick a FREE course that interests you and get the facts for yourself.

For Christian church members it depends on the church.

Check your history. We are the original New Testament, (Full Gospel), Christian church. You have a Bible today because Catholic Monks and Nuns copied it by hand for centuries so people could hear it (Most people couldn’t read anyway at that time in history.)

The church where I attend is very open if you come you come if you don’t you don’t.

Nice… unscriptural, but nice. Ever read Hebrews 10:25? Not forsaking our assembly, as some are accustomed; but comforting one another, and so much the more as you see the day approaching.

What did Jesus found and leave for us? Not the Bible, because He didn’t pen any of it, and didn’t tell anyone else to do so. He founded and left the Church. Why would anyone in their right Christian mind wanna miss that?

But you are covered in prayer.

Another obscure phrase…
Prayer is important, but it does not replace worship and full, active, conscious, and joyful participation at Mass.
Pax tecum.

 

[Lance]

Hello everyone,

I did post before about Mary in the “Water Cooler” section. I wanted to post a new topic. My grandparents were raised and remained Catholic. My mother left the Catholic religion before I was born. I would love to go back to my roots as I am now a new Christian. There are a few things that bother me though.

Although my granparents would never even THINK of drinking an gambling - they were very devout, today all I see from the outside is drinking very heavily and gambling - namely those famous Catholic festivals. Could you please explain this to me?

It is not a sin to have a drink, it is a sin to get drunk. It is not a sin to gamble but it is a sin to deprive either your family or others of things they need just so you can gamble. IMO if you gamble and throw $5 in the collection basket on Sunday because that’s all you can afford, that’s a sin.

 

[christ_is_lord]

Just listen, read your Bible, Offer whatever prayers are on your heart.

Is she our Mother in the faith? Yes she is.

So…do you think she will not be willing to intercede for those who suffer?

What I think is not the point is it? Who is the one God says through his written word will intercede?

Christ is the fount of God’s compassion and understanding made flesh
It can’t get any more real than that.

True.

Check your history. We are the original New Testament, (Full Gospel), Christian church. You have a Bible today because Catholic Monks and Nuns copied it by hand for centuries so people could hear it (Most people couldn’t read anyway at that time in history.)…
What did Jesus found and leave for us? Not the Bible, because He didn’t pen any of it, and didn’t tell anyone else to do so.

How do you know He didn’t tell anyone else to pen it? He can still speak just as Mary can pray and intercessory prayer. He spoke to the apostle Paul didn’t He? And He speaks to me. Do you ever hear Him speak to you?

He founded and left the Church. Why would anyone in their right Christian mind wanna miss that?
Not me.

Prayer is important, but it does not replace worship and full, active, conscious, and joyful participation at Mass.

I whole heartedly agree. As long as the participants are ACTUALLY worshipping Him. I’m sure some do more than others.

Pax tecum.

 

[juno24]

Chris-Is-Lord,

Please use the quote functions when you reply to a post. I sent you a Private Message, but you may not have read it yet. There are several ways to quote a post-- the easiest being to simply click on the “quote” button at the bottom right of the post to which you are replying.

It makes it very difficult to follow you and to distinguish your answer from the post you are replying to when you answer the way you do now.

 

[Stephen_C]

Me. “Oh one more thing…So your church…how do you handle members who do not liveup your standards? Do you have any weeds? Do you allow weeds? What happens when the wheat turns into a weed? What does your Church do with those folks?”
CM reply 1. Things to consider.Excommunication happens but always with a view towards reconcilliation through confession and absolution. Most times it is not public and other Catholics rarely are privy to other’s private business since that’s between the person, God and His church. It gets handled.

My Siig"The Average Joe Catholic (in the pew)"
CM reply 2. I don’t even know what that means. We are all human beings and the church is a hospital for sinners, not a hotel for saints.

1. This was the question I asked the OP in post 13.
2. This is my sig. BTW, I do feel I am the avg. Joe Catholic…nothing wrong with that. right?
   The OP did not quote me correctly I guess.

 

[estesbob]

Just listen, read your Bible, Offer whatever prayers are on your heart.

Is she our Mother in the faith? Yes she is.

So…do you think she will not be willing to intercede for those who suffer?

What I think is not the point is it? Who is the one God says through his written word will intercede?

Christ is the fount of God’s compassion and understanding made flesh
It can’t get any more real than that.

True.

Check your history. We are the original New Testament, (Full Gospel), Christian church. You have a Bible today because Catholic Monks and Nuns copied it by hand for centuries so people could hear it (Most people couldn’t read anyway at that time in history.)…
What did Jesus found and leave for us? Not the Bible, because He didn’t pen any of it, and didn’t tell anyone else to do so.

How do you know He didn’t tell anyone else to pen it? He can still speak just as Mary can pray and intercessory prayer. He spoke to the apostle Paul didn’t He? And He speaks to me. Do you ever hear Him speak to you?

He founded and left the Church. Why would anyone in their right Christian mind wanna miss that?
Not me.

Prayer is important, but it does not replace worship and full, active, conscious, and joyful participation at Mass.

I whole heartedly agree. As long as the participants are ACTUALLY worshipping Him. I’m sure some do more than others.

Pax tecum.

I have given up reading your posts. Since you are unable or unwiiling to use the quote function your posts are impossble to follow.

 

[Lisa_Lavadores]

Quoted from Church Militant: So…do you think she will not be willing to intercede for those who suffer?

Replied to by christ is lord: What I think is not the point is it? Who is the one God says through his written word will intercede?

Before we start talking at cross purposes, please know that when Catholics say that Mary intercedes, we mean that she prays for us. I assume that you do not take the position that the Written Word does not allow us to pray for one another; therefore, there is nothing unbiblical about Mary’s intercession. If you still think there is, then you must believe that you are not allowed to pray for someone else (possibly, even for yourself!) or ask someone else to pray for you.

Finally, how many times do you have to be asked to either back up your claim in your previous (now closed) post that Jesus denied Mary? Please back it up with Scripture or admit that you made an error. Until you do one or the other, it will be extremely difficult to believe you are sincere.

 

[rpp]

Oh one more thing…So your church…how do you handle members who do not liveup your standards? Do you have any weeds? Do you allow weeds? What happens when the wheat turns into a weed? What does your Church do with those folks?

For most people these is the Sacrament of Confession and Pennance, (also known as “Reconciliation”.) However, for a confession to be valid and sins forgiven, the pennitant must confess all serious sins since their last confession and have the sincere desire to not sin again. More than that, if it is a habitual sin, that person **must take positive action to change **so they break the sinful habit or pattern (known as a “firm purpose of amendment”).

The idea that a Catholic can sin then just go to Confession and everything is cool is wildly inaccurate. A Catholic who approches the Confessional with this attitude commits the grave sin of making an improper confession.

If the sin is grave, public, and potentially damaging the many faithful, the person may be excommunicated. That usually means they have to deal with their bishop and make some type of approriate contrition and publicly change their ways.

A very few sins are so bad that committing them results in automatic excommunication. Participating in a procurred abortion is an example of a grave sin that results in automatc excommunication.

Excommunication is supposed to be a wake-up call. The Church cannot judge the heart of any person. It can tell them their behavior is wrong, evern seriously or extremelly wrong. But it cannot judge them.

So the heretic, the little guy who makes insincere confessions, the secular person who rejects all things Christian, the serial rapist who was “saved” when he was 13, the Moslem who says convert or die while beating his wife, the Baptists Pastor who promotes good morality and faith in God, the faithful Baptist layman who spends his energy railing against the evils of Catholics, the faithful retired couple who pray the Rosary everyday, the anonymous priest or nun, pastor or faithful lay-person who help thousands with food, shelter and spiritual guidence and no one ever thanks them…

All these people, the Church says, will face God’s perfect and just judgment.

 

[Truthstalker]

Hello everyone,

I did post before about Mary in the “Water Cooler” section. I wanted to post a new topic. My grandparents were raised and remained Catholic. My mother left the Catholic religion before I was born. I would love to go back to my roots as I am now a new Christian. There are a few things that bother me though.

Although my granparents would never even THINK of drinking an gambling - they were very devout, today all I see from the outside is drinking very heavily and gambling - namely those famous Catholic festivals. Could you please explain this to me?

Hey, I’ll explain it to you after you tell me whether you’ve stopped beating your wife. Same kind of question.

 

[mercygate]

Getting drunk willfully is a mortal sin. Period. It’s in the Catechism.

Think of “all that gambling” at festivals as a means of fund raising – people aren’t really “gambling” they are contributing, with a little ‘sweetener’ in the possibility of coming home with something in their pockets.

That said, I was never more relieved than when my parish cancelled bingo night. It sure gives the wrong impression.