Why is getting drunk and gambling okay?

[rpp]

Premise 1.
Getting drunk is a very grave sin.

Gambling beyond incidental amounts of money is a grave sin.

There are many other grave sins.

Premise 2.
Catholic are human.

Premise 3.
All humans sin.
Not all humans commit the same sins.

Conclusion.
All Catholics commit sin.
Not all Catholic commit the sin of drunkeness or excessive gambling.
Likleyhood of lurking? High.

 

[carol_marie]

I see your point about the protestants… we call those people secular Christians…** they aren’t really followers of Christ in their hearts**…

How cool that your church can actually read people’s hearts… and here I thought I that was something only God could do?

OP ~ even IF some Priests get drunk with parish members… what does that prove… other than Priests are human who sin? There are some places in the South where the Protestant Christian Churches were used to hold Klan meetings. The majority of the church members were KKK members … burning crosses at night. So what? Does that mean that all Protestant Christians were racist? Nope. It means that some were- and guaranteed - just like in the Catholic Church, all were sinners in need of a Savior.

 

[Orionthehunter]

Premise 1.
Getting drunk is a very grave sin.
.

Having or aiding and abortion is a very grave sin. Stealing from the poor is a very grave sin. Adultery is a very grave sin. Blasphemy is a very grave sin. Watching football with friends at your home, getting caught up in the moment and eating and drinking too much is not a very grave sin. It is stupid for which one will pay the next day but not a very grave sin.

 

[carol_marie]

Having or aiding and abortion is a very grave sin. Stealing from the poor is a very grave sin. Adultery is a very grave sin. Blasphemy is a very grave sin. Watching football with friends at your home, getting caught up in the moment and eating and drinking too much is not a very grave sin. It is stupid for which one will pay the next day but not a very grave sin.

Do you make a distinction between being a drunk and getting drunk? The Bible says that drunkards will not inherit the Kingdom.

"Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. "

just curious…

 

[Orionthehunter]

Do you make a distinction between being a drunk and getting drunk? The Bible says that drunkards will not inherit the Kingdom.

"Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. "

just curious…

The context of the verse is about placing something else above God.

 

[rpp]

The context of the verse is about placing something else above God.

Carol Marie’s interpretation **is **consistant with the Catechism. Here is the reference. I have no idea why you might think this has anything to do about placing something above God. The context does not support that interpretation. Take a look at the entire chapter.
nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/galatians/galatians5.htm

And the Catechism’s interpretation of the passage.

1852 There are a great many kinds of sins. Scripture provides several lists of them. The Letter to the Galatians contrasts the works of the flesh with the fruit of the Spirit: “Now the works of the flesh are plain: fornication, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the Kingdom of God.” 127

1853 Sins can be distinguished according to their objects, as can every human act; or according to the virtues they oppose, by excess or defect; or according to the commandments they violate. They can also be classed according to whether they concern God, neighbor, or oneself; they can be divided into spiritual and carnal sins, or again as sins in thought, word, deed, or omission. The root of sin is in the heart of man, in his free will, according to the teaching of the Lord: “For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, fornication, theft, false witness, slander. These are what defile a man.” 128 But in the heart also resides charity, the source of the good and pure works, which sin wounds.

Additional, there are warnings about the abuse of alcohol.

2290 The virtue of temperance disposes us to avoid every kind of excess: the abuse of food, alcohol, tobacco, or medicine. Those incur grave guilt who, by drunkenness or a love of speed, endanger their own and others’ safety on the road, at sea, or in the air.

2291 The use of drugs inflicts very grave damage on human health and life. Their use, except on strictly therapeutic grounds, is a grave offense. Clandestine production of and trafficking in drugs are scandalous practices. They constitute direct co-operation in evil, since they encourage people to practices gravely contrary to the moral law.

 

[Orionthehunter]

Carol Marie’s interpretation **is **consistant with the Catechism. Here is the reference. I have no idea why you might think this has anything to do about placing something above God. The context does not support that interpretation. Take a look at the entire chapter.
nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/galatians/galatians5.htm

And the Catechism’s interpretation of the passage.

Additional, there are warnings about the abuse of alcohol.

I read what you cited and I don’t agree with your interpretation. The context is about sins of the flesh and the context of them being pursued in conflict with God which is what makes them grave.

 

[malachi_a_serva]

alcoholism is a disease that needs to be addressed.

I do not want to offend anyone…just offer something to ponder…

1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

Does GOD really want us to avoid someone with a disease?

1 Corinthians 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Would GOD disallow someone with a disease the kingdom of GOD?

Or would he…if it were a choice, a way of living…a sin that one does not turn away from?

Just a comment and please I mean no disrespect to anyone diagnosed as an alcoholic.

 

[Mintaka]

Can we agree that “purposefully getting drunk as a skunk to the point that you harm your body and disrespect your dignity as a child of God” is a grave sin?

 

[rpp]

I read what you cited and I don’t agree with your interpretation. The context is about sins of the flesh and the context of them being pursued in conflict with God which is what makes them grave.

I made no interpretation. I provided the Catholic Church’s interpretation. You are as free to disagree with the Church’s interpretation as you are to choose to believe anything.

It is not possible to read the passage quoted, the other similar passages quoted by malachi_a_serva and, most importantly, the clear interpretation in the Catechism and come to the conclusion that drunkeness is morally okay or even neutral. To try to do so requires either ignoring or distorting these passages. This is particularly true as the section quoted from the Catechims is from the definition of Sin.

If your conscience tells you that it is cool with God tio get drunk then fine. However, I would contend that a mistake is being made. WQe have provided citations. Are you able to provide citations which claim the drunkennes is morally okay or neutral?

 

[rpp]

Can we agree that “purposefully getting drunk as a skunk to the point that you harm your body and disrespect your dignity as a child of God” is a grave sin?

Not only do I agree with that, that also puts you in agreement with Catholic Morla teachings.

 

[Lisa_Lavadores]

I do not want to offend anyone…just offer something to ponder…

1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

Does GOD really want us to avoid someone with a disease?

1 Corinthians 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Would GOD disallow someone with a disease the kingdom of GOD?

Or would he…if it were a choice, a way of living…a sin that one does not turn away from?

Just a comment and please I mean no disrespect to anyone diagnosed as an alcoholic.

I have a great respect for AA and know many who have been helped – but I, too, cringe at the “disease” term. However, using the term seems to help in the recovery process for some reason. No recovered/recovering alcoholic that I know of has ever used the disease idea as an excuse for drinking (after all, the whole point of AA is that you stop) – more as an explanation of why the alcoholic seems to react differently to alcohol than does the Average Joe.

I wish I could remember where I heard the following statement (probably badly quoted), but it was some Catholic source: “For the alcoholic, the second drink is not a sin, but the first drink is.” (Kind of ironic, since for the Average Joe, the first drink is not a sin but, while not the second, there is one down the line that is).

 

[estesbob]

I have a great respect for AA and know many who have been helped – but I, too, cringe at the “disease” term. However, using the term seems to help in the recovery process for some reason. No recovered/recovering alcoholic that I know of has ever used the disease idea as an excuse for drinking (after all, the whole point of AA is that you stop) – more as an explanation of why the alcoholic seems to react differently to alcohol than does the Average Joe.

I wish I could remember where I heard the following statement (probably badly quoted), but it was some Catholic source: “For the alcoholic, the second drink is not a sin, but the first drink is.” (Kind of ironic, since for the Average Joe, the first drink is not a sin but, while not the second, there is one down the line that is).

I dont know what the cause of alchoholism is-I just know I have it. The idea that it is a disease should be used as an explanation, not an excuse.

 

[rpp]

I dont know what the cause of alchoholism is-I just know I have it. **The idea that it is a disease should be used as an explanation, *not ***an excuse.

I am fortunate enough not to have this particular weakness. (Don’t worry, I have plenty others! )

I have great respect for those who have succeeded in holding back this temptation for long periods of time.

 

[malachi_a_serva]

I dont know what the cause of alchoholism is-I just know I have it. The idea that it is a disease should be used as an explanation, not an excuse.

Not to derail this thread…but I guess the same thing could be said for homosexuality… as it to is in the DSMV as a mental disorder (aka disease).

Again the logic, would GOD punish someone because of a disease? I think this should put a definite end to THAT debate. Anything that would disqualify you from the Kingdom of God/put you in Hell is obviously not a disease.

 

[malachi_a_serva]

I dont know what the cause of alchoholism is-I just know I have it.

Our sin nature passed down from Adam.

 

[estesbob]

Not to derail this thread…but I guess the same thing could be said for homosexuality… as it to is in the DSMV as a mental disorder (aka disease).

Again the logic, would GOD punish someone because of a disease? I think this should put a definite end to THAT debate. Anything that would disqualify you from the Kingdom of God/put you in Hell is obviously not a disease.

Its not the disorder that is the sin. It is the behavior.

 

[malachi_a_serva]

Its not the disorder that is the sin. It is the behavior.

Correct. So to have the tendencies/desires is not sinful; but acting on them is. I agree, nicely clarified.

 

[estesbob]

I am fortunate enough not to have this particular weakness. (Don’t worry, I have plenty others! )

I have great respect for those who have succeeded in holding back this temptation for long periods of time.

Not to put to fine a point on this but alchoholism is NOT a weakness. It is just something I have and through the grace of God no longer act on.

 

[malachi_a_serva]

through the grace of God no longer act on.

Praise GOD. All the glory to him. way to go estesbob.