Why is it better to be Catholic?

[nogames]

nogames:

It is amazing the lengths that people will go to “prove” the existence of purgatory. You are quoting St. Paul, who isn’t discussing anything having to do with purifying us, and then you quote a verse from a non-inspired source that likewise has nothing at all to do with the Catholic teaching of purgation.

Can you tell us what is Catholic teaching on purgatory that you deny here? What is it? I like to know what you object to.

Thanks.

I object to the teaching of purgatory because:

1. There is no need for it according to Scripture. (Heb. 10:1-14)
2. There is absolutely no evidence that the doctrine of purgatory was known by the apostles.
3. Because of number one (above) the teaching of purgatory is just mocking the perfect sacrifice of Jesus as if it were insufficient.

 

[steve-b]

I’m curious about why so many people here seem convinced that the Catholic Church is a much better choice than any protestant church.

Re: the opening question

I realize I’m coming in late to the discussion. If the following has been asked and answered before, then just ignore.

The answer to the opening question, requires proof properly referenced, not one’s personal opinion… agreed? After all, if it’s true, that it is better to be Catholic, then there better be good evidence to prove it… true?

1. What evidence will convince you?
2. Please list a few requirements, most important at the top.\ of the list

nogames:

I realize that these kinds of choices can be (for lots of people) mostly subjective, but is there an objectively good reason to choose the Catholic Church over any of the various protestant churches?

That question needs to be asked differently. What proof(s) do YOU need? List what you would need answered

 

[nogames]

nogames:

I’m curious about why so many people here seem convinced that the Catholic Church is a much better choice than any protestant church.

Re: the opening question

I realize I’m coming in late to the discussion. If the following has been asked and answered before, then just ignore.

The answer to the opening question, requires proof properly referenced, not one’s personal opinion… agreed? After all, if it’s true, that it is better to be Catholic, then there better be good evidence to prove it… true?

1. What evidence will convince you?
2. Please list a few requirements, most important at the top.\ of the list

nogames:

I realize that these kinds of choices can be (for lots of people) mostly subjective, but is there an objectively good reason to choose the Catholic Church over any of the various protestant churches?

That question needs to be asked differently. What proof(s) do YOU need? List what you would need answered

I’m not searching for “proofs” by which to verify a particular sect or a religion. I don’t care that much about religion. I believe that we are justified by grace, through the gift of faith (in Jesus). Nothing else matters as much to me as this. Jesus said, “I am the WAY.”

 

[steve-b]

Reuben_J:

nogames:

It is amazing the lengths that people will go to “prove” the existence of purgatory. You are quoting St. Paul, who isn’t discussing anything having to do with purifying us, and then you quote a verse from a non-inspired source that likewise has nothing at all to do with the Catholic teaching of purgation.

Can you tell us what is Catholic teaching on purgatory that you deny here? What is it? I like to know what you object to.

Thanks.

I object to the teaching of purgatory because:

1. There is no need for it according to Scripture. (Heb. 10:1-14)

Heb 10:1-14 doesn’t prove your point

nogames:

1. There is absolutely no evidence that the doctrine of purgatory was known by the apostles.

While the word purgatory is NOT mentioned the reality of Purgatory IS explained.

OTHERWISE

Why did Paul describe this process for one who is saved BUT happens, on the Day one dies , and before one enters heaven,

nogames:

1. Because of number one (above) the teaching of purgatory is just mocking the perfect sacrifice of Jesus as if it were insufficient.

That’s incorrect. Purgatory is a purification process, since nothing unclean will enter heaven.

BTW, Jesus knew who was in the book of life (ergo who was NOT in the book as well,) before everything that is was created.

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

nogames:

I’m curious about why so many people here seem convinced that the Catholic Church is a much better choice than any protestant church.

Re: the opening question

I realize I’m coming in late to the discussion. If the following has been asked and answered before, then just ignore.

The answer to the opening question, requires proof properly referenced, not one’s personal opinion… agreed? After all, if it’s true, that it is better to be Catholic, then there better be good evidence to prove it… true?

1. What evidence will convince you?
2. Please list a few requirements, most important at the top.\ of the list

nogames:

I realize that these kinds of choices can be (for lots of people) mostly subjective, but is there an objectively good reason to choose the Catholic Church over any of the various protestant churches?

That question needs to be asked differently. What proof(s) do YOU need? List what you would need answered

I’m not searching for “proofs” by which to verify a particular sect or a religion. I don’t care that much about religion. I believe that we are justified by grace, through the gift of faith (in Jesus). Nothing else matters as much to me as this. Jesus said, "I am the WAY."

Who told you that the underlined text is true? And why do you believe it? Did ANYBODY show you proof that what you said is even true? Where is that proof?

 

[nogames]

nogames:

steve-b:

nogames:

I’m curious about why so many people here seem convinced that the Catholic Church is a much better choice than any protestant church.

Re: the opening question

I realize I’m coming in late to the discussion. If the following has been asked and answered before, then just ignore.

The answer to the opening question, requires proof properly referenced, not one’s personal opinion… agreed? After all, if it’s true, that it is better to be Catholic, then there better be good evidence to prove it… true?

1. What evidence will convince you?
2. Please list a few requirements, most important at the top.\ of the list

nogames:

I realize that these kinds of choices can be (for lots of people) mostly subjective, but is there an objectively good reason to choose the Catholic Church over any of the various protestant churches?

That question needs to be asked differently. What proof(s) do YOU need? List what you would need answered

I’m not searching for “proofs” by which to verify a particular sect or a religion. I don’t care that much about religion. I believe that we are justified by grace, through the gift of faith (in Jesus). Nothing else matters as much to me as this. Jesus said, "I am the WAY."

Who told you that the underlined text is true? And why do you believe it? Did ANYBODY show you proof that what you said is even true? Where is that proof?

It is my belief that it is the Holy Spirit that caused me to believe the truth of Scripture and to trust in Jesus for my salvation. What need is there for faith if I have absolute certainty (proof)?

 

[nogames]

Heb 10:1-14 doesn’t prove your point

Heb. 10:1-14
The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. 2 Otherwise, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. 3 But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins. 4 It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

5 Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:

“Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
but a body you prepared for me;
6
with burnt offerings and sin offerings
you were not pleased.
7
Then I said, ‘Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll—
I have come to do your will, my God.’”[a]

8 First he said, “Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them”—though they were offered in accordance with the law. 9 Then he said, “Here I am, I have come to do your will.” He sets aside the first to establish the second. 10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool. 14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

As the passage says, the old covenant was imperfect; thus it didn’t perfect anyone. The new covenant is superior to the old one because the sacrifice of Jesus is perfect, and His people are made perfect forever by the sacrifice of Christ.

 

[nogames]

While the word purgatory is NOT mentioned the reality of Purgatory IS explained.

OTHERWISE

Why did Paul describe this process for one who is saved BUT happens, on the Day one dies , and before one enters heaven,

That’s incorrect. Purgatory is a purification process, since nothing unclean will enter heaven.

I agree that nothing unclean will enter heaven, but your doctrine mocks the perfect sacrifice of Jesus, who gave Himself for the purification and the salvation of His people…as Heb. 10:1-14 tells us. In the passage from 1 Cor. 3:10-15, Paul isn’t talking about a purification process, and the idea that wood and straw are purified by burning in a fire is laughably absurd.

 

[Pup7]

Reuben_J:

nogames:

It is amazing the lengths that people will go to “prove” the existence of purgatory. You are quoting St. Paul, who isn’t discussing anything having to do with purifying us, and then you quote a verse from a non-inspired source that likewise has nothing at all to do with the Catholic teaching of purgation.

Can you tell us what is Catholic teaching on purgatory that you deny here? What is it? I like to know what you object to.

Thanks.

I object to the teaching of purgatory because:

1. There is no need for it according to Scripture. (Heb. 10:1-14)
2. There is absolutely no evidence that the doctrine of purgatory was known by the apostles.
3. Because of number one (above) the teaching of purgatory is just mocking the perfect sacrifice of Jesus as if it were insufficient.

Please tell me you don’t believe in the Rapture. :crossed_fingers:t3:

Not a smart/cutesy statement.

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

Heb 10:1-14 doesn’t prove your point

Heb. 10:1-14

[snip for space]

11 Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool. 14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

As the passage says, the old covenant was imperfect; thus it didn’t perfect anyone. The new covenant is superior to the old one because the sacrifice of Jesus is perfect, and His people are made perfect forever by the sacrifice of Christ.

Jesus said
Do this ποιεῖτε in remembrance of me.” 20 And likewise the cup after supper, saying, “This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood. (as in a sacrifice instituting the NT)

Do [ ποιεῖτε, ] = ordain, make, manufacture, cause, produce, construct, change one thing into another,

They (the apostles) are to Do exactly what JESUS DID here. That is to actually Change bread and wine into His body and blood. Not a symbol, but the actual body and blood of Jesus. And in this action and those words, Jesus ordained His apostles to do what He did. And it is to continue.

Jesus gave authority to His apostles here,with the words to DO what He did. Without this authority they could NOT do this or anything supernatural…

And in Jesus own words when He ordained His apostles,

“Do this in memory of me”

Without this authority they could NOT do this or anything supernatural…

 

[deMontfort]

Oh we’ve had some Dispensationalists on here too lol

 

[rose321]

Hi rondirect, I’d be happy to explain what I mean.

Respectfully thank you for explaining. Peace

 

[rose321]

As the passage says, the old covenant was imperfect;

Respectfully opinion only. Pondering maybe the Old Covenant was not imperfect, but human beings were imperfect?
Stiff neck people our Heavenly Father calls us? Written told we have harden hearts of stone?
Passages,biblical verses in what is written seem to say the opposite do they not?

The Royal Ten Commandments>>are not imperfect our they? Thou shall not?

Sermon on the Mount is not imperfect are they?

But there will be a renewed Covenant, Jeremiah 31:31-35, has this prophecy come to pass yet?

Wrote his Torah Laws first on stone tablets >>>this time he will be writing his Torah Laws>> on our hearts of flesh?

All >>>will >>know >>me>>> I Will>>Will need no one to teach you, I Will teach you, is this not written?

Circumcise>>write his Torah Laws>>>this time not on stone tables, but will write his Torah Laws upon our hearts of flesh, we >>all>> will >>>know>>> him and all, will live his Torah Laws >>>>without even thinking about them?

Peace

 

[MichaelP3]

Well I have said time and again and it still seems to be the case that Catholics and non-Catholics do not have the same view on faith. EVERYTHING boils down to faith in one way or circular here and there way.

Ps. For everyone else, please just read “many/some” Catholics and “many/some” non-Catholics if you feel like adressing that issue.

 

[Reuben_J]

Reuben_J:

It is good for you to explain what “the Way” is, which you mentioned to support your assertion and which you are asked to explain. Do you know who these people were and what they believe? Who were they? When did they exist? Can you provide maybe some source to back your claim?

If you are willing to consider Scripture as a reliable source, here are a few references to “The Way”.

Acts 9:2 and asked him for letters to the synagogues at Damascus, so that if he found any belonging to the Way, men or women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem.
Acts 19:9 But when some became stubborn and continued in unbelief, speaking evil of the Way before the congregation, he withdrew from them and took the disciples with him, reasoning daily in the hall of Tyrannus.
Acts 19:23 About that time there arose no little disturbance concerning the Way.
Acts 24:14 But this I confess to you, that according to the Way, which they call a sect, I worship the God of our fathers, believing everything laid down by the Law and written in the Prophets,
Acts 24:22 But Felix, having a rather accurate knowledge of the Way, put them off, saying, “When Lysias the tribune comes down, I will decide your case.”

I see. You can google ‘the Way’ and you got all those verses, probably in Biblegateway. There is not pretty much information that you can get from those verses. You were saying specific belief or unbelief that they had.

You have not answered most of my questions. I am just trying to have you demonstrating your statement on solid ground rather than just saying, which is more of an opinion.

 

[Reuben_J]

Reuben_J:

nogames:

It is amazing the lengths that people will go to “prove” the existence of purgatory. You are quoting St. Paul, who isn’t discussing anything having to do with purifying us, and then you quote a verse from a non-inspired source that likewise has nothing at all to do with the Catholic teaching of purgation.

Can you tell us what is Catholic teaching on purgatory that you deny here? What is it? I like to know what you object to.

Thanks.

I object to the teaching of purgatory because:

1. There is no need for it according to Scripture. (Heb. 10:1-14)
2. There is absolutely no evidence that the doctrine of purgatory was known by the apostles.
3. Because of number one (above) the teaching of purgatory is just mocking the perfect sacrifice of Jesus as if it were insufficient.

You have not asnwered my questions - Can you tell us what is Catholic teaching on purgatory that you deny here? What is it?

Without answering that and not having the correct understanding of the definition, your post does not deal with the subject and therefore wrong on all account.

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

As the passage says, the old covenant was imperfect;

Respectfully opinion only. Pondering maybe the Old Covenant was not imperfect, but human beings were imperfect?

What you’re responding to is what @nogames wrote, not me.

 

[steve-b]

It is my belief that it is the Holy Spirit that caused me to believe the truth of Scripture and to trust in Jesus for my salvation. What need is there for faith if I have absolute certainty (proof)?

Belief / believe = faith
you say you have certainty in scripture. Where did you get scripture from? How do you know that the books that claim to be scripture are actually scripture and proof for what is claimed in them?

 

[nogames]

Belief / believe = faith
you say you have certainty in scripture. Where did you get scripture from? How do you know that the books that claim to be scripture are actually scripture and proof for what is claimed in them?

Hi steve-b, I have no certainty or proof of anything. You are searching for proofs to support what you have already chosen to believe. You have probably become very skilled at asking just the right questions to those who disagree with you. When your opponent cannot provide an answer that is sufficiently convincing to you, it will be taken as evidence for their error.

God doesn’t owe me any proof that He exists, the proof that the bible is truly inspired, or that one particular church is the “correct” one. I believe what the bible says only by the grace of God. All the stuff that you are bringing up are man-centered (as opposed to Christ-centered), and they are huge distractions from the good news about who Jesus is, and what He did to save His people from hell.

You might object, and tell me that your faith in “The Church” is not a substitute for your faith in Jesus. You would be wrong. Every tree is known by its fruit, and those who are convinced that Rome is the way tend to talk about what is so great about Rome. Jesus said, I am the Way."

 

[theCardinalbird]

The reason why I think it’s best to be Catholic, is because the church, as Saint Paul says: in Christ we, though many, form one body, and each member belongs to all the others.

Also, the Bible does speak of the Church as:

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I would NOT choose an ideology that says Christ didn’t make a Church that is supposed to help watch over the faithful. There is but one Church. Is the Church not the bride (singular) of Christ?

Ephesians 5:25-27

25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing[a] her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.

There is no problem in stressing the importance of unity in the Church. Though some would rather overlook the call to be one body in Christ.