Why is Jesus never on the cross in a Protestant church?

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It is not continual. Mass and the Eucharist make us present to that one sacrifice. Learn first, then disagree if you must.

Christ’s peace.
CCC:
"The sacrifice of Christ and the sacrifice of the Eucharist are one single sacrifice: "The victim is one and the same: the same now offers through the ministry of priests, who then offered Himself on the cross; only the manner of offering is different. “And since in this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar on the cross is contained and is offered in an unbloody manner…this sacrifice is truly propitiatory.”
 
What is more, the really important bits of hisorty, say like the Bible, histories of the Roman Empire and even KiRiShiTen History I read in the ORIGINAL LANGUAGES.

Protestant says “We can’t find Purgatory in the Bible”
I say “That is because you are reading it in ENGLISH and a pretty bad translation of it at that”
That’s awesome and very impressive that you can read the original languages but at the end of the day, it’s not all that important. I am sure you agree that your knowledge is probably not on par with the scholars who put together the ESV, NASB, RSV, etc.

Which brings me to my next point, what English translation is a “pretty bad translation at that”? Surely you don’t think the ESV or NASB are poorly translated?
 
CCC:
"The sacrifice of Christ and the sacrifice of the Eucharist are one single sacrifice: "The victim is one and the same: the same now offers through the ministry of priests, who then offered Himself on the cross; only the manner of offering is different. “And since in this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar on the cross is contained and is offered in an unbloody manner…this sacrifice is truly propitiatory.”
According to Catholic theology it’s the same sacrifice re-presented but not re-sacrificed. Calvary was a bloody sacrifice, obviously what is supposed to occur on Catholic altars is not a bloody sacrifice.
 
This isn’t a cross bashing thread, but a crucifix elevating thread.
Not according to the original question by the O.P.: “Why is Jesus never on the cross in a Protestant church?” That question has been adequately answered here by Protestants.
I have and use crosses as do pretty much all Catholics.
You “use” crosses? Elaborate.
We don’t have to bash The Cross to elevate The Crucifix.
Certainly not, only Protestants.
Understand?
Do you?
 
According to Catholic theology it’s the same sacrifice re-presented but not re-sacrificed. Calvary was a bloody sacrifice, obviously what is supposed to occur on Catholic altars is not a bloody sacrifice.
I never said “re-sacrificed.” I just quoted Catholic theology: “The sacrifice of Christ and the sacrifice of the Eucharist are one single sacrifice.” If it is “one single sacrifice” then it is one continual sacrifice only in a different manner.

And if you follow the thread back the person made the assertion that it is Christ’s glorified body that is being sacrificed in the Eucharist. It is that which I took issue with. He was physically raised to an indestructible life, so how could His glorified body be (theoretically) sacrificed in the Eucharist? How can He be in both the body of His humiliation and the body of His glorification at the same time? It is a material body, not a spirit body.
 
According to Catholic theology it’s the same sacrifice re-presented but not re-sacrificed. Calvary was a bloody sacrifice, obviously what is supposed to occur on Catholic altars is not a bloody sacrifice.
It is a bloody sacrifice, at my parish it takes five cups to collect all of the blood.
 
A Protestant friend of mine says that the crucifix “glorifies” the killing of Christ.

I obviously disagree.
 
This isn’t a cross bashing thread, but a crucifix elevating thread. I have and use crosses as do pretty much all Catholics.

We don’t have to bash The Cross to elevate The Crucifix.

Understand?

🙂
Aww you don’t have to but some people here did anyhow. 😛
 
You know I can’t take you seriously, Claudius? You guarantee with 100 percent confidence something you’ve never seen.Sure, and next you’re going to tell me you’re over nineteen hundred years old.So then tell me, what’s the Greek word for purgatory and show me where that Greek word is used in Scripture.And yet, no one has ever been able to find this theoretical, “original,” Aramaic gospel account of Matthew. But you found it and read it fluently. No doubt you must be the greatest magician in the world as well as the greatest scholar. And of course you can guarantee me this one hundred percent.Brilliant deduction there, Claud.My people? Do you mean put Him back on the cross? He is risen, you know.No doubt.This makes “perfect” sense how? And of course you have original pictures of Jesus and the saints so your statues are made accurately, according to the "original."And you can guarantee me this one hundred percent? Right?Then it must be based on your impeccable reading of the original Hebrew. Can you show me where in your Hebrew Scriptures it talks about keeping a Sunday Sabbath and on that Sunday Sabbath you’re not suppose to “rest” but worship?In which original language did you read this?I didn’t know monks could excommunicate the Pope. Where is this in canon Law? Is it in Latin?And you can guarantee this one hundred percent because you not only read all the original languages fluently, you’re over 1900 years old, the world’s greatest scholar and have a copy of Matthew in Aramaic, but you can read Protestant minds as well.In which theology or history book was this first taught? Was it in Latin, Greek, Hebrew or Aramaic? Did you point out to him/her exactly where in the Bible giving up chocolate was mentioned? Did you show him/her where the word “Lent” was in the original Greek?
Most of this post is really just “WA WA WA, I am protestant and I am not going to listen to you Catholics because I believe that ALL CATHOLICS ARE GOING TO HELL”

It is also a fine example of the protestant mentality to completely ignore history and huge parts of the Bible whenever it proves them wrong, which it does on all issues where they differ with Catholicism.

However, I will respond briefly to just a hand full comments even though most are not worthy of a resonse.

The ORIGINAL Aramaic version of Matthew is part of the New Testament that is used by the Maronite Catholic Church, the Syrian Catholic Church, the Chaldean Catholic Church as well as their counterparts that are not in communion with Rome. This version of Matthew has been retained from ancient times and is believed by leading Biblical scholars and the Church itself as the original. In the West we still prefer to make translations from the Greek as it is also considered an original considering who it came about. Matthew would preach the Gospel, and he would preach it consitantly from day to day. He preached the Gospel in Aramaic. One of his students wrote down his words in Aramaic which means that it is probably very close to the actual words that Matthew used when he preached. The Greek came about by another of Matthew’s students listening to the Gospel in Aramaic but rendering it into Greek on the fly. As such, it to is an original in terms of documents but a translation considering that documents production.

The Latin word Purgere, is used to translate several different Greek word, the closest one to the theology of Purgatory being εσται. In English, these words should be translated as Clean, Cleansing, Cleaned. I hope you get the idea. I could also give you further solid scriptural evidence but you threw out the parts of the Bible that talk directly about Purgatory just so you could try to say we Catholics were wrong. On a side note, don’t you think it was wrong to throw out parts of the Bible? No Jesus on your Crosses, No Macabees in your Bibles, are you sure you are Christian? Being a Christian means accepting Church teachings because those teachings were given to her by Jesus. Being a Christian has Consequences. A lot of people have use this shortened version of the Bible to attack the divinity of Jesus which just isn’t possible with a Catholic Bible.

You can list as many different version of the Bible that you want but that does not make them the Originals. I admit that I first read the Bible in English but then I took the time and effort to learn the languages I needed to learn and I sat with the Bible years with my Grammars and Dictionaries at hand to work out what the bible really says. Not that I can carry on a conversation on Greek but I can certainly read the Bible in it. Considering what the Bible actually says in plane language and the way some of these translations render it, Yes I do consider myself a better Bible scholar then the people that are responsible for a bad translation.

The Worst translation of the Bible, KJV. If not for the numerous places where the translation is just WAY OFF, the really bad form of the English language (a langauge I already don’t love) the KJV is a bad translation of the Bible because its supporters hold it above the original languages. They would prefer to translate from the KJV instead of the original languages. Some of the supporters of KJV refuse to translate it and push it onto NON-English speaking populations who have no hope of ever understanding it. So what happens, these people worship the Book. They don’t worship God. They only worship the Book. At least I can point to the protestants and see that while they don’t worship God, they at least aren’t worshipping anything else. But when you push this KJV onto these Non-English speaking populations, you make an Idol out of the physical book and that must not be stood for.
 
Have any of you ever wondered why we normally have a Two day weekend. It is simple, bacause of the Catholic Church. We are called to honor the Sabbath, which is Saturday, and to rest on this day. We are called to WORSHIP on Sunday, as has been the practice of recognizing the resurrection since Christianity first began. Now I know that a lot of “christians” do work on Saturday and break the Sabbath. So the question arrises, are they still Christians or have they created their own new religion just for themselves?

I repect other religions enough to allow them to make decisions about their own faith. I am not going to tell a Budhist that they have to go to Mass on Sunday or read the Bible. These would be very good things but they should be a Christian first. Budhist, Shinto, Hindus, and Muslims all have their own seperate religions and as such they can decide for themselves their own secred text, their own disciplinary practices and what have you. I do not say they what they are doing is Right but I do respect them enough to allow another religion to make internal decisions about their own faith.

So we then look at protestantism, specifically since they want to be called Christians. Christianity has a set definition that can not be changed just because people don’t want to act Christian anymore. Christians hold no allegence higher then to God. If forced to do so, I would give up my United States Citizenship in an instant if it prevented me from continueing to be a Christian. Christians follow the commands of Jesus. Christians hold the entire cannon of scripture as inspired, even the parts that we may personnally not like. Christians have Jesus on the cross since it is Jesus who is divine, not the man made intrument of his death. Christians worship Jesus. Christians fast as per the teachings of Jesus.

Now, if protestants really are Christians, then there are some points that need to be cleared up. Do protestants hold the Cross by itself higher then Jesus? If so then they are no longer Christians. Do they pray constantly? Do they worship? Do they hold the ENTIRE cannon of scripture as inspired?

I mention these things because some protestants have begun to question and even deny the divinity of Jesus. Some have done away with a physical baptism and replaced it with a Listen and Repeat “I accept Jesus as my personal Lord and Savior.” I have never meet a protestant that actually knew that praying to God wasn’t enough or that they had to Worship God. In fact, I have never meet a protestant that knew the difference.

After a close examination, most protestants, though maybe not all, no longer qualify as Christians. No baptism, not a Christian. No divinity of Jesus, not a Christian. No worship, well at the very least a BAD Christian. Get divorced, not a Christian. Rejecting sacred scripture, not a complete Christian. No anointing with oil, not a Christian.

If the protestants did not want to claim to still be Christian then they would probably find that the Catholics wouldn’t call them to task on so many issues. If protestantism is recognized as a seperate religion outside of Christianity, then Catholics would have no say over which books you held as inspired, or over the morality that this seperate religion taught. As it is though, the Catholic Church is THE Christian Church and every Christian on the planet is under Catholic jurisdiction. Protestants still claim to be Christians, not only that they claim to be the only Christians and as such then the Catholic Church must exercise her God given authority over the protestant Churches.

So I think that we should look at the very mimimum, basic requirements of what is needed to be a Christain and then look at the protestants and see if they meet them. Some might but I would guess that most don’t.
 
catholic.com/library/Institution_of_the_Mass.asp

“Once for all”

The Catholic Church specifically says Christ does not die again—his death is once for all. It would be something else if the Church were to claim he does die again, but it doesn’t make that claim. Through his intercessory ministry in heaven and through the Mass, Jesus continues to offer himself to his Father as a living sacrifice, and he does so in what the Church specifically states is **“an unbloody manner”—**one that does not involve a new crucifixion.

Your church does not teach that Jesus is offered again in a bloody sacrifice on the altar. If it did, you would have some serious theological issues.
 
Have any of you ever wondered why we normally have a Two day weekend. It is simple, bacause of the Catholic Church. **We are called to honor the Sabbath, which is Saturday, and to rest on this day. ** We are called to WORSHIP on Sunday, as has been the practice of recognizing the resurrection since Christianity first began. Now I know that a lot of “christians” do work on Saturday and break the Sabbath. So the question arrises, are they still Christians or have they created their own new religion just for themselves?.
This is news to me. Can you show me in some church document like the catechism that Catholics are required to rest on Saturday?
 
Just a note and thought. How often is your mother mentioned in the Bible? How important is your mother to you? How important do you think Mary is to Christ? Some things are implicit aren’t they? Does everything important need to be spelled out with instructions in the Bible?
Code:
 My late mother is/was very important to me, of course. And I honor her, but don't venerate her.

  Back to one question no one has answered here as far as I can tell. If Mary were so central to early Christianity, why does St. Paul fail to mention her even once in all of his letters to those early churches? He gave them all sorts of instructions, enumerated many doctrines. If Mary was to be so venerated as in later and modern Catholicism, surely he would have mentioned her somewhere.

  Happy Valentine's Day? Now there's a saint (well, if he existed) who brings a lot of joy even today. Still, I wouldn't think of praying to him (or them - as I believe there may be several St. Valentines in Catholic tradition).
 
catholic.com/library/Institution_of_the_Mass.asp

“Once for all”

The Catholic Church specifically says Christ does not die again—his death is once for all. It would be something else if the Church were to claim he does die again, but it doesn’t make that claim. Through his intercessory ministry in heaven and through the Mass, Jesus continues to offer himself to his Father as a living sacrifice, and he does so in what the Church specifically states is **“an unbloody manner”—**one that does not involve a new crucifixion.

Your church does not teach that Jesus is offered again in a bloody sacrifice on the altar. If it did, you would have some serious theological issues.
While the quote is good, your argument is not. You make an assertion that I say that “Jesus is offered again” or re-sacrificed at Mass. I did not say that. The sacrifice that occurs at Mass is the very same as the one that occured on Calvary 2000 years ago.

Let us use logic to solve this debate:
What we know:

  1. *]The sacrifice on Calvary was a bloody sacrifice
    *]The sacrifice at Mass is the same sacrifice that occurred on Calvary
    If the sacrifice that occurred on Calvary was a bloody one and the sacrifice at Mass is the same sacrifice that occurred on Calvary then the sacrifice at Mass is a bloody sacrifice. Is the sacrifice presented in an unbloody manner? Yes, just as the article you reference says. Is the sacrifice an unbloody sacrifice (as you claim)? Absolutely not, it is very violent and bloody, just watch the Passion of the Christ.
 
This is news to me. Can you show me in some church document like the catechism that Catholics are required to rest on Saturday?
Only Protestants have this arguement about the rest day of the Lord…:rolleyes:
 
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