Why Is Marijuana use Immoral?

[Ana]

PALAMITE, that was an **EXCELLENT **post!! Every word was 100% right on!

I do understand why certain conspiracy theories would only complicate the thread, but I think the obvious answer to your last sentence concerning medicinal marijuana … At best, it is ignorance mixed with fear. At worst it’s the fact, as you pointed out, it is cheap, and can be technically be obtained with a only a few seeds, some water and light. Thereby eliminating the need for some VERY PROFITABLE drugs available only through pharmaceutical companies. They would have a vested interest in keeping the “Reefer Madness” propaganda alive. I find it hard to believe God would only provide extremely expensive synthetic medicine, with very nasty side effects to treat his sick children.

Although people can understand how this could be true of contraception vs. NFP. Where is the benefit for the pharmaceuticals with 100% natural, 100% side effect free, (after initial cost of materials) economically free … NFP? ALL of my nonCatholic friends, without exception, have never heard of NFP from their doctors. That is immoral in my opinion, to not even be given the choice.:nope: Greed stinks.

 

[Wildgraywolf]

Excellent post Palamite!

 

[carol_marie]

Maybe I’m just old fashioned (although I’m not actually that old - 38) but I have a different opinion of people who drink moderate amounts of alcohol vs. those who smoke pot. Pot smokers - in my opinion - are stoners who just sit around in that spaced out trance which is nothing like having a glass of wine with dinner or a beer while watching the football game. At the last supper Jesus blessed the wine… he didn’t pass around a joint.

Could you even imagine going to see your Priest and finding him in the rectory rolling a big old doobie?

Ick.

I do think maijuana should be available for medical purposes - cancer & aids patients etc. Whatever works to ease their suffering if fine by me.

 

[wabrams]

carol marie:

Maybe I’m just old fashioned (although I’m not actually that old - 38) but I have a different opinion of people who drink moderate amounts of alcohol vs. those who smoke pot. Pot smokers - in my opinion - are stoners who just sit around in that spaced out trance which is nothing like having a glass of wine with dinner or a beer while watching the football game. At the last supper Jesus blessed the wine… he didn’t pass around a joint.

Could you even imagine going to see your Priest and finding him in the rectory rolling a big old doobie?

Ick.

I do think maijuana should be available for medical purposes - cancer & aids patients etc. Whatever works to ease their suffering if fine by me.

Well, I smoked a lot of pot as a college student, and over half of that I didn’t sit around, being a stoner, in a spaced out trance. Come to think about, neither were most of the people I smoked with.

As far as going to the rectory and seeing my Priest rolling up a j, wouldn’t bother me at all. Hadn’t smoked in several years myself, but I’m not against others doing it.

 

[cynic]

the real issue is : is it ever moral to do take something to make you ‘high’, to consume something for the pleasurable effect it may induce?

Most people are going to say no, but if that’s the case then we should apply that to drinking. Even one glass of beer will give that ‘warm’ relaxed feeling, and I’m willing to bet a lot of moderate drinkers drink at least in part to get this sensation. How do you justify a moderate use of alcohol - which still has an mood changing effect - but condemn marijuana use on the same grounds.

 

[carol_marie]

**the real issue is : is it ever moral to do take something to make you ‘high’, to consume something for the pleasurable effect it may induce? **

Most people are going to say no, but if that’s the case then we should apply that to drinking. Even one glass of beer will give that ‘warm’ relaxed feeling, and I’m willing to bet a lot of moderate drinkers drink at least in part to get this sensation. How do you justify a moderate use of alcohol - which still has an mood changing effect - but condemn marijuana use on the same grounds.

Besides alcohol, all sorts of things can make a person “high.” To some, chocolate cake does it… for me… a 10 mile run does it. I have a friend who’s literally on cloud 9 when she finds the perfect pair of shoes on sale. Some people crave the opposite… for them skydiving gives them a rush. I don’t know that there’s anything wrong with altering one’s mood.

With majijuana, I’m going back to the fact that it’s illegal…but even if I lived where it wasn’t illegal - I suppose I sat in enough Dare to Say No programs that I’ve been conditioned to believe it’s wrong, evil and an all around bad idea. I’m sure it’s just exposure… I’ve seen enough images of successful people drinking to believe that drinking (in moderation) isn’t harmful. The only image I have of pot smokers is Cheech & Chong.

 

[Jasny]

Thanks for such a big response and I think I have a better idea of the issue.

The debate has seemed to come to the recreational use of alcohol and the recreational use of marijuana.

It seems to me that we have fallen nature to deal with. God allowed divorce and remarriage in the Old Testament but not in the New. When Jesus was asked He answered because of the hardness of your hearts.

The same argument could be used in this case, I think. God has allowed us to use alcohol because of the hardness of our hearts. We seem to have a dispensation for only this recreational drug, because it would be too hard for a majority of people.

This may not satisfy many but it may help what do you think?

 

[Palamite]

Do “Cheech and Chong” types exist? Obviously; I grew up knowing a few to be sure.

But sadly (and it was always a more tragic situation) I also knew plenty of men who would go out to play darts on Friday night, come back hammered, and if they didn’t get their latent rage out in a parkling brawl with other drunks, would smack the wife and kids around instead.

Come to think of it, I’ve never observed cannabis use, even when consumed excessively, to have this effect on anyone. At worst, the person becomes a giggly fool, and wants to do nothing but listen to Pink Floyd, play video games, and order pizza. While I fully agree that’s no way to live day in/day out, I have a hard time thinking that is objectively more ruinous to society or morals than what I’ve personally seen alcohol abuse do to families and friendships.

Personally, I’m not too big on the bud. Though here in Canada it’s legal status is somewhat “grey” (basically getting caught with small quantities will get you a fine, if anything at all; right now the courts have left personal possession in legal limbo, though I think the hesitancy toward full legalization has a lot to do with the 800lb gorilla living to the south of us, who we all know “hates dope”), it’s just not really my thing. Outside of fasting periods, I’d prefer a pint of red lager or some Crown Royal on the rocks any day (what can I say, my maternal ancestors are Irish!)

 

[Palamite]

Jasny,

The same argument could be used in this case, I think. God has allowed us to use alcohol because of the hardness of our hearts. We seem to have a dispensation for only this recreational drug, because it would be too hard for a majority of people.

I can’t agree with this, in so far as it puts a negative spin on the moderate, recreational use of intoxicating substances. While the Holy Scriptures have nothing kind to say about being a drunk, wine was always highly prized amongst the Israelites and there’s nothing wrong with “catching a buzz” - after all, if wine didn’t do this, I highly doubt it’d have been so popular, historically speaking. Please keep in mind that our Lord Himself was slandered by the Pharisees (whose name means “pure ones” - though generally this was a pretense, much like it has been amongst history’s various “teetotallers”) for being a “wine drinker”. While I’d never suggest the good Lord was a drunk, He wasn’t joyless and miserable either - His first public miracle was to supply copious quantities of high quality wine to a wedding party.

 

[carol_marie]

Palamite:

Do “Cheech and Chong” types exist? Obviously; I grew up knowing a few to be sure.

But sadly (and it was always a more tragic situation) I also knew plenty of men who would go out to play darts on Friday night, come back hammered, and if they didn’t get their latent rage out in a parkling brawl with other drunks, would smack the wife and kids around instead.

Come to think of it, I’ve never observed cannabis use, even when consumed excessively, to have this effect on anyone. At worst, the person becomes a giggly fool, and wants to do nothing but listen to Pink Floyd, play video games, and order pizza. While I fully agree that’s no way to live day in/day out, I have a hard time thinking that is objectively more ruinous to society or morals than what I’ve personally seen alcohol abuse do to families and friendships.

I agree. If given the choice between having to be around a mean drunk or an everyday pot smoker - I’ll take the pot smoker.

 

[snoopy]

cynic:

the real issue is : is it ever moral to do take something to make you ‘high’, to consume something for the pleasurable effect it may induce?

Most people are going to say no, but if that’s the case then we should apply that to drinking. Even one glass of beer will give that ‘warm’ relaxed feeling, and I’m willing to bet a lot of moderate drinkers drink at least in part to get this sensation. How do you justify a moderate use of alcohol - which still has an mood changing effect - but condemn marijuana use on the same grounds.

I’ve always thought this. I can’t understand why everyone else can’t see it. The last sentence says it all for me. To say anything else seems hypocritical to me.

 

[tom.wineman]

wabrams:

What’s your point? Same can be said for an alcoholic.

Both rob you of your reason.

 

[krokal]

Not when used in moderation.

 

[Coder]

God gives us our minds and bodies as a gift. Our minds help us to comprehend. Therefore, doesn’t anything that impairs our ability to think clearly affect our ability to know and love God as we should? Also marijuana can have pesticides and tar that can damage the lungs or enter the bloodstream.

Our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit.

The joy of the Holy Spirit cannot be compared to any man-made attempt to fill an emptiness with drugs.

The desire to use drugs may be a misguided search for God. Tell your sister that when she finds Jesus she will not want drugs.

 

[LilyM]

snoopy:

I’ve always thought this. I can’t understand why everyone else can’t see it. The last sentence says it all for me. To say anything else seems hypocritical to me.

Alcohol is not in the same CLASS as marijuana and other illegal drugs used recreationally. Alcohol IS in the same class as food. Food used in moderation is beneficial to health and perfectly moral (indeed necessary). Alcohol used in moderation is also beneficial to health. There are studies showing people who have 5 or so drinks a week are healthier than teetotalers, all other things being equal. For that matter all the same arguments can be made about caffeine.

People who eat junk or eat to the point of gluttony are going to find their health is impaired, same as people who drink half a bottle of scotch a day. So food and alcohol become immoral only when abused. We can’t totally ban something that is not only harmless but is in fact health-giving when used appropriately.

Marijuana, on the other hand, is like smoking - ANY use is abuse because how can anyone say their benefits (if there even are any) outweigh health repercussions at any level of use?

The immorality of indulging in tobacco and illicit drugs is unquestionable - the only questions are
a) to what degree are they immoral and
b) are they harmful and immoral enough that they should be illegal as well.

Both of those questions, widely speculated upon by the posters on this thread, are in fact outside its scope and the scope of the OP.

 

[fix]

LilyM:

Alcohol is not in the same CLASS as marijuana and other illegal drugs used recreationally. Alcohol IS in the same class as food. Food used in moderation is beneficial to health and perfectly moral (indeed necessary). Alcohol used in moderation is also beneficial to health. There are studies showing people who have 5 or so drinks a week are healthier than teetotalers, all other things being equal. For that matter all the same arguments can be made about caffeine.

People who eat junk or eat to the point of gluttony are going to find their health is impaired, same as people who drink half a bottle of scotch a day. So food and alcohol become immoral only when abused. We can’t totally ban something that is not only harmless but is in fact health-giving when used appropriately.

Marijuana, on the other hand, is like smoking - ANY use is abuse because how can anyone say their benefits (if there even are any) outweigh health repercussions at any level of use?

The immorality of indulging in tobacco and illicit drugs is unquestionable - the only questions are
a) to what degree are they immoral and
b) are they harmful and immoral enough that they should be illegal as well.

Both of those questions, widely speculated upon by the posters on this thread, are in fact outside its scope and the scope of the OP.

I think Pope JPII would agree with you :

“It is true that there is a distinct difference between the use of drugs and the use of alcohol: while a moderate use of the latter as a drink does not offend moral principles, only its abuse can be condemned; instead, the use of drugs is always unlawful because it implies an unjustified and unreasonable renunciation of thinking, desiring and acting as a free person”
SHOULD ‘SOFT’ DRUGS BE LEGALIZED?Pontifical Council for the Family

 

[cynic]

the health benefits of alcohol, or the detrimental effects on tobacco marijuana are not the issue. Why is it ok to get a buzz from a glass of wine and not a joint? You could argue that alcohol comes in the form of a drink, etc but then why not just drink water? You’d have to be very nieve to believe that people will have a drink of wine or beer simply because they like the taste of it. We all know that pleasant relaxed feeling is part of the reason.

 

[LilyM]

cynic:

the health benefits of alcohol, or the detrimental effects on tobacco marijuana are not the issue. Why is it ok to get a buzz from a glass of wine and not a joint? You could argue that alcohol comes in the form of a drink, etc but then why not just drink water? You’d have to be very nieve to believe that people will have a drink of wine or beer simply because they like the taste of it. We all know that pleasant relaxed feeling is part of the reason.

If people don’t worry about the taste of beer or wine then why do some bottles of wine sell for hundreds of dollars while others are $5? Why are there wine and beer tasting shows which award prizes and medals to the best-TASTING wines and beers?

Obviously there are plenty of people who DO care about the taste of their alcohol. I know my BIL gets his beer specially imported from Germany to Australia because it’s just GOT to be his particular brand. Of course taste matters - except to alcoholics.

And yes you get the buzz, as I do from lots of other things - food, art, music, flowers, children … clearly the buzz is to do with ME and my own brain chemicals and not necessarily with the object producing the feelings. Anyone who needs one particular thing (especially if it is also illegal and unhealthy) for that ‘buzz’ is addicted pure and simple. If you’re not addicted you can get the buzz from other more legal and healthy things.

And addiction in any form (be it to gambling, internet, pornography or drugs) is immoral - it is a waste of your resources as a human being, which you could be using more productively.

My point of view is - there are moral and immoral ways to do most things - moral and immoral ways to drive, to work, to make money, to use money, to conduct your sex life or your marriage. There are even morally acceptable occasions (in very limited circumstances indeed) to take life. The line where morality falls for me in terms of non-medical use of drugs is related to harms v benefits.

 

[cynic]

you’ve tip toed around the issue : obviousely the effects of alcohol are still part of the reason people drink - even if they can apprecitae the taste etc. Alcohol is a drug. Why is it ok to use this drug in moderation and not another if the effects of both are relatively mild? Where is the moral difference ? Who said anything about addiction anyway…

 

[LilyM]

cynic:

you’ve tip toed around the issue : obviousely the effects of alcohol are still part of the reason people drink - even if they can apprecitae the taste etc. Alcohol is a drug. Why is it ok to use this drug in moderation and not another if the effects of both are relatively mild? Where is the moral difference ? Who said anything about addiction anyway…

I’m not tiptoeing - perhaps I have been unclear though. And in hindsight I probably shouldn’t have brought addiction into the equation.

Morality or immorality of an action is often dependent on your own intent and purposes when you’re doing it. If I pick up a gun and my one and only intent is to shoot someone with it, it’s clearly immoral. If my one and only intent is to shoot a deer and I accidentally shoot someone a la Dick Cheney, it may be somewhat negligent, but is most likely not immoral.

On the other hand I may be in between the two extremes - for example really stupidly and negligently skylarking around with the gun and it goes off and injures someone. In that case most people would say that my behaviour was somewhat immoral, but nowhere near as bad as fully intentional and premeditated shooting. So clearly there are grey areas. Alcohol is like that - depending on your intent it can be clearly moral, clearly immoral or somewhere inbetween.

Now part of the problem with your question may stem from the use of the word ‘buzz’. It’s a little tricky for me to compare the effects of alcohol with those of marijuana, which I have never had.
It doesn’t appear to me though that you can predictably consume marijuana at a level that will purely relax you without you getting ‘buzzed’ ‘stoned’ or whatever your favourite word is, in other words impaired mentally. This is unlike alcohol, where you can fairly predictably drink without getting tipsy in the slightest. For this reason alone I would don’t see that anyone could ever consume marijuana and say ‘I 90% certainly won’t get stoned’. It’s that sort of unpredictability about marijuana’s effects that makes me doubt that it could ever be moral to consume it.

The fact that a lot of people drink to get tipsy as well, as you point out, and as I agree they in fact do, doesn’t make it any less immoral to in fact get tipsy on alcohol. Nor does it make it more moral to consume marijuana for the same reason. If 90% of drivers killed people when they drove it wouldn’t make driving immoral for the 10% who drove safely. Neither would it make it moral for the 90% who were bad drivers to drive.

Now I can comprehend people drinking for reasons other than to get a ‘buzz’ (as I define the term), because I DO drink for other reasons. I can also comprehend people who can regularly and consistently drink without getting tipsy, because I in fact do so. If you can’t comprehend it, and if a lot of others can’t, then that’s too bad. Maybe the situation is the same with marijuana, but I doubt it.

Hope I’ve made my position clearer(?) It’s been good for me to have to think about my attitude.