why is sunday instead of saturday the sabboth?

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SDA2RC said:
I dont disagree with anything said in Dies Domini… However, this does not mean that we are bound to the Mosaic law, specifically the 3rd Commandment as written in scripture. Unless you are obeying it by observing a Seventh-Day as the Sabbath, you are not keeping it. You may be keeping the Church’s interpretation of how to fulfill the moral aspect of the commandment, but you cannot keep the commandment without keeping the 7th day Sabbath.

Brandon
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Okay, let’s go with that. So when you don’t attend mass you are sinning against who?
 
Happily there are many things the Church teaches that are not in the Bible and that come to use not from the Bible, but from the Church. Most of these laws were created hundreds sometimes even a thousand years after Christ… so the law was not already in place.
happilycatholic said:
What you have below is the Church acting out its mission. They are not “making law” they are carrying out the Law already in place.
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happilycatholic said:
You cannot sin against the (c)hurch, only God. Insomuch as you do commit a sin that the Church sets forth in precept, you are sinning against God Himself because that’s where the precept came from.
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Happily:

If the Church makes a law that says that it is grave sin to tell Knock-Knock Jokes on Thursdays, and you tell a Knock-Knock joke then you have committed a grave sin against God, because the Church has the authority to bind and to loose. If the Church says that it is sin, then it is a sin against God.

Do you deny what the Catholic Encyclopedia stated?
The authority to enact laws obligatory on all the faithful belongs to the Church by the very nature of her constitution. Entrusted with the original deposit of Christian revelation, she is the appointed public organ and interpreter of that revelation for all time. For the effective discharge of her high office, she must be empowered to give to her laws the gravest sanction
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happilycatholic said:
Okay, let’s go with that. So when you don’t attend mass you are sinning against who?
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Its a sin against God… disobedience to God for not obeying the Church. Although that could change next week… much like abstaining from Meat on Fridays changed… it was one day a sin… and the next day… not a sin. That is because they are institutes of the Church… not God.
 
SDA2RC said:
Happily there are many things the Church teaches that are not in the Bible and that come to use not from the Bible, but from the Church. Most of these laws were created hundreds sometimes even a thousand years after Christ… so the law was not already in place.
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So the Commandments weren’t in place? Since God’s will stems from the Commandments, the Church’s mission if you will, is the same as Christ’s. It is to teach us ‘how’ to do God’s will. The Church teaches many things that are explicitly in the Commandments, but these things teach us how to live a God-like life according to the Commandments. Like going to mass every Sunday.

Just because it’s “not in the Bible” does not mean the Church simply made it up because they thought it was a good idea.

We are in agreement that all Church doctrine is not explicitly stated in Scripture. However, it IS certainly implied in Scripture through Apostolic Tradition.
 
Not everything is implied in scripture. For example, the idea that we must receive communion during the Lent season and that we must go to confession during the Lent season is no where implied in scripture… it is a precept of the Church… and was not given to use by the Apostles. it was created much later than that by the Church.

The commandments have been in place since the exodus… However, we don’t obey the commandments literally… for example, Catholics dont observe the 7th Day Sabbath, or refrain from statues and pictures… Therefore I dont know what your point was in this.

God’s will stems from God, not the commandments. His will to the Jews was partially expressed in the commandments. However, since we are not Jews, we obey the moral precepts of the commandments, but not the commandments themselves.
happilycatholic said:
So the Commandments weren’t in place? Since God’s will stems from the Commandments, the Church’s mission if you will, is the same as Christ’s. It is to teach us ‘how’ to do God’s will. The Church teaches many things that are explicitly in the Commandments, but these things teach us how to live a God-like life according to the Commandments. Like going to mass every Sunday.

Just because it’s “not in the Bible” does not mean the Church simply made it up because they thought it was a good idea.

We are in agreement that all Church doctrine is not explicitly stated in Scripture. However, it IS certainly implied in Scripture through Apostolic Tradition.
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SDA2RC said:
Its a sin against God… disobedience to God for not obeying the Church. Although that could change next week… much like abstaining from Meat on Fridays changed… it was one day a sin… and the next day… not a sin. That is because they are institutes of the Church… not God.
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The Church has the authority to interpret and reinterpret Scripture. What can I say?

So if it’s a sin against God, which of His Commands have you broken?
 
happilycatholic said:
The Church has the authority to interpret and reinterpret Scripture. What can I say?

So if it’s a sin against God, which of His Commands have you broken?
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His command to obey the Church. I agree that the church does have that authority. Thats my point… We dont observe the commandments of scripture, because under the New Covenant, the church has the authority to change them. We observe the 10 commandments as presented for obedience by the Church… not scripture, because the 10 Commandments of scripture were done away with at the Cross. The 10 Commandments of the Church contain the same moral precepts as those in the OT, but are interpreted through the New Covenant.

But when talking to an Adventist… we do not keep the 10 Commandments that are in the Bible…
 
SDA2RC said:
Not everything is implied in scripture. For example, the idea that we must receive communion during the Lent season and that we must go to confession during the Lent season is no where implied in scripture… it is a precept of the Church… and was not given to use by the Apostles. it was created much later than that by the Church.

Agreed, and in not obeying, the only sin commited is not attending mass, regardless of Lent.

The commandments have been in place since the exodus… However, we don’t obey the commandments literally… for example, Catholics dont observe the 7th Day Sabbath, or refrain from statues and pictures… Therefore I dont know what your point was in this.

The Church has defined idols. Our religious figures, no matter how they are presented, are not idols. That is why we are not guilty of breaking the Commandment dealing with idol worship. So the Church’s position is that we certainly are obeying the Commandment literally. I’ve not seen where the Church has told us to obey what God commands in any way other than literally.

God’s will stems from God, not the commandments. His will to the Jews was partially expressed in the commandments. However, since we are not Jews, we obey the moral precepts of the commandments, but not the commandments themselves.
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Here you are being rediculous. God’s will stems from God, not the Commandments? How the heck are we supposed to know what God’s Will is?
 
The Church does not need scripture to enact laws… they dont have to be implied, inferred, or otherwise found in the Bible to bind us to something.

The Authority of the Church, its teachings, and Tradition, comes from Christ… not scripture. The Authority of scripture comes from God too… so the two together are the Word of God.
 
happilycatholic said:
Here you are being rediculous. God’s will stems from God, not the Commandments? How the heck are we supposed to know what God’s Will is?
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The Holy Spirit, the Church and Scripture.

AS far as idols… the first commandment prohibits the making of any images at all… not just the worship of them. It doesnt matter if we are not worshipping them… the first commandment prohibits MAKING them.

However, this is not part of the New Covenant… like Marsha and I said… we do not follow the of the Bible literally!
 
happilycatholic said:
Here you are being rediculous. God’s will stems from God, not the Commandments? How the heck are we supposed to know what God’s Will is?
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The commandments are a creation of God, His will cannot be subject to his creation… your being ridiculous.
 
happilycatholic said:
Here you are being rediculous. God’s will stems from God, not the Commandments? How the heck are we supposed to know what God’s Will is?
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By reading the Gospels,

By looking at the life of Jesus,

By loving God and our neighbor as Jesus did,

By taking up our cross and following Jesus,

By praying to do God’s Will from that point on!

By living, loving, celebrating, suffering, and dying as Jesus did.

It’s all in those first four books of the New Testament.

And thank God that He doesn’t leave us alone in this, but provides His Universal Church to help us on our way…one living cell joined with billions of other living cells that make One Living Body…The Body of Jesus Christ who gives us life eternal!!

And that’s why I chose to be Catholic.

God bless all!!!
 
SDA2RC said:
The 10 Commandments of the Church contain the same moral precepts as those in the OT, but are interpreted through the New Covenant.

But when talking to an Adventist… we do not keep the 10 Commandments that are in the Bible…
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Well gosh Brandon that’s pretty obvious from our conversations. Thanks.

All this time I’ve been arguing how catholics look at the Commandments and how we apply them to our faith and lives and you’ve been trying to tell me from an Adventist’s point of view and denying it all along.

I don’t look at Church doctrine from an Adventist point of view so when I say we are bound by the Third Commandment, I mean to say exactly what MY Church says, not taking into consideration what an Adventist thinks.
 
“The Authority of the Church, its teachings, and Tradition, comes from Christ… not scripture. The Authority of scripture comes from God too… so the two together are the Word of God.”

Well, Duh. What a genius.

We wouldn’t have the Written Word of God had it not been for those who were inspired to write it. This is a little like which came first, the chicken or the egg.

I’m not sure how someone can make this statement and still REFUSE to see that the Church has said, in more ways than one, WE ARE BOUND BY THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, ALL OF THEM.
 
HappyCatholic,

By “bound” to the third commandment, I meant “bound” to its ceremonial aspect; we are bound to its moral aspect.

And yea, disobeying precepts of the Church can be mortal sins.Remember that the Catechism relates the observance of the holy days of obligation as a way of observing the third commandment. Catholic observe them on penalty of mortal sin. But, they CLEARLY have no explicit basis in scripture, and the specific days observed differs from nation to nation (St. Patrick’s Day is obligatory in Ireland, not in the US).

What commandment is being broken? The canonical tradition of the Church doesn’t tell us. Maybe disobedience to authority.
 
Happily,
LOL… you still dont get it… 🤷

Brandon
happilycatholic said:
Well gosh Brandon that’s pretty obvious from our conversations. Thanks.

All this time I’ve been arguing how catholics look at the Commandments and how we apply them to our faith and lives and you’ve been trying to tell me from an Adventist’s point of view and denying it all along.

I don’t look at Church doctrine from an Adventist point of view so when I say we are bound by the Third Commandment, I mean to say exactly what MY Church says, not taking into consideration what an Adventist thinks.
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happilycatholic said:
“The Authority of the Church, its teachings, and Tradition, comes from Christ… not scripture. The Authority of scripture comes from God too… so the two together are the Word of God.”

Well, Duh. What a genius.

We wouldn’t have the Written Word of God had it not been for those who were inspired to write it. This is a little like which came first, the chicken or the egg.

I’m not sure how someone can make this statement and still REFUSE to see that the Church has said, in more ways than one, WE ARE BOUND BY THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, ALL OF THEM.
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Happily:

Do you understand that Tradition includes the Bible?
Do you understand that the Church has Authority Over the Bible?
Do you understand that the Bible does not have Authority Over the Church?

The Church decided what was included in the Bible.
The Church decided what the Bible means.
The Church can bind us to laws not included in the Bible under pains of mortal sin and loose us from laws contained in the Bible.

Marsha
 
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