Why is the Catholic Church hated so much?

[JustaServant]

Tim, as a member of your generation I am sorry you were not properly taught. A product of the seventies and the ‘spirit of Vatican 2.’
If you truly were an altar boy, and not trying to decieve us, why in the world would you walk away from all that?
I did, for twenty years. I even became a preacher.
But Tim:
When the Eucharist is removed from a Christian’s life, they are forever trying to find something to replace it with.

Some (like me) try Bible study. But no amount of knowledge, memorization, or meditation on the Sacred Scriptures can give me what the Eucharist gives me.
Some try music. Emotional music can make my toe tap or bring me to tears. But as good as music is, it can never give me what can give me what the Eucharist gives me.
Others, look for ‘miracles and manifestations’. They at least know there is something more, an encounter with the Divine. But there is no greater miracle or manifestation greater than that which is found in the Eucharist.

When you’re seven years old and you run away from home, it’s a lot of fun at 12 noon. But by 6pm it’s not fun anymore, you want to return home.
It’s time to come back home Tim.

 

[Nicea325]

Again Tim, where in the Bible does it sola Scriptura, clearly and without question?

No where! People like Tim inject it into the text. Tim like so many want Scripture to say what they want it to say. Truly a sad practice and he is to blind even to notice it.

 

[pablope]

I didn’t say anything about refuting any doctrine. I am simply providing Scripture. You all know that I believe Sola Scriptura, so there is no surprises. If you think that the Scripture is refuting something, they’re not my words, but His.

Since the Bible does not have voice, how can it speak or tell you what the words actually mean?

But the interpretation is yours…not the Holy Spirit’s…othewise, we would all have the same understanding…yes? no?

 

[wmscott]

LOL! Of course…the notorious and perverted verses by non-Catholics to prove a lie!

WRONG! First of all, St.Paul said those words…not Jesus,so try again. Second, no where does St.Paul say in those verses scripture alone is the final authority. NO WHERE!

One more time:

Where did Jesus teach: The Bible-Alone.

Keep trying…I do admire your efforts.

I know what you are asking but I do not think he gets it. There was no Bible until the Catholic Church set the canon and gave it to the world. To that end I like the following:

2 Peter 3:15-16
And consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, as our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, also wrote to you, speaking of these things as he does in all his letters. In them there are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures.

Haydocks Catholic Bible Commentary
Ver. 15-16. As also our most dear brother, Paul,…hath written to you. He seems to mean in his epistle to the Hebrews or converted Jews, (Chap. x. 37.) where he says: yet a little while,…and he that is to come, will come, and will not delay. — In which are some things hard to understand, especially by unlearned, ignorant people, unstable, inconstant, not well grounded in faith, and which they wrest,[2] as they do also the other scriptures, by their private interpretations, to their own perdition. (Witham)

 

[Nelka]

When the Eucharist is removed from a Christian’s life, they are forever trying to find something to replace it with.

I like this sentence.

Could it be changed slightly to be used for a non-Christian?

 

[Nicea325]

I know what you are asking but I do not think he gets it. There was no Bible until the Catholic Church set the canon and gave it to the world. To that end I like the following:

2 Peter 3:15-16
And consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, as our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, also wrote to you, speaking of these things as he does in all his letters. In them there are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures.

Haydocks Catholic Bible Commentary
Ver. 15-16. As also our most dear brother, Paul,…hath written to you. He seems to mean in his epistle to the Hebrews or converted Jews, (Chap. x. 37.) where he says: yet a little while,…and he that is to come, will come, and will not delay. — In which are some things hard to understand, especially by unlearned, ignorant people, unstable, inconstant, not well grounded in faith, and which they wrest,[2] as they do also the other scriptures, by their private interpretations, to their own perdition. (Witham)

Oh trust me and I am sure you are very aware of it;but most like Tim will ignore any historical evidence regarding the canon,so it is pointless to continue.

 

[pismopal]

If you read 2 Timothy 3:16-18 and 2 Thesalonians, again, I know you’ll find it there if you look hard enough. All the best.

Tim

2 Timothy 3:16-18 does not support sola scriptura at all. Clearly the Bible IS inspired of God and useful for teaching…etc but who is argueing with that? What these verses do NOT say is that ALL useful teaching comes from the Bible. In fact…2 Thesalonians admonishes us to hold fast to " …the traditions you received from us, either by our word or by letter." St Paul has not supported the " Bible alone" , but in fact supports the Churches position…strongly.

 

[Nicea325]

2 Timothy 3:16-18 does not support sola scriptura at all. Clearly the Bible IS inspired of God and useful for teaching…etc but who is argueing with that? What these verses do NOT say is that ALL useful teaching comes from the Bible. In fact…2 Thesalonians admonishes us to hold fast to " …the traditions you received from us, either by our word or by letter." St Paul has not supported the " Bible alone" , but in fact supports the Churches position…strongly.

I am assuming your screen name is related to Pismo Beach,CA?

 

[pismopal]

I am assuming your screen name is related to Pismo Beach,CA?

You could also assume my name has to do with a famous clam…I will answer to either.

 

[Nicea325]

You could also assume my name has to do with a famous clam…I will answer to either.

:tiphat: My brother attended Cal Poly @ SLO and remember Pismo Beach. I am from So.Cal, San Diego to be precise.

 

[GreggAlvarez]

You know, you don’t HAVE to disagree with me on everything JUST because I’m not Catholic.
You are allowed to agree with Scripture every once in a while. I’m just saying.

I will beat this into your head if I have to. We don’t disagree JUST because you are not Catholic. We do have minds of our own. And disagreeing with you does not equal disagreeing with Scripture as you suggest.

Jesus Christ said, “I am the Way, the Truth and the Life.” Not Tim insertyourlastnamehere

It is utter hubris and demeaning to make superficial judgments such as those you make against us.

 

[Not_Sure_1]

I have come across this general sentiment of hostility from a variety of people- I’m sure that every Catholic must have. Now I know that there are as many reasons and angles to this as there are groups of people out there.

Please share charitably. Why?

because we have the one and only truth. because Jesus said that they would hate us, because we come in his name. because no matter how many times people try to get rid of us, we only become stronger. because we brought morality to refound Europe and spread it across the globe. because we can never compromise. because we everything modernism brings, we reject. They hate us because we stay who we are, Catholic.

 

[Marie5890]

I have come across this general sentiment of hostility from a variety of people- I’m sure that every Catholic must have. Now I know that there are as many reasons and angles to this as there are groups of people out there.

Please share charitably. Why?

From those that I have to deal with, I would say that there reason are this.

1)the corruption that does show up within the institutional church. The sex abuse scandal and the covering up that went on. I know that they are painting the entire church and priesthood with this, but for them, that is a strong reason.

1. They dont like the stance of the church on birth control, gays, etc etc. They dont understand the theology that many here do, but again, it is another reason for anti-Catholic sentiment and again they would point to hypocrisy and discrimination within the institutional church.

3)A great deal of the church’s checkered past, again with corruption. Again, they are painting with a broad brush, but it is factual to say that corruption has been part of the papacy and papal history…

We may not like the fact that there are legit reasons that fuel a great deal of anti-Catholic sentiment, but let’s not bury our heads in the sand.

The Church is always in need of renewal and penance. The people within her and who often run her are broken human beings.

And sin happens.

People dont like hypocrisy. Many feel the church is like “you need to do a.,b., and c.,” and then those very same people learn about the sex abuse scandal.

Things like that dont help the Church’s reputation.

 

[GreggAlvarez]

It’s interesting how the tone of your e-mail is coming through loud and clear.
What is it about the Scripture that I am providing that is getting under your skin?
I don’t understand.

E-mail?

Anyway… So, then you understand that I am trying to be as polite as possible in pointing out your many insults. If you don’t get that, then you are right. You don’t understand.

And this is what I have a problem with: you thinking that I or any Catholic has a problem with Scripture. When did I ever say I had a problem with it? Oh, that’s right. I didn’t. But why would you think that? I have no idea.

The Scriptural acounts you have provided only further my understanding that the Eucharist at the Mass is an eternal “presentation” (for my lack of better words) of the sacrifice at Calvary. And not only that, it justifies that the Eucharist is the Lord’s Supper, the Sacrifice at the Cross, the triumphant Resurrection and Ascension of our Lord Jesus Christ.

So, to say that the Scripture gets under my skin is absurd. Do you want me to say, “I hate Scripture” so that way your opinions are justified? Or do you just feel like saying that?

I ask because I never once remotely implied it. What I did imply was that I disagree with your interpretation, which you understand is to be expected. So, why the hubris and hatred? Yes, it is hatred to tell one what they believe in a condescending manner. Was it the Holy Spirit that told you to do that?

 

[JustaServant]

People dont like hypocrisy.

And they won’t find that in whatever group or sect they join?
Of course they will, and they will discover the biggest hypocrites in the world are ourselves.
When I was a pastor I used to hear the line over and over: “I don’t go to church because I don’t want to be a hypocrite!!”
My answer was always “then don’t be one…”
The Church is a hospital for sinners, not a country club for saints. The ones who already think they are saints, and have no humility, are usually the real hypocrites.

 

[GreggAlvarez]

I agree, but just because I rely on Scripture alone doesn’t make me ‘unrighteous’.

Ok, who ever said anything of the sort? I was talking about being obedient and charitable. I never once said that Sola Scriptura makes you “unrighteous”. Scripture does have the healing power to change a person in the right direction if we listened to the words, instead of just looking at them or merely reading them.

Tell me where I was knocking on the fact that you rely on Scripture.

While I disagree with Sola Scriptura and think it is unreasonable (rightly so), that does not translate to me thinking “Scripture only” makes a person unrighteous. Many Catholics rely on Scripture for their daily walk with God, as well as prayers and such from their saints brothers and sisters upstairs. It is the trusting of one’s own interpretation to another that is unrighteous.

Also, I am not speaking, I am typing. I am not judging either, just providing information.

Not judging? Do you read your posts? Can you honestly tell all of us that there is not a hint of judgment?

What information are you providing? Scripture? Ok… But you act as we have never seen those passages. Also, you act as if they are conrary to our beliefs. You also act as if we will/should succumb to your interpretation.

Merely poviding information is something you are not doing.

And since you ‘don’t believe me for one second’, are you being self-righteous and judgemental? Just asking. Seriously, what is truly bothering you about me?

Self-righteous and judgmental because I don’t believe you? The answer is “no”.

What bothers me about you? You come to Catholic website. You make insult after insult to my fellow Catholics. You insult the integrity of the Catholic Church, which happens to contain my beliefs. You say “For God’s glory” or “blessings” at the end of each post which contains harsh judgments (such as saying we don’t believe the Bible is inerrant). You tell me to my cyber face that Scripture gets under my skin as if you know better than me what I think about Scripture. And lastly, you have the audacity to ask me what bothers me about you.

Does that make sense?

 

[Marie5890]

And they won’t find that in whatever group or sect they join?
Of course they will, and they will discover the biggest hypocrites in the world are ourselves.
When I was a pastor I used to hear the line over and over: “I don’t go to church because I don’t want to be a hypocrite!!”
My answer was always “then don’t be one…”
The Church is a hospital for sinners, not a country club for saints. The ones who already think they are saints, and have no humility, are usually the real hypocrites.

I agree.

Im just pointing out why many people are anti-Catholic.

 

[GreggAlvarez]

If you read 2 Timothy 3:16-18 and 2 Thesalonians, again, I know you’ll find it there if you look hard enough. All the best.

Tim

I read 2 Timothy over and over and over again. I even looked for ways to make a semantic argument where one could reasonably conclude that Scripture Only is the way to go. I could not do it. All it says is that Scripture is good for teaching, refutation, corrections and training in righteousness.

We have no problems with that. But to use this as proof of Scripture Only is only making things worse for you. It never even says the word “only”. Nor does it say nothing else is useful (I.e., historical documents, reason, logic, etc…).

Now to 2 Thessalonians… Same problem… It never once mentions Scripture Only. But I did find this gem:

Therefore… hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours.

So, if Scripture Only is what all Christians should practice, then they disobeyed Scripture by not holding them fast, disregarding them or by deleting them.

The argument may be made that verse 15 was only talking about traditions and not “Tradition” as those pesky Catholics say. But the previous verse says this:

…[God] has also called you through our gospel to possess the glory of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

The Catholic Sacred Tradition is exactly that: the Gospel (the Good News of Salvation) preached by the Apostles through written and oral statements.

So, to see the linkage between “our Gospel” and “traditions”, I have put the two verses (14-15) together:

…[God] has also called you through our gospel to possess the glory of Our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore… hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours.

Here is a truncated version of these two verses, which is easier to understand why we believe in Sacred Tradition:

God has called you through our gospel; Therefore, brothers and sisters, hold fast to the traditions we have passed down to you. (or “we have taught you” or “you have been taught”.) He was admonishing the Christians to remember what they were taught orally and by letter because Christ taught them.

It seems to me that to use this as proof for Scripture Only would prove it can’t be true.

Scripture is good for refutation and correction indeed.

 

[rtu25]

misinformation!.. of the teaching of the Catholic Faith.
They judge by what they percieved to SEE.
without the benefit of them asking a Parish Priest about there uncertainty of thoughts.
If your uncertain about something in school about a topic from a lesson… Do you ask your fellow classmate for answer? or do you ask the teacher?

 

[Jack_Bauer]

Oh trust me and I am sure you are very aware of it;but most like Tim will ignore any historical evidence regarding the canon,so it is pointless to continue.

You took the words right out of my mouth.

People like Tim don’t seem to realize that many of us former Protestants that have converted to Catholicism weren’t you’re average Protestant. I’ve come to meet many former preachers, like myself. Fallen away Catholics fail to realize the level of research we’ve engaged in while preparing for serious bible lessons, sermons, and growth, but then we were shocked by truth that emerged from the pages, finally tying the strings together, with sense that just fell into place. Our new found faith grounded in the Church they left is so difficult to cope with that they MUST dismiss what we’ve learned and try to express to them because their choice to leave and then proselytize become meaningless. The sacrifices they made, the foolishness of their actions are unbearable to accept. So, they feed the hungry lion, hoping its hunger is quenched so that they can continue in what the want to believe is true. Having been a fallen away Catholic, I understand and finally realized after several years of trying to reach out to them that they just have to go through the process. It’s their journey.