Why is the Catholic Church hated so much?

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JustaServant said:
What is frustrating is this guy apparently has read nothing, zero, anything in response to him. I can honestly say the fundamentalists I have encountered that scream the loudest about their KJV Bibles, never seem to read their KJV Bibles. They rely on what someone says is in the Bible. They allow someone else to think for them.

It’s not reading comprehension, its just a devotion to ignorace.
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You may enjoy this simplified summary of the different stages of spiritual growth

It helped me understand why one should not argue with a fundamentalist, and expect them to learn from the discussion.
 
Tony888 said:
You may enjoy this simplified summary of the different stages of spiritual growth

It helped me understand why one should not argue with a fundamentalist, and expect them to learn from the discussion.
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Fundamentalist Presuppositions
  1. Presume everyone else is wrong
  2. Presume Catholics and others don’t know the bible
  3. Presume Catholic are lying or confused
  4. Presume Catholics are going to hell.
etc.

Having been a fundamentalist for 2 decades recently, I presupose most fundamentalists are afraid of their own shadow.
 
Jack_Bauer said:
Fundamentalist Presuppositions
  1. Presume everyone else is wrong
  2. Presume Catholics and others don’t know the bible
  3. Presume Catholic are lying or confused
  4. Presume Catholics are going to hell.
etc.

Having been a fundamentalist for 2 decades recently, I presupose most fundamentalists are afraid of their own shadow.
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Jack, read the link. In fact, the fundamentalist mindset exists in all faiths, including Catholics, LDS, Hindu, etc. It’s not just for Protestants 😊
  1. presume everyone else is wrong,
 
Tony888 said:
Jack, read the link. In fact, the fundamentalist mindset exists in all faiths, including Catholics, LDS, Hindu, etc. It’s not just for Protestants 😊
  1. presume everyone else is wrong,
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I would agree in part that 99.9997% of all fundamentalist assume everyone else is wrong. [like that don’t you? I can make more up if you like.:D]
 
newcreation2009 said:
The pope is not inerrant. Person verses teaching. Huge difference. The pope’s formal declarations from the Office [from the seat of his office as leader of the Lord’s Church on Earth] on the matters of faith and morals are considered to be infallible. Inerrant. This is often confused with impeccable. He’s just a man like you and I, only in his office, as scripture says, is holy and better in the state of celibacy compared to those who are married. We could bounce this around for a while. Most Catholics do not know their faith or the teachings of the Catholic Church. That’s why they end up leaving.
RESPONSE: Well, who’s to blame for them leaving? Or maybe, just maybe they leave once they find out the truth?

I can help you understand it more precisely. Most Protestants misinterpret this without realizing they’re trying to apply modern resources with resources available to them during that time. In fact, I thought I already explain this in part to you. And, what changes are you talking about?
RESPONSE: I love you, bro, but how is 2 Timothy 3:16 - 17 misinterpretted or applied differently today than when it was written? See, that’s what I’m talking about, Catholics changing the inerrant, infallable Scripture of the Almighty, Sovereign God, then claimimg that Protestants are changing them to suit ‘modern resources’. Are you kidding me?

SO why do you not accept or ignore the beliefes and teachings of the early Christians during the days following the lives of the apostles? It is clear that they believe Mary remained a virgin even after the birth of Jesus. You’re making up your own religion as Protestants do. This believe seems to be based on modern concepts of culture, and rudely ignores the culture of Jesus’ time. It’s kind of like scolding people in the 1800;s for not practicing birth control because they couldn’t afford the kids. During that time they believed any kind of procreation was sinful… that included the Protestants. I wish more people were required to take geography from not only economics, but also historic and culture perspectives. It would clear up a lot of this twisted thinking.
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RESPONSE: I ignore 'beliefs/teachings of early Christians…BECAUSE IT’S NOT IN THE BIBLE!!! The BIBLE is the inerrant, infallable WORD OF GOD…not some non-canonical writings.
2 Timothy 3:16-17 (straight-forward and easy to understand)
16 ALL Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
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BECAUSE IT IS NOT IN THE BIBLE? Show us where God TAUGHT EVERYTHING MUST BE IN THE BIBLE? Where did God say people can own a Bible? Until you show us those very words by God,then your argument is self-rebuking and contradictory.
 
KathleenGee said:
Thanks for the good and informative reference, Tony.

Here are two more: Fowler’s early 1980’s www.usefulcharts.com/psychology/james-fowler-stages-of-faith.htm.

and www.americancatholic.org/Newsletters/CU/ac1087.asp

James Fowler’s chart didn’t show up. But alot of expansions of stages of faith are based on Fowler’s Stages of Faith…having six. I’ll look for another site.
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Yes, Fowler is the original source. I tend to reference Scott Peck becasue he provides a simple introduction to the concept, which hopefully leads one to Fowler. Understanding this concept of **stages of faith **has greatly increased my compassion for others.
 
Interesting reading Tony.
For me fundamentalism made my world smaller. Soon it became a cage I had to bust loose from.
 
Nicea325 said:
RESPONSE: I ignore 'beliefs/teachings of early Christians…BECAUSE IT’S NOT IN THE BIBLE!!! The BIBLE is the inerrant, infallable WORD OF GOD…not some non-canonical writings.
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newcreation2009:
BECAUSE IT IS NOT IN THE BIBLE? Show us where God TAUGHT EVERYTHING MUST BE IN THE BIBLE? Where did God say people can own a Bible? Until you show us those very words by God,then your argument is self-rebuking and contradictory.
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Nicea,

I believe that newcreation2009 has been watching Myth Busters too. I think he said
“I reject reality and insert my own”. So play nicely with the newbie.
 
Jack_Bauer said:
Nicea,

I believe that newcreation2009 has been watching Myth Busters too. I think he said
“I reject reality and insert my own”. So play nicely with the newbie.
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Eric is certainly being kind in giving him a lot of rope. Something many posters like him do not realize.
 
JustaServant said:
Eric is certainly being kind in giving him a lot of rope. Something many posters like him do not realize.
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But AHHHH! there lies the question. Is giving more rope more charitable? Once the slack is taken our sharply, it tends to snap the neck quite easily. As least with a taunt rope the slow strangle will give him more time to think before he fades away.😉
 
newcreation2009 said:
And who is getting ‘attacked’ on this site?
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Catholics.
newcreation2009 said:
All I’m doing is quoting scripture, the inerrant, infallable word of my Redeemer.
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Go read your posts and you will learn a few things. One of them being that that is not all you are doing.

Here is a small list of things you are doing:
  1. Feeding us false Catholic information (whether deliberately or not)
  2. Disregarding any corrections we make about Catholic stuff
  3. Accusing us of not reading the Bible.
  4. Accusing us of disrepecting the Bible.
  5. Belittling our intelligence.
  6. Accusing us of not thinking the Bible as inerrant.
  7. Accusing us of not believing the Bible is infallible.
Remember, that is just a short list.

Things you are not doing:
  1. Acting Christian.
  2. Being fair
  3. Being honest
  4. just quoting Scripture
  5. Respecting fellow Christians
So, to repeat the obvious answer to your question, the Catholics are the ones being attacked. We are not attacking your quotes; we are defending from an onslaught of anti-Catholicism.

You sure talk a lot about being Christ-like for someone who acts like you do. If anyone reading this believes in salvation by Faith Alone, they must be wondering how a “saved person” can be so un-loving towards his own Christian brothers and sisters.
 
kykid said:
I entered the Church through the RCIA process in 1991.

My family, which were members in the Baptist church, did not approve of my decision, but blessed me with their attendance at my baptism at the Easter Vigil. My father, however, has never approved and never fails to let me know that he disapproves.

He is a member of a very fundamentalist sect that believes that Christians should worship on the Sabbath like people of the Jewish faith. Anybody who believes otherwise is misled and headed for hell because they do not obey the 4th commandment.

I have talked with my dad until I am blue in the face, but he refuses to budge, to accept my decision and be at peace with it. I have tried everything to get my dad to see the error of his ways to no avail. He sincerely believes that anybody who belongs to a Church that worships on Sunday is mislead and its members will burn in hell. And of all churches, he feels that the Catholic Church deserves special wrath because, in his words “they have changed times and seasons”, whatever that means.

I have finally come to the conclusion that it is just a matter of ignorance that this type of attitude exists about the Church, and nothing more. This is the work of Satan, I am sure.
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Some is from satan and maybe some is from the same mentality that keeps people loyal to a particular political party when an objective investigation would convince them that their loyalty is misplaced. I have noted the similarity for a long time and it is a tough nut to crack. I was wrong about the Church for most of my life…I can admit it…some cannot.😊
 
Jack_Bauer said:
Nicea,

I believe that newcreation2009 has been watching Myth Busters too. I think he said
“I reject reality and insert my own”. So play nicely with the newbie.
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Unfortunately some people believe their own delusions of grandeur. :whacky:
 
JustaServant said:
You were born in 1963 according to you…you were an altar boy, according to you…and didn’t know about facing Presence of Christ in the Eucharist?
Hmmmmm…
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First, I want to thank Eric for giving me so much rope, and no I am NOT being sarcastic about that. Eric has given me 2 infractions already (or I guess I should say I ‘earned’ them) and I do appreciate his allowing me to continue. I am trying to be as respectful as possible, for whatever that’s worth. Secondly, I don’t even want to ‘go there’ as far as the Eucharist is concerned, but I will quote Scripture, as that is what seems to be the reason for my being allowed to continue on here. So, here, in His own words…:

Romans 6:9-11
9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him.
10 The death he died, he died to sin ONCE FOR ALL; but the life he lives, he lives to God.
11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

Hebrews 7:26-27
26 Such a high priest truly meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens.
27 Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins ONCE FOR ALL when he offered himself.

Hebrews 9:11-13
11 But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that are now already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made with human hands, that is to say, is not a part of this creation.
12 He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place ONCE FOR ALL by his own blood, thus obtaining eternal redemption.
13 The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean.

Blessings,
Tim
 
newcreation2009 said:
First, I want to thank Eric for giving me so much rope, and no I am NOT being sarcastic about that. Eric has given me 2 infractions already (or I guess I should say I ‘earned’ them) and I do appreciate his allowing me to continue. I am trying to be as respectful as possible, for whatever that’s worth. Secondly, I don’t even want to ‘go there’ as far as the Eucharist is concerned, but I will quote Scripture, as that is what seems to be the reason for my being allowed to continue on here. So, here, in His own words…:

Romans 6:9-11
9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him.
10 The death he died, he died to sin ONCE FOR ALL; but the life he lives, he lives to God.
11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

Hebrews 7:26-27
26 Such a high priest truly meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens.
27 Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins ONCE FOR ALL when he offered himself.

Hebrews 9:11-13
11 But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that are now already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made with human hands, that is to say, is not a part of this creation.
12 He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place ONCE FOR ALL by his own blood, thus obtaining eternal redemption.
13 The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean.

Blessings,
Tim
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No offense,but even the Devil quoted scripture…so quoating scripture all day does not mean you are correct in your interpretation. My advice: Look up the term exegesis.
 
Jack_Bauer said:
But AHHHH! there lies the question. Is giving more rope more charitable? Once the slack is taken our sharply, it tends to snap the neck quite easily. As least with a taunt rope the slow strangle will give him more time to think before he fades away.😉
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First, I want to thank Eric for giving me so much rope, and no I am NOT being sarcastic about that. Eric has given me 2 infractions already (or I guess I should say I ‘earned’ them) and I do appreciate his allowing me to continue. I am trying to be as respectful as possible, for whatever that’s worth. Secondly, I don’t even want to ‘go there’ as far as the Eucharist is concerned, but I will quote Scripture, as that is what seems to be the reason for my being allowed to continue on here. So, here, in His own words…:

Romans 6:9-11
9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him.
10 The death he died, he died to sin ONCE FOR ALL; but the life he lives, he lives to God.
11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

Hebrews 7:26-27
26 Such a high priest truly meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens.
27 Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins ONCE FOR ALL when he offered himself.

Hebrews 9:11-13
11 But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that are now already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made with human hands, that is to say, is not a part of this creation.
12 He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place ONCE FOR ALL by his own blood, thus obtaining eternal redemption.
13 The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean.

Blessings,
Tim
 
newcreation2009 said:
First, I want to thank Eric for giving me so much rope, and no I am NOT being sarcastic about that. Eric has given me 2 infractions already (or I guess I should say I ‘earned’ them) and I do appreciate his allowing me to continue. I am trying to be as respectful as possible, for whatever that’s worth. Secondly, I don’t even want to ‘go there’ as far as the Eucharist is concerned, but I will quote Scripture, as that is what seems to be the reason for my being allowed to continue on here. So, here, in His own words…:

Romans 6:9-11
9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him.
10 The death he died, he died to sin ONCE FOR ALL; but the life he lives, he lives to God.
11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

Hebrews 7:26-27
26 Such a high priest truly meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens.
27 Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins ONCE FOR ALL when he offered himself.

Hebrews 9:11-13
11 But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that are now already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made with human hands, that is to say, is not a part of this creation.
12 He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place ONCE FOR ALL by his own blood, thus obtaining eternal redemption.
13 The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean.

Blessings,
Tim
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Well, first of all it is against forum rules to report mod actions. Let’s hope Eric doesn’t notice.
Since you’re fond of quoting Hebrews:

Jesus in Glory Perpetually Offers the Father His Sacrifice on Our Behalf
Rev. 1 to 22 - Jesus is described as the “Lamb” 28 times in the book of Revelation. This is because Jesus emphasizes His sacrifice in heaven and in His Holy Catholic Church.

Rev. 1:13 - Jesus is clothed in heaven with a long robe and golden girdle like the Old Testament priests who offered animal sacrifices. See Exodus 28:4.

Rev. 2:17 - the spiritual manna, our Lord’s glorious body and blood, is emphasized in the heavenly feast.

Rev. 3:20 - as Priest and Paschal Lamb, our Lord shares the Eucharistic meal with us to seal His New Covenant. Through the covenant of his body and blood, we are restored to the Father and become partakers of the divine nature.

Rev. 5:6 - this verse tells us that Jesus in His glory still looks like a lamb who was slain. Also, Jesus is “standing” as though a Lamb who was slain. Lambs that are slain lie down. This odd depiction shows Jesus stands at the Altar as our eternal priest in forever offering Himself to the Father for our salvation.

Rev. 7:14 - the blood of the Lamb is eternally offered in heaven with the washing of the robes to make them white.

Rev. 14:1, Heb. 12:22 - Zion is the city where Jesus established the Eucharist and which was miraculously preserved after the destruction of Jerusalem. See also Psalms 2:6 and 132:13. It represents the union of heaven and earth, of divinity and humanity. This is why those who enter into the Eucharistic celebration on earth enter into the presence of innumerable angels, the souls of the just made perfect, Jesus the Mediator of the Covenant and His sprinkled blood, and God the Judge of all.

Rev. 19:13 - in all His glory, Jesus’ sacrifice is eternally present as He presents Himself to the Father clothed in a robe dipped in blood. Jesus’ sacrifice is the focus in heaven and in the Mass. When the Father beholds His Son, He beholds His sacrifice for humanity.

Rev. 19:9 - we are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb where we become one with Him by consuming His body and blood. This is the nuptial union of divinity and humanity.

Heb. 2:17; 3:1; 4:14; 8:1; 9:11,25; 10:19,22 - Jesus is repeatedly described as “High Priest.” But in order to be a priest, “it is necessary for [Jesus] to have something to offer.” Heb. 8:3. This is the offering of the eternal sacrifice of His body and blood to the Father.

Heb. 2:18 - although His suffering is past tense, His expiation of our sins is present tense because His offering is continual. Therefore, He is able (present tense) to help those who are tempted.

continued…
 
newcreation2009 said:
I do NEED a book, the Bible, but not to prove ‘myself’, but to proclaim the Word of the Living God. What, does your priest NOT read from the Bible in church to the congregation? Quit trying to be cute.
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You are doing a very bad job of prolaiming the Word of God, if that is what you are doing.
  1. You are proclaiming against Catholicism and not for your specific denomination.
  2. Be that as it may, preaching the Gospel with your actions is significantly more important than using words.
So, not only do you fail at the actual message, but you fail at living out what you allegedly proclaim.

And abouthe priest not reading the Bible at Mass, or about “asking” whether or not we read the Bible… That is doing one of two things:
  1. Accusing us of not reading the Bible
  2. Calling us morons for not noticing something
Stop trying to be ugly
 
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