Why is the Catholic Religion the truth?

[Carol_Coombe]

Check this out: the Eucharistic Miracle miraclerosarymission.org/lanciano.html

Slowly, you could also look at the rather argumentative thread in this Forum on Transubstantiation is a Device of Man: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=138822. Difficult.

Your comments reminded me of Gandhi, whose insight I keep in my meditation book:

I believe in the fundamental truth of all great religions of the world. I believe that they are all God-given and I believe that they were necessary for the people to whom these religions were revealed. And I believe that if only we could all of us read the scriptures of the different faiths from the standpoints of the followers of these faiths, we should find that they were at bottom all one and were all helpful to one another.

mahatma gandhi

Blessings

 

[slowly]

Check this out: the Eucharistic Miracle miraclerosarymission.org/lanciano.html

As a first thought, if God is really behind this miracle, why does the flesh look really old? Why do we require scientific analysis in a lab to infer some miracle going on? Wouldn’t it have been clearer if the flesh was still red and the blood in liquid form?

If this were truly a miracle God seems to be doing a very unconvincing job of it.

 

[Carol_Coombe]

I am not sure it is possible to argue details of miracles.

The existence of the Universe is, and always will be, a miracle. Christ performed miracles as far as we know; there have occasionally occured what seem to be miracles - not I am afraid in the instance of the miracle of Lanciano (I am not sure why so many people are referring to this miracle at this time).

I think that it is only possible to say whether one believes in miracles or not - you either believe that God turns his own, arguably immutable, laws of nature upside down for His own purposes, or you do not.

I do not, as I have explained elsewhere. But it is hard for those who believe, and those who do not believe, to talk to one another.

 

[maryj]

Most Christian denominations perform the “Eucharist” although they may call it by another name. I gather you are referring to the doctrine of transubstantiation. Except what confuses me is that I thought it was impossible to really see the blood and body of Jesus. Any scientific test even to test whether transubstantiation took place will fail and so I gather any visual inspection will also fail. So I am not sure exactly how you use the word “SEE” in this context.

Ah it’s the old physical/ spiritual debate! Let’s see if you’ll answer my question to you…How does one see Christ in other religious denominations aside from the catholic church. I’ll bet I know the answer!!!

 

[Robert902]

Other religions exclude the possibility of people that do not belong to their “true” beliefs to enter into Heaven. Like an exclusive club.

Actually Christianity falls into that catagory. John 6:44 “no one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.” John 6:47 “Most assuredly I say to you he who believes in me has eternal life.” So for all those religions who don’t believe in Jesus Christ as Lord, they will not have eternal life.

It is only the Holy Mother Church that understands and teaches that everyone in Heaven is not Catholic. A truly compassionate and just God looks at what we have been exposed to and the knowledge we have learned in this life to judge us. Our faith is inclusive no exclusive.

Vatican ll’s document lumen gentium reaffirmed the dogma, and the document humanea teaches that Catholicism is the only true religion. The Catholic church clearly teaches that if you are not a Catholic, you are out of God’s will, and consequently headed for hell. So actually your faith is exclusive, not inclusive.

God Bless,
Robert
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Eph 5:20 “Test all things, hold fast what is good.”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

[Robert902]

Are you saying that everyone that is not Catholic and does not believe in the Catholic teachings are “hard-hearted and stubborn”? Don’t you think that Protestants sincerely believe in their interpretation of the Bible just as Catholics do? And people like me that find it extremely difficult to choose between the 30000 different interpretations of the Bible, would that also be considered “hard-hearted and stubborn”?

Slowly,

The Apostle Paul wrote that “the natural mind cannot understand spiritual things”. 1 Cor 2:14
There are many translations written by “natural minds.” I know I am going to get blasted for saying this, but the Bible was not written for everyone to understand. Jesus spoke in parables for much the same reason. Probably most of those 3,000 translations were written by those who God hasn’t given the ability to understand “spiritual things”.
John 17:9 “I pray for them, I do not pray for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours.”
John 6:44 “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
2Tim 3:16-17 “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness; that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.” Notice Paul writes so that the “man of God” may be perfect." So, if you’re not a man of God, you won’t understand “spiritual Things.”
If you are having difficulty understanding “spiritual things” ask God for wisdom. You also need to be born again. “We are saved by grace through faith, not of works (things you do yourself) lest any man boast.”

God Bless,
Robert
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Eph 5:20 “Test all things, hold fast what is good.”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

[Pax]

Actually Christianity falls into that catagory. John 6:44 “no one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.” John 6:47 “Most assuredly I say to you he who believes in me has eternal life.” So for all those religions who don’t believe in Jesus Christ as Lord, they will not have eternal life.

It is only the Holy Mother Church that understands and teaches that everyone in Heaven is not Catholic. A truly compassionate and just God looks at what we have been exposed to and the knowledge we have learned in this life to judge us. Our faith is inclusive no exclusive.

Vatican ll’s document lumen gentium reaffirmed the dogma, and the document humanea teaches that Catholicism is the only true religion. The Catholic church clearly teaches that if you are not a Catholic, you are out of God’s will, and consequently headed for hell. So actually your faith is exclusive, not inclusive.

God Bless,
Robert
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Eph 5:20 “Test all things, hold fast what is good.”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Robert,

You are clearly wrong about this. You need to read “everything” the church has to say on this subject. I have just reviewed Lumen Gentium for my own personal edification and it clearly contradicts your contentions. You might try reading it…it’s very inclusive.

 

[Robert902]

Vatican ll’s document lumen gentium reaffirmed the dogma, and the document humanea teaches that Catholicism is the only true religion. The Catholic church clearly teaches that if you are not a Catholic, you are out of God’s will, and consequently headed for hell. So actually your faith is exclusive, not inclusive.

God Bless,
Robert
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Eph 5:20 “Test all things, hold fast what is good.”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Robert,

You are clearly wrong about this. You need to read “everything” the church has to say on this subject. I have just reviewed Lumen Gentium for my own personal edification and it clearly contradicts your contentions. You might try reading it…it’s very inclusive.

I have not read “everything” the church has to say on this subject, as you have suggested I do, but I have read numerous Catholic documents that clearly state that there is no salvation outside the Catholic church. I attended Catholic grammar, and Catholic High School, so I am not saying this without basis.

God Bless,
Robert
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Eph 5:20 “Test all things, hold fast what is good.”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

[Robert902]

Vatican ll’s document lumen gentium reaffirmed the dogma, and the document humanea teaches that Catholicism is the only true religion. The Catholic church clearly teaches that if you are not a Catholic, you are out of God’s will, and consequently headed for hell. So actually your faith is exclusive, not inclusive.

God Bless,
Robert
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Eph 5:20 “Test all things, hold fast what is good.”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Robert,

You are clearly wrong about this. You need to read “everything” the church has to say on this subject. I have just reviewed Lumen Gentium for my own personal edification and it clearly contradicts your contentions. You might try reading it…it’s very inclusive.

I have not read “everything” that The Catholic church has to say on this subject, but attended Catholic grammar and Catholic High School, and have read many Catholic papers and documents stating that heaven is only available to those in The Catholic church. All the priests and nuns that I have posed that question to have agreed with this teaching.

God Bless,
Robert
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Eph 5:20 “Test all things, hold fast what is good.”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

[maryj]

I am not sure it is possible to argue details of miracles.

The existence of the Universe is, and always will be, a miracle. Christ performed miracles as far as we know; there have occasionally occured what seem to be miracles - not I am afraid in the instance of the miracle of Lanciano (I am not sure why so many people are referring to this miracle at this time).

I think that it is only possible to say whether one believes in miracles or not - you either believe that God turns his own, arguably immutable, laws of nature upside down for His own purposes, or you do not.

I do not, as I have explained elsewhere. But it is hard for those who believe, and those who do not believe, to talk to one another.

How is it that you know that it is not a miracle? Or is it that you don’t believe miracles happen? I am quite curious as to your answer.

 

[maryj]

Robert,

You are clearly wrong about this. You need to read “everything” the church has to say on this subject. I have just reviewed Lumen Gentium for my own personal edification and it clearly contradicts your contentions. You might try reading it…it’s very inclusive.

I have not read “everything” that The Catholic church has to say on this subject, but attended Catholic grammar and Catholic High School, and have read many Catholic papers and documents stating that heaven is only available to those in The Catholic church. All the priests and nuns that I have posed that question to have agreed with this teaching.

God Bless,
Robert
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Eph 5:20 “Test all things, hold fast what is good.”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Than why not come home?

 

[nerfherder]

Ah it’s the old physical/ spiritual debate! Let’s see if you’ll answer my question to you…How does one see Christ in other religious denominations aside from the catholic church. I’ll bet I know the answer!!!

Ah, and I’ll bet that you will give the old It is the truth because the Church says it is the truth, and I believe the Church, and anyone who even asks a question about Catholic faith and practice must be apostate line.

Please, please engage reasonably with quite reasonable questions.

Jabulani

 

[nerfherder]

For information:

In the Dogmatic Constitution on the Church, paragraph 16, the Vatican II Council Fathers wrote: "Those who have not yet received the gospel are related to the People of God in various ways.

There is, first, that people to which the covenants and promises were made, and from which Christ was born according to the flesh (cf. Romans 9:4-5): In view of the divine choice, they are a people most dear for the sake of the fathers, for the gifts of God are without repentance (cf. Romans 11:28-29).
"But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Moslems: These profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.
"Nor is God remote from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, since he gives to all men life and breath and all things (cf. Acts 17:25-28), and since the Saviour wills all men to be saved (cf. 1 Timothy 2:4).
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through dictates of their conscience—those too, may achieve eternal salvation.
“Nor shall divine providence deny the assistance necessary for salvation to those who, without any fault of theirs, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God, and who, not without grace, strive to lead a good life.”
So the Fathers of the Council do not exclude anyone acting in good faith from the possibility of salvation.
They do go on, however, to speak of the Church’s mission from Christ to bring the gospel to all people, for Christ is the source of salvation for the whole world.

 

[Holly3278]

Jesus founded the Catholic Church. Therefore, since God Himself founded the Catholic Church, the Catholic Church is the Truth.

 

[nerfherder]

**slowly **wrote with regard to St Ephraim’s writings:

[he suggests] personal study is sufficient to come to valid conclusions about the Bible

I agree. How is that not Catholic?

It is not Catholic authority because we are instructed as follows:

Now in Catholic theology , the correct method is to study the sources of revelation, but then give the final word to the Church. He who does not follow that method is not a qualified Catholic theologian. Vatican II taught (Dei Verbum # 10): “The task of authoritatively interpreting the word of God, whether written or handed on [Scripture or Tradition], has been entrusted exclusively to the living Magisterium of the Church, whose authority is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ.”

Taken from The Basic Catholic Catechism
PART FIVE: The Apostles’ Creed IX - XII
Ninth Article: “The Holy Catholic Church; the Communion of Saints”

 

[nerfherder]

How is it that you know that it is not a miracle? Or is it that you don’t believe miracles happen? I am quite curious as to your answer.

The answer is in the post: you either believe in miracles or you do not. It is possible not to believe in fairies, leprechauns, and Santa Claus also.

One might ultimately be persuaded that there are miracles; just that at the moment one might not believe.

Jabulani

 

[nerfherder]

Other religions exclude the possibility of people that do not belong to their “true” beliefs to enter into Heaven. Like an exclusive club.

 

[nerfherder]

Jesus founded the Catholic Church. Therefore, since God Himself founded the Catholic Church, the Catholic Church is the Truth.

OH PLEASE have some respect for the intelligence and integrity of others!

 

[maryj]

Ah, and I’ll bet that you will give the old It is the truth because the Church says it is the truth, and I believe the Church, and anyone who even asks a question about Catholic faith and practice must be apostate line.

Please, please engage reasonably with quite reasonable questions.

Jabulani

Wow, it is obvious that you think I am replying with hostility. That is the problem with these sorts of forums, you don’t get to hear the tone of ones’ voice, reasonable enough. And just to clear one thing up, absolutely not, do I believe or have never, ever stated that someone is an apostate for asking questions about the catholic faith. I have asked them myself! Many of the same questions you have asked. so I do apologize for any misunderstanding, but not for asking the question, or for my responses. God Bless you on your journey.

 

[nerfherder]

There is a great deal of belief that rests on the idea of life everlasting and the concept of Heaven (and presumably Hell and Purgatory).

If we consider the eternal, infinite universe of which Earth is an infinitely small part one must ask **Is there a Heaven out there, and if there is, where is it? **

Does an **inherent uncertainty about the location of of a place called Heaven, **if not its actual existence, prevent one from being a Catholic, or even a Christian?

Is it possible to consider that God is a God of infinite love, and will therefore ***send very few of His People ***(those who are created by Hiim) to a place called Hell - a place where they are forever separated from His grace?

You will reply: No man cometh unto the Father save by me. Is it not possible and even probable that there are many roads that lead to God, as even the Dogmatic Constitution (see above) asserts?

Is it possible to consider that for the most part, ***the divine spark of being in each human will return to the Heavenly Father ***who is infinite and eternal, and will be received with great love?

***Why do we believe there is only one road? ***Other faiths share our scriptures (Jews and Muslims), our recognition of Christ’s special nature (although their perception may be different from ours - what does it matter?). They worship God/the godhead (which for all time humanity has consistently recognised in various ways) according to their own lights, and their own culture, often including aspects of Christian worship in their practice. They do not regard this as at all odd or disrespectful.

I do not mean to imply that evil-doing under the guise of religious practice should ever be tolerated. But we are enjoined by our God, by international conventions, by national constitutions, and by our own hearts, to respect the beliefs of others. I think God certainly does.

Jabulani