Ok, then the Pope shouldn’t have any problem coming out and saying so, in this instance clarification is most certainly needed and I pray that he does.
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VanitasVanitatum
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I don’t think the Pope keeps up with these sorts of things.
It’s the media taking things out of context.
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Rau
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Yes, but is it necessary to present them with so many opportunities to do so?
You don’t think the Pope realizes that there is a global scandal based upon what he has said?
I find that extremely hard to believe, if not impossible to believe.
Furthermore I wouldn’t be at all surprised if many high ranking officials/clergy within the Church directly ask for clarification…
…weather or not the Pope clarifies is a separate subject but I suspect you are aware of that.
I find that extremely hard to believe, if not impossible to believe.
Furthermore I wouldn’t be at all surprised if many high ranking officials/clergy within the Church directly ask for clarification…
…weather or not the Pope clarifies is a separate subject but I suspect you are aware of that.
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VanitasVanitatum
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They fish for these kinds of things.
I don’t think many people actually pay attention to news like this.
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StudentMI
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Too bad the Pope offers them so many opportunities to do so.
I myself don’t think the Pope will clarify anything. After all, he likes to shake things up. Too bad he’s shaken the faith of some Catholics. No progressive outcome will come from that, just more lost sheep, which some think he has a talent for ‘going after.’ I don’t see him going after such people, just dismissing them time after time as rigid and stuck up.
I just read a statement from the director of Courage to members. It was frankly sad. He reminded them they aren’t rejected and that the Church hasn’t forgotten about them, that their sacrifices mean something, etc. Unfortunately they have been forgotten by many Catholics it seems.
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VanitasVanitatum
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I don’t know, really it seems more like they are just going through what the pope says until they find something they like and can twist.
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jochoa
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When I read his statements as shared in the EWTN article, I interpret him as sharing that we should be civil with our homosexual brethren.
I don’t interpret his reference of civil unions to be that of same-sex “marriage,” especially because in a book of his in 2014, he shared that attempts to assimilate same-sex unions to that of marriage is anthropological regression.
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VanitasVanitatum
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That was before the order was supressed.
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VanitasVanitatum
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I just think that when it revived it was probably different then when it was originally founded.
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rosejmj
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Making same sex civil unions is not the same as saying they can be married in the Church or in the eyes of God. It also does not mean that one supports same sex relations… It does make sense to support it for the civil protections of those in those civil unions. Anyway, it’s not like outlawing same sex unions is going to do anything to stop same sex acts. I really don’t understand why it’s such a big deal. It really shouldn’t even be the government’s place to tell people who they can or cannot “marry” in a civil union. As long as there is no coercion or crime involved. The Church and the State should be separate
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rosejmj
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Maybe he’s contradicting some parts of the Catechism and the political stances they advocate when it comes to gay marriage… but that’s politics.
The only part of the entire topic that is doctrine and unchanging/not subject to changes in culture or opinion and considered “infallible” is that gay sexual acts are considered disordered and sinful and that two people of the same sex cannot have a sacramental marriage or be married in the eyes of God. That’s it. Any political leanings on same sex civil unions are mere opinions, and while the Church might hold a political stance on these issues, they aren’t Church doctrine and others can hold their own opinions without contradicting Church doctrine on the matter. Not everyone has to hold the same conservative Republican views on everything. Abortion is a different topic because it deals with a potential threat to human life.
A Catholic can lean more towards getting politics and government out of things like marriage etc. Most people would agree that it makes no sense to criminalize someone who commits sexual “sins“ alone or with a consenting partner because it’s just not your business and it’s not directly harming someone
The only part of the entire topic that is doctrine and unchanging/not subject to changes in culture or opinion and considered “infallible” is that gay sexual acts are considered disordered and sinful and that two people of the same sex cannot have a sacramental marriage or be married in the eyes of God. That’s it. Any political leanings on same sex civil unions are mere opinions, and while the Church might hold a political stance on these issues, they aren’t Church doctrine and others can hold their own opinions without contradicting Church doctrine on the matter. Not everyone has to hold the same conservative Republican views on everything. Abortion is a different topic because it deals with a potential threat to human life.
A Catholic can lean more towards getting politics and government out of things like marriage etc. Most people would agree that it makes no sense to criminalize someone who commits sexual “sins“ alone or with a consenting partner because it’s just not your business and it’s not directly harming someone
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StudentMI
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Until someone tries to change that…
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Rau
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Sure - so why drop bait in the water?Rau:
They fish for these kinds of things.
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rosejmj
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Well many people would like to. But I doubt it. If you do believe the Church is the truth and it does change doctrine officially then you’d have to accept it…
Or you just believe in the Church when it teaches what you want to hear. Or it’s just corrupt in which case why did you ever trust it?
Or you just believe in the Church when it teaches what you want to hear. Or it’s just corrupt in which case why did you ever trust it?
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StudentMI
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There would no longer be any reason to accept anything the Church says if that’s the case.
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rosejmj
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Yeah it would lose its credibility
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StudentMI
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It would undermine all that the Church rests upon. The same goes with any number of teachings. The idea of infallibility rests upon a few stones. Remove one and the whole thing totters.
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