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Darryl_Revok
Guest
Unfortunately, by addressing it to the extent that they did, they were responsible for transforming it from a private to a public sin.
Why is the US Catholic church so obsessed with the gay issue?
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SonOfMan
Guest
By who addressing it to the extent they did? You mean homosexuals and their supporters insisting that it be called marriage? Yes, because marriage by nature is a public institution.
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Contarini
Guest
A good question. The cynic in me says that it’s really the last of these–it’s a boundary-marking exercise intended to reinforce conservative Catholics’ sense of being the faithful.
But from there it’s easy to see that part of that boundary marking involves shoring up the commitment of those who may be wavering, or who may not want to stand up for the orthodox position in public, etc. So clearly there’s a hope that Catholics will be firmer in their commitment.
And from there it’s a small step to informing those who may not be aware of the Church teaching and the reasons for it, and perhaps even convincing some who have dissenting views. Also, it serves a useful purpose in encouraging conservative Protestants to become Catholic.
I have no problem with clear presentations of the Church’s teaching, but I agree that the focus on culture-war stuff on Catholic radio and TV is excessive and harmful, and contrasts with their timidity in addressing any aspect of Catholic teaching that isn’t compatible with right-wing Republican ideology. It scandalizes at least as many people as it encourages, I think.
I have a Catholic friend who seriously thinks that the Vatican condemned the LCWR for “focusing too much on social justice,” because that’s how the media presented it. The constant drumbeat on the so-called “non-negotiables” is laughable overkill at this point. People are clear that Catholics are against these things. They aren’t so clear on the broader context of Catholic teaching.
That’s why Pope Francis’ approach was so desperately needed.
Edwin
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catholic1seeks
Guest
Absolutely agree.
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Zoltan_Cobalt
Guest
Debate? What debate? I am merely stating facts.
What question?
Oh, I don’t think it’s over…I think it’s just getting started.
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Zoltan_Cobalt
Guest
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edwest2
Guest
The Church is “the greatest truth telling institution in the world.” Quoted part from Catholic Radio’s Al Kresta.
The world of right and wrong is very black and white. We are all individuals, but we must present the truth daily to inform the people. Lies are being spread daily to the people. We must realize that.
This issue - gay marriage - will never go away. It is a ‘tragic error’ when a small group of people make the wrong thing legal.
Ed
The world of right and wrong is very black and white. We are all individuals, but we must present the truth daily to inform the people. Lies are being spread daily to the people. We must realize that.
This issue - gay marriage - will never go away. It is a ‘tragic error’ when a small group of people make the wrong thing legal.
Ed
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catholic1seeks
Guest
Agreed.
But I disagree that the right of same-sex couples to marry is the “wrong thing.”
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Zoltan_Cobalt
Guest
I am not saying it is wrong. (Secular view) but there are strong legitimate objections.
Since the word “marriage” does not appear in the United States Constitution…I am left wondering where this “right” to same sex marriage came from. The Constitution does not defend a “right” of marriage for anyone. Has the Supreme Court created a “right”?
The definition of marriage is beyond the authority of the Supreme Court and should have been left up to the individual states.
The Constitution, however, is very clear about religion. “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…”
When the results of this latest decision and the “Freedom of Religion” clause begin to meet at loggerheads…it should really get interesting.
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neusys
Guest
quote from article:
When’s the last time a fornicator or adulterer wanted their behaviors taught to 6 year olds, had a pride parade or sued a bakery for being religious?
straights do it every day – on tv, commercials, you serve adulterers every day, abortionists – slaughter of the innocents, immodesty – bearing the breasts and privates of a women, divorce, and having children out of wedlock – they are called bastards. you serve them every day in restaurants, you sit next to them at work and church, pass then on the street, and then have the gall to accuse gay activists militants and pushing their agenda, saying their is a ‘jihad against your christian beliefs.’ BS! every one of the aforementioned is agains the ten commandments, but it’s condoned in society. in Puritan days, it would have warranted the scarlet letter and being excommunicated from the community. it makes you bigots and hypocrites. how did you act when the Jim Crow laws were lifted? did you accuse the SCOTUS as activists, as per Huckabee and Santorum, saying this is the darkest day in history, and as per Jindal, wanting to abolish the Supreme Court? Huckabee said that gays will be the demise of marriage and the closing of churches! how daft can you get? quote from the NY Times: ‘…Mr. Bursch said the institution of marriage was under siege, and that births out of wedlock had grown rapidly since 1970. Justice Sotomayor said the change was not because of “the recent gay marriages,” a point Mr. Bursch acknowledged.’ ** the demise of marriage was already in*practice long before the sexual revolution. straights said that a piece of paper – the marriage certificate – was not necessary, because it didn’t DEFINE (oops, that word again!) marriage.*instead, it heralded in ‘common law,’ thereby having free sex outside of marriage, including children born out of wedlock – they call them bastards. so gays have nothing to do with it. may i add: Justice Kagan indicated that she hoped the Supreme Court would find a right to same-sex marriage. She said the court has a role in protecting minorities even when majorities made their views known at the polls.
“We don’t live in a pure democracy,” she said. “We live in a constitutional democracy.”
The only reason for the ruling on same sex marriage is for civil issues. Like in a death of a partner who gets to say what happens to their belongings, or to be included on insurance for medical care things like that. It is by no means some ruling that supersedes any religious beliefs or practices. A church does not have to perform a marriage for it to be legal, not even when it comes to a man and a woman. Religion is just upset because it goes against their beliefs and practices that’s all. Separation between church and state (government) is for a reason.
Luke 6:42 / Matthew 7:4
You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take out the speck that is in your brother’s eye.
1 Peter 4:15d / 2 Thessalonians 3:12
1 Th 4: 11 “That you also aspire to lead a quiet life, to mind your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you, 12that you may walk properly toward those who are outside, and that you may lack nothing.”*
Peter says, “Do nothing that would give your enemies an excuse to attack your Christianity, even to the extent of meddling in other people’s business.”*Some people love to meddle in others’ affairs.*This person is a self-appointed overseer of other people’s business.*These people love to run the lives of other people.They interfere in business not their own.
*
We have more busybodies in church than murders.*We have more busybodies than thieves.*We have more busybodies than evildoers.*Do you make it a practice to stick your nose in other people’s business?Some people tell others how to raise their children when they have brats of their own.
*
When’s the last time a fornicator or adulterer wanted their behaviors taught to 6 year olds, had a pride parade or sued a bakery for being religious?
straights do it every day – on tv, commercials, you serve adulterers every day, abortionists – slaughter of the innocents, immodesty – bearing the breasts and privates of a women, divorce, and having children out of wedlock – they are called bastards. you serve them every day in restaurants, you sit next to them at work and church, pass then on the street, and then have the gall to accuse gay activists militants and pushing their agenda, saying their is a ‘jihad against your christian beliefs.’ BS! every one of the aforementioned is agains the ten commandments, but it’s condoned in society. in Puritan days, it would have warranted the scarlet letter and being excommunicated from the community. it makes you bigots and hypocrites. how did you act when the Jim Crow laws were lifted? did you accuse the SCOTUS as activists, as per Huckabee and Santorum, saying this is the darkest day in history, and as per Jindal, wanting to abolish the Supreme Court? Huckabee said that gays will be the demise of marriage and the closing of churches! how daft can you get? quote from the NY Times: ‘…Mr. Bursch said the institution of marriage was under siege, and that births out of wedlock had grown rapidly since 1970. Justice Sotomayor said the change was not because of “the recent gay marriages,” a point Mr. Bursch acknowledged.’ ** the demise of marriage was already in*practice long before the sexual revolution. straights said that a piece of paper – the marriage certificate – was not necessary, because it didn’t DEFINE (oops, that word again!) marriage.*instead, it heralded in ‘common law,’ thereby having free sex outside of marriage, including children born out of wedlock – they call them bastards. so gays have nothing to do with it. may i add: Justice Kagan indicated that she hoped the Supreme Court would find a right to same-sex marriage. She said the court has a role in protecting minorities even when majorities made their views known at the polls.
“We don’t live in a pure democracy,” she said. “We live in a constitutional democracy.”
The only reason for the ruling on same sex marriage is for civil issues. Like in a death of a partner who gets to say what happens to their belongings, or to be included on insurance for medical care things like that. It is by no means some ruling that supersedes any religious beliefs or practices. A church does not have to perform a marriage for it to be legal, not even when it comes to a man and a woman. Religion is just upset because it goes against their beliefs and practices that’s all. Separation between church and state (government) is for a reason.
Luke 6:42 / Matthew 7:4
You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take out the speck that is in your brother’s eye.
1 Peter 4:15d / 2 Thessalonians 3:12
1 Th 4: 11 “That you also aspire to lead a quiet life, to mind your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you, 12that you may walk properly toward those who are outside, and that you may lack nothing.”*
Peter says, “Do nothing that would give your enemies an excuse to attack your Christianity, even to the extent of meddling in other people’s business.”*Some people love to meddle in others’ affairs.*This person is a self-appointed overseer of other people’s business.*These people love to run the lives of other people.They interfere in business not their own.
*
We have more busybodies in church than murders.*We have more busybodies than thieves.*We have more busybodies than evildoers.*Do you make it a practice to stick your nose in other people’s business?Some people tell others how to raise their children when they have brats of their own.
*
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Zoltan_Cobalt
Guest
But that does not make it right. Adding another deviant behavior to the list does nothing to improve society.
This is why people like Kagan have no place on the Supreme Court. The U.S. Supreme Court exists to interpret the Constitution. It has no authority to find or create “rights”
The Constitution as written protects minorities…not the Court.
Oh, and BTW we live in a Constitutional REPUBLIC. Not a constitutional democracy.
All those rights and benefits have been available to same sex couples since 2009.
So a Catholic School can rely on this “Separation between church and state” when it refuses to hire a gay teacher because he/she is married???
Catechism of the Catholic Church
2357… Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.” They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.
The ultimate failure in pastoral care is to mislead people by encouraging them to remain in sin or fail to call them to repentance and renewal…
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phil19034
Guest
OK, you need to explain this one slowly to me.
How are all homosexual acts not the same?
Would you agree at least in terms of heterosexual acts… masturbation, fornication, oral sex, and “doing everything but intercourse” … that they are all sinful?
A person is either chaste or they are not (regardless of their sexual orientation).
C
catholic1seeks
Guest
No that is the issue and the point: I do not agree that each and every homosexual act is intrinsically sinful. Something like murder is: By definition, it is the deliberate killing of an innocent. No ifs ands or buts.
But some homosexual acts, like some heterosexual acts, can be lustful, selfish, and harmful to other persons. But not all are. I do not accept that homosexual acts are sinful just because they are not open to new life/procreation, and I do not believe that that is what Paul or anything biblical writer meant when discussing homosexual activity.
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edwest2
Guest
I disagree with certain comments made in post # 173. I could get guardianship of the guy down the street and legal power of attorney. I could make all kinds of decisions for him. Or he could write a will leaving everything to me or others should I die before he does.
I think the dissenting voices regarding the recent Supreme Court decision need to be heard:
cbsnews.com/news/dissenting-opinions-in-the-supreme-courts-same-sex-marriage-ruling/
Ed
I think the dissenting voices regarding the recent Supreme Court decision need to be heard:
cbsnews.com/news/dissenting-opinions-in-the-supreme-courts-same-sex-marriage-ruling/
Ed
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edwest2
Guest
The Church clearly disagrees.
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20030731_homosexual-unions_en.html
Ed
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phil19034
Guest
OK, let’s forget homosexual acts for a moment.
Would you agree at least in terms of heterosexual acts outside of marriage… fornication, oral sex, and “doing everything but intercourse” … that they are all sinful?
And that masturbation is always sinful and that anal sex between husband and wife is sinful?
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Zoltan_Cobalt
Guest
I assume you mean “acts” like holding hands, kissing and hugging. You know, normal heterosexual “acts”.??
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Lucretius
Guest
The early Christians understood marriage to by about procreation, union, fidelity and resistance against concupiscence. To them, rationally speaking, homosexual activity showed a lack of self control over the passions: “he who sins is a slave to sin.” Furthermore, the lack of natural compatibility showed even more how sinful it was. Why do you think the Fathers, as well as St. Paul himself, used the word “unnatural?” The fact that that term was used by them indicates that your theory is without basis. They said that homosexuality was unnatural.
Moreover, the Fathers condemn prostitution and fornication separate from homosexuality, so this is evidence that they were not condemning just how homosexual behavior was practiced in their time, but homosexuality in itself.
Finally, to end all doubts, you are rejecting directly how Tradition and the Magisterium then and today have always understood sodomy.
From my point of view, you seem to think that marriage is only about union and fidelity, which means that a gay couple who are monogamous and faithful are virtuous. However, as I shown above, marriage is also about procreation. And not only do gay couple not reproduce, they cannot naturally procreate, and so their relationship is still unnatural.
Christi pax,
Lucretius
St. Maria Goretti
Christi pax,
Lucretius
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edwest2
Guest
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catholic1seeks
Guest
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