Why is voting for Biden a mortal sin?

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I did see Cardinal Tobin’s remarks, but when asked for his reasons the Cardinal clammed up. I don’t understand why Biden supporters can’t just provide their reasoning? If it really is so straightforward that he has no doubts, why not give us his reasons?
Is it climate? Race? Trump’s uncouth remarks? Doubts of competency? Does he believe in the Russia collusion mess? Are the president’s pro-life efforts insufficient for him? Or perhaps the Cardinal dislikes the immigration policy of the US. If he won’t give us his reasoning, how are we supposed to follow his example?
 
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PaulinVA said:
Well, I guess that’s better than the posters comparing me to someone who’d support HItler, but just as offending.
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Could be over-the-top polemics.
On the other hand, you could also consider the real objective matter at hand, which is the mass slaughter of millions of human beings.

It seems ironic that sin is by nature the cause of chaos, division, and disorder. And yet we seem to be shocked when discourse is confrontational, blunt, and impassioned.
How can you be shocked when the slaughter of millions of human beings smacks you right in the face?
The alternative is to be like the German burghers who filed past the piles of corpses saying "how could we have known it was so bad?

This is maybe the worst consequence of sin; the moral numbness it engenders, whereby human beings become talking points for political platforms.
 
whatistrue said:
Would you mind rephrasing that so it is coherent?
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You mean this? Really?
goout said:
You might want to consider that;
in the US and much of western culture, the crimes against humanity are well underway to the most horrific degree imaginable,
and at the same time,
you still have the option to vote for or against certain policies and platforms that promote the barbarism plaguing us.

I just thought this stood out in juxtaposition to the picture of helplessness that you portrayed.
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A very significant number of Catholics have had, or were complicit in abortion themselves, and have not yet reformed their consciences. Many have been sold on the idea that it’s “modern” to follow the “smart set”; the movers and shakers in the tech industry, Hollywood, mainstream media.

No doubt many expect some kind of government benefit to come their way, even though that has been a vain expectation for decades.

And many do because “grandpa did”, or “it’s the Irish thing” or other cultural things.
 
Towards the end of the panel discussion in which Cardinal Tobin was participating, he mentioned in a favorable way the concept of a consistent ethic of life, the seamless garment argument promoted by Cardinal Bernardin, which I notice many on CAF reject. If I had to surmise, I would say that this is why Cardinal Tobin apparently favors Biden over Trump, or at least understands why many of us would.

This is me talking now. President Trump pays lip-service to many issues which are important to us Catholics, but his actual policies of big tax cuts for the wealthy while underfunding the social safety net, deregulation which threatens the environment and worker safety, and an arguably cruel immigration policy, to name but a few off the top of my head, all contribute to why I do not consider him particularly prolife. Based on a consistent ethic of life, with which you may or may not agree (although Pope Francis also seems to favor it), I think Trump is in too many ways antilife. Plus he lies a lot. More than any politician in recent memory, I can’t really trust anything he says or promises, and that’s saying a lot!
 
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christofirst said:
Towards the end of the panel discussion in which Cardinal Tobin was participating, he mentioned in a favorable way the concept of a consistent ethic of life, the seamless garment argument promoted by Cardinal Bernardin, which I notice many on CAF reject. If I had to surmise, I would say that this is why Cardinal Tobin apparently favors Biden over Trump, or at least understands why many of us would.

This is me talking now. President Trump pays lip-service to many issues which are important to us Catholics, but his actual policies of big tax cuts for the wealthy while underfunding the social safety net, deregulation which threatens the environment and worker safety, and an arguably cruel immigration policy, to name a few off the top of my head, all contribute to why I do not consider him particularly prolife. Based on a consistent ethic of life, with which you may or may not agree (although Pope Francis also seems to favor it), I think Trump is in too many ways antilife. Plus he lies a lot. More than any politician in recent memory, I can’t really trust anything he says or promises, and that’s saying a lot!
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I find it hard to believe that either political party is underfunding the social safety net, when billions of dollars are sent out every day in benefits. In fact, just recently, billions of dollars went out in covid benefits to the American people.

Are there different ways of doing welfare? Yes. Are some more effective than others? Sure. Is Trump an insensitive boorish inauthentic man? Yea, I think he is.
Still, hard decisions are at hand and we have to make them based on hard realities.
 
christofirst said:
I can’t really trust anything he says or promises, and that’s saying a lot!
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Except that he has accomplished most of what he promised in his 2016 campaign. To the extent he didn’t, he was opposed all the way by the Dems who now even oppose Obama’s actions if Trump does the same thing, so rabid are they in their opposition to his prolife actions.

Cardinal Tobin’s point of view was rejected by the majority of U.S. bishops.
christofirst said:
Cardinal Tobin apparently favors Biden over Trump
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And more’s the pity. In doing so, he endorses the support of abortion. He should not have allowed his political partisanship to do that.
goout said:
I find it hard to believe that either political party is underfunding the social safety net, when billions of dollars are sent out every day in benefits. In fact, just recently, billions of dollars went out in covid benefits to the American people.
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Allow me to dissent a bit. When it comes to the poorest of the poor; the disabled poor, neither party has done anything since Reagan’s Earned Income Credit. Even when the Dems controlled government totally, they did absolutely nothing for the poor. Middle class welfare for political gain, yes. Aid to the poor, zero.
 
christofirst said:
This is me talking now. President Trump pays lip-service to many issues which are important to us Catholics, but his actual policies of big tax cuts for the wealthy while underfunding the social safety net, deregulation which threatens the environment and worker safety, and an arguably cruel immigration policy, to name but a few off the top of my head, all contribute to why I do not consider him particularly prolife.
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So we have two viable choices. A party that will ensure that you can be killed before you’re born and the other party will make sure you will be born but through their policies make life so difficult that you wish you were never born.

Not much of a choice is there?

P.S. There is the death penalty so there may be an out.
 
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Thanks for the response. I understand the seamless garment, and the importance of a consistent ethic of life…I would merely submit that the fundamental principles that allow us to have any acceptable ethic in Catholic social teaching rest primarily on human dignity and the right to life. Therefore, it is impossible that any candidate who openly supports mass murder is more consistently pro-life than his opponent. Even though we are called to live consistently in Christ’s love, the issues do not have the same import or weight, as the USCCB clarified in their document.
Now, Trump could be lying about his opposition to abortion, or paying lip-service, or incompetent to actually do what he’s promising. These are good points that I’ll take under consideration.
However, to give him credit where its due, he has brokered historic peace deals and seeks to bring out soldiers home, which are two things that Pope Francis specifically mentioned as a criticism of America a few years back.
I think we have a disagreement about economic policy as well. I think Trump has done more to help the poor in this nation than any other recent president. But on that matter I think we are free to disagree with each other.
Much of the supposed dishonesty of Trump comes down to journalists framing things negatively, unfortunately. They like to say that he’s lying when he’s actually mostly right, but the media focuses on the inaccuracies more than the general meaning of his points.
I didn’t mean to pounce on you! A few other people also replied to your post at the same time.
 
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Sarcelle said:
make life so difficult that you wish you were never born.
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This is too pessimistic. Millions of people have flouted the law and risked death by land and sea to come here to enjoy what too many Americans take for granted. The waiting lists are still long and, but for Mexican and American preventive measures and the hazards at sea, millions would come in this country constantly.
 
Truth be told, Trump is for abortion in certain cases therefore he is for abortion. How can anyone vote for him in good conscience?
 
This is reflective of my current situation.

I lost my job due to COVID and I am at the moment wondering if I will ever be employed again.

I find it currently very difficult to be hopeful.
 
Anyone that thinks an administration change will solve our nation’s problems needs to re-examine the situation. We’ve got decades of rot and corruption destroying this country.

Honestly, if we had a saint win the Presidency, they’d probably get very little accomplished and be despised by most of the ruling class. They might not even make a full term…

We’ve got trouble…
 
Sarcelle said:
This is reflective of my current situation.

I lost my job due to COVID and I am at the moment wondering if I will ever be employed again.

I find it currently very difficult to be hopeful.
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I understand, and I sympathize with you. I really do. It’s terrible to be without a job. Nobody has all the answers, but I do think this country would do well to improve protection for the elderly and immunodeficient, and let everybody else go back to work as before. Where I live, labor is always in short supply, but it’s not true everywhere. But I strongly suspect nearly everywhere would be better off if we just accepted it that Covid might give me a headache and a fever for two days and probably nothing more. Covid is not Ebola.

And while I don’t know what your job was, I would like to see a second Trump term with even more stringent reductions of imports from China in order to generate more jobs here. I would like to see greater enforcement of immigration laws to keep the big companies from using immigrants to hold wages down.

I will remember you in my prayers. I promise.
 
Nevertheless, a choice will be made, and we Catholics will contribute to that choice, and hopefully with a well-formed conscience. The way I see it, pessimism or fatalism shouldn’t prevent us from working toward and hoping for the best
(the wave is still forming. join us.)
 
Whatever the outcome of the election, I’m praying for you and for all the unemployed. I thank God every day for my pension which allows to take care of my elderly mother without worrying too much about finances, but I certainly know what it’s like to worry about finances! God bless and help you.
 
christofirst said:
The way I see it, pessimism or fatalism shouldn’t prevent us from working toward and hoping for the best
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Short of a supernatural enlightenment or a catastrophic regime change, no I don’t believe we can change much at this point.

I am preparing for the worst.
 
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