- I do not agree with that at all. That is the matter under discussion, yet to be proved. So leave that open please.
“Yet to be proved?” It’s been proved beyond a reasonable doubt and believed for 2000 years. The apostles believed it, the disciples of the apostles believed it, the earliest Church Fathers believed it…
“Yet to be proved?” Well, it’s Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, all of whom were contemporaries of Christ, two of whom knew Christ personally during His earthly ministry, one of whom was right there at the cross…versus Mohammad, who came 600 years later, didn’t know Christ at all, wasn’t there when it happened, and is the only real verification for his own account. Right now, the odds aren’t looking good for Mohammad.
Why do you call it vague?
Congratulations on quote mining, because I explained “why” in detail. Thankfully you responded to the rest in another post.
I beg your pardon and tell you that the idea that it was some other person (and not Jesus) on the cross originated from some of your christian saints.
Quote one.
That was introduced into Muslim beliefs. No where in the Quran or hadith, it is suggested that some one else was on the cross.
Then please quote me hadith that outlines what really happened at the crucifixion. Of course, if you do so, you’ll violate the argument you’ve made many times before regarding absolutely positively no use of the hadith sources.
I might also add there is no “added” interpretation of what happened at the crucifixion within Christianity. We all believe that Jesus was crucified, died, buried, and rose again. No Christian denomination agrees with this.
God had accepted Jesus prayer to avoid the cup. So God avoided that cup by some means. Why don’t you agree?
I don’t agree because that is incredibly easy to refute by looking at scripture. I pointed that out in a previous post, which I linked to you. You simply refuse to address the argument, most likely because you realize that how weak an argument it is.
Every one standing near the site of Crucifixion had to say that Jesus was dead. Had any one said that he was alive, it would have been a disaster for Jesus. They would have broken his legs too and killed him.
As I pointed out, they did do something to ensure He was dead:
they stabbed him with a spear. You are blatantly ignoring arguments now and simply repeating yourself.
Then you know very well that he was not buried properly. he was put in a room and a physician (Nicodemus) had come with a 100 pound weight of medicines to help cure the wounds of Jesus. Aloes was a part of those herbs which is used to cure the wounds. Jesus was seen walking and talking after few days. It is your duty o explain all that. But no one will believe your story.
Actually, the only one who has to explain anything is yourself, because your story, once again, is incompatible with scripture as well as knowledge of what happened.
For one, Nicodemus was not a physician, he was a Pharisee (John 3:1) - no where in scripture does it say he was a physician or even hints at that.
And what wounds did Jesus have? He was scourged, which meant that He had strips of flesh torn from His body and He was bleeding profusely. He had a crown of thorns that pierced His face and caused further bleeding. He was mentally and physically exhausted from carrying His cross to Golgotha and being jeered at all the way. He was nailed to the cross, which meant railroad tack-sized nails being driven through his hands and feet, tearing muscle and flesh and causing further blood loss. He was up there for hours, which meant some extended damage. Finally, He was pierced in the side with a spear designed for killing human beings. All this Christ suffered…and we are supposed to believe some “aloes” administered by earthly “physicians” are going to magically cure all this? Not to mention that nowhere is it mentioned Christ is buried improperly: He was wrapped in a tight burial shroud then stuck in pitch dark without food, water, or air for up to 72 hours. Again, we are expected to believe, especially after suffering from all his wounds, that someone would survive this?
This also, once again, ignores what I pointed out before: every single gospel account states that Christ
was dead. It doesn’t state He
looked dead, or that He
fainted…they clearly state He
was dead.
Muslims do not support any Marcion. We do not even know him.
Then ask your Muslim apologists to stop citing him as a source of early Christianity. I also sincerely doubt you individually don’t know him - your past history of “not knowing people” has been proven dubious.
Again you are adnitting that there were some christians who had the knowledge that Jesus had not died on the cross.
Are you even reading what I’m saying? Are you sincerely reading what people write to you? I’m suddenly reminded of what quote from the show
Frasier where the title character is talking to a man who is clearly not on the same wave length as him. Finally fed up, Frasier looks at a man and asks sweetly, “What color is the sky in your world?”
I did not admit any such thing as you claim. You stated the early Gnostics were Christians, I pointed out that they couldn’t even be considered Jews or Muslims, and that they would find themselves more at homes with the pagans Mohammad fought against than the Muslims who sided with him. You haven’t responded to that, you just keep repeating, “Ha! You said they were Christians,” even though I think everyone on this forum can see that’s clearly not what I said.
Well, then, carry on my good man, carry on!!!