Why Islam denies the crucifixion of Christ

[KathleenGee]

Planten,

We believe on One God.

You are the ones who say we believe in multiple gods. that is idolatry and the price one must pay for idolatry in Islam is very, very bad…

All I can tell you is that when we worship…we do address the relational nature of God…which is love…you can’t love nobody…you have to have others to be in love…

That the essence of belief is as one…I keep referring to the baptism of Jesus and the Theophany of the Heavenly Father saying over Jesus He is His beloved son with the Holy Spirit visible above Jesus… His spirit.

Muslims believe in God and His Spirit. Bingo…that is two Gods, then. Right?

And if you are going to understand Christianity, you will never understand it or get it right using foreign sources…

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

Now I can see why Muslims use the non sequitor strawman…because people will fall for it. :doh2:

 

[planten]

Now I can see why Muslims use the non sequitor strawman…because people will fall for it. :doh2:

B W, again no reply from you to your three god beliefs. Please give some understandable rely.

 

[Nine_Two]

B W, again no reply from you to your three god beliefs. Please give some understandable re[ly.

He did give you a reply. He said you’d already admitted you’ve never tried to understand the Christian perspective and admitted you just follow the Koran whatever it says.

So when are you going to answer my proof that the Koran has been wrong, and is therefore not infallible?
[/quote]

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

I simply love how Planten ignores virtually every response to his arguments, refuses to answer questions relevant to the topic, yet demands people respond to his non sequitors (even when they have, as Nine Two pointed out). Is it any wonder few Christians on the board take him seriously?

 

[Nine_Two]

I simply love how Planten ignores virtually every response to his arguments, refuses to answer questions relevant to the topic, yet demands people respond to his non sequitors (even when they have, as Nine Two pointed out). Is it any wonder few Christians on the board take him seriously?

However my point to the Koran being wrong in the past is relevent, since it means that it is not an authoritive document when discussing other religions, and thus Planten has no acceptable reason to accept what the Koran says over what individuals of the religion in question say.

 

[EagleWatch]

E W, good approach but irrelevent. What would you call the combination of these three things body life and spirit?? Shall we call it a body??

Okay, my body is a body.
My life is not a body.
My spirit is not a body.

Or I can say:

My body is not God.
My life is not God.
My spirit is not God.

But in your case:
Your father is God.
Your son (Jesus) is God.
Your holy spirit is God.

So all three are separately, independenyly Gods and then at the same time three together are also God (One God). So your example does not apply with Trinity of body.

I would suggest you to think following way if you ever want to see the truth genuinely – of course, the depth and full explanation of this mysterious existence of God is beyond my intellect being a creation. But this can definitely help understand the Trinity to some extend.

My spirit is part of me
My body my image is part of me
My life/power is part of me
All these three together is my complete personality.

Thus
Father is Spirit – part of **God **(No one has seen Father except the Son – through Son Father is seen)
Son is Image - part of God
(Jesus - is the word of God originated from God thus called Son)
**Holy Spirit **is Life/Power - part of God
(the life or power of God originated from God)

All these Father, Son and Holy Spirit together make the complete personality of one and only God. They does not represent 3 different Gods.

When you speak to me, you are seeing my image (body) only, not the spirit of mine. No one has seen my spirit, but you know my spirit, that it is me looking at my image-body. What helps me write these thing is the life in me. My spirit living in my image(body) using my life to write these things to you.

Thus Father lived in His image Son Jesus Christ using **Holy Spirit **to do the things, He has done on this earth.

(Remember He has left his heavenly status to be a mere man to represent Mankind that is why you always see Jesus praying to Father in heaven and using Holy Spirit for his miraculous works – thus showing us how to live as a human being on earth. So he refers all His actions, teachings attributed to Father in heaven. The true Christians are doing the same thing even today, they do the miracles with Holy Spirit by praying to Father in Heaven in the name of Jesus Christ. Finally Jesus fulfilled the Mosaic law and lived a sinless life and became sacrifice for the entire world. Whoever accepts his sacrifice is entering into eternal life)

Here are some of Jesus’ own words quoted below for you reference. (I would suggest you to read the Gospels with prayers. So that you will be able to see the Truth in it)

John:5:19
Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
John:5:23
That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
John:5:30
I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
John:8:28
Then said Jesus unto them, **When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.**John:10:30,31
I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
John:14:6,7
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

My brethrens in this forum, who are in Jesus Christ, had written some excellent posts and I am happy about them and pray for them. They have given enough and more for any person to discern the Truth form deceit.

Finally you can wake up a person who is asleep. But you cannot wake up a person pretending sleep.

God Bless

 

[sedonaman]

I simply love how Planten ignores virtually every response to his arguments, refuses to answer questions relevant to the topic, yet demands people respond to his non sequiturs …

That’s because Islam does not accord others what it demands for itself. This is proof that there is no Golden Rule in Islam.

 

[cthulhubryan]

Thus Spake Planten:

Do you believe in Jesus as your God?
Do you believe in Holy Ghost as God?
Do you believe in the Father as God?

If you believe in all of above then you do believe that there are three gods. That is settled.
If there is no three gods then what is Trinity??

Planten,

There is no need to play the game of fools. You are surely more intelligent than that.

To answer your questions:

Do you believe in Jesus as God? YES
Do you believe in Holy Ghost as God? YES
Do you believe in the Father as God? YES
If you believe in all of above then you do believe that there are three gods. Nope.
Planten you are artificially limiting God. I believe that this is heresy. There is but One God (his name is NOT Allah) He manifests Himself in three Persons of one Substance (Father, Son and Holy Spirit)

It is not easy to comprehend, thus it is referred to as a Divine Mystery. Man cannot fully comprehend the mind nor the nature of God.We must rely on faith and the things He teaches us through His Church.

This is how we KNOW that Christ was crucified and was raised from the dead by the Father. This is also how we KNOW that none come to God save through Jesus unless you happen to be a Jew.

Islam, clearly a false religion, teaches that Jesus did not die on the cross but that some poor sod who looked like Jesus did. Islam also teaches that Jesus was a prophet. Islam also teaches that God did not truly reveal Himself until Mahomet found Him in the pagan worship of the Arabs.

Hmmm, If it looks like dog poop, smells like dog poop and came from the butt of a dog, better not step in it.

 

[KathleenGee]

Planten,

Your little group of Plantens continually come on here asking the same questions, playing the same games…it is not honest…asking the question over and over, playing musical chairs at the computer.

Stop wasting our time…May be it is time now you leave…

 

[jakasaki]

In all honesty, I have no love for plantens posts and his asinine way of twisting issues, but to tell a member on this forum to “leave” is just down right nasty & rude.

You can choose to block the member/user and or you can choose not to answer by ignoring his/hers posts.

But to tell any member on this CAF forum regardless of their faith or lack thereof to leave is not right.

I myself might be harsh on islam but I would not dare to tell any of our muslim members to leave the board.

 

[whatevergirl]

B W, again no reply from you to your three god beliefs. Please give some understandable re[ly.

*This might be a poor analogy, but here goes. I am ONE person–but I am a wife, mother and most importantly, child of God. I can be numerous other ‘‘things’’ also. God has three primary ‘‘personas’’ making up ONE God: Father, Son & Holy Spirit. They are not three separate personas operating without the other–they all make up One God. They are not three ‘‘gods,’’ so to speak. Just my offerings to the discussion. *
[/quote]

 

[whatevergirl]

*To answer the question as to ‘why Islam denies the crucifixion of Christ’ is complex, and not so complex. Watered down in its simplest form…If someone can convince followers of Christ to not follow Him, by serving up an ‘‘alternative’’ ending to the story of Christ’s life…and make Him appear as nothing more than a prophet…then, you have a greater chance of swaying people away from Christianty. That was Mohammed’s sole purpose, to sway people away from Christianty. If he were to teach that Christ died for everyone’s sins…Islam would fail to exist. He wouldn’t be considered a ‘great prophet,’ then.

This probably was already said, I have not read through this entire thread. *

 

[KathleenGee]

I am new to forums…

But also think it right to call on people when they are deceitful and wasting people’s time.

 

[dzheremi]

I don’t want Planten to leave. I want Planten to eventually listen to the corrections we try to make to his misunderstandings of Christianity (which are not really “his” anyway, since they’re inherited from the Qur’an and Muhammad’s own severe misunderstanding of Christianity). It may never happen, but then if he were to leave it would DEFINITELY not happen. Why close a door like that just because he’s afraid (or too prideful, or whatever) to walk through it? Leave it open. Planten is made in God’s image, too, and is one of God’s children, even if it is offensive to his ideology.

 

[jakasaki]

I am new to forums…

But also think it right to call on people when they are deceitful and wasting people’s time.

I believe our only responsibility to CAF is to report “abuse” if we see/read it.

Frankly out of the 3300+ planten has put out here, he has given me many belly laughs and I like that. He is such a silly boy sometimes

I don’t find nor have I ever found plantens posts “deceitful” ---- misguided, misunderstood, naive, ignorant, oh yes indeed, but “deceitful”, I do not believe that is his style.

I for one would like to see planten continue on here.

We have lost many good muslim posters through time and pretty soon there won’t be any islam discussion threads.

And yes, we’ve had some not so good muslim posters, but hey, it makes the site interesting.

Have a good day KathleeGee!

 

[planten]

This might be a poor analogy, but here goes. I am ONE person–but I am a wife, mother and most importantly, child of God. I can be numerous other ‘‘things’’ also. God has three primary ‘‘personas’’ making up ONE God: Father, Son & Holy Spirit. They are not three separate personas operating without the other–they all make up One God. They are not three ‘‘gods,’’ so to speak. Just my offerings to the discussion.

Dear whatevergirl, thanks for advice. But your last sentence (made bold above), is it right?. You mean that son is not God. Holy ghost is not God. If that is your belief then I have no problem about that kind of Trinity. Thanks.

 

[dzheremi]

Planten, you know that’s not what she means. She means that they are not three SEPARATE Gods, but ONE GOD, united in the undivided Holy Trinity. This is what we ALL mean, because this is orthodox Christian understanding of the subject, as it has been since the days of the apostles.

 

[whatevergirl]

Dear whatevergirl, thanks for advice. But your last sentence (made bold above), is it right?. You mean that son is not God. Holy ghost is not God. If that is your belief then I have no problem about that kind of Trinity. Thanks.

*Hi planten–no, I meant that Christians are not polytheistic. One God. Three personas WITHIN one God. I have muslim friends from back in Pittsburgh where we lived for a while, we used to go 'round and 'round with these discussions… LOL I would be happy to entertain more discussion with you, if you’d like. We may not agree, but we can do it with charity.

Question for you…do you believe in the Son of God, and the Holy Spirit? *

 

[planten]

*To answer the question as to ‘why Islam denies the crucifixion of Christ’ is complex, and not so complex. Watered down in its simplest form…If someone can convince followers of Christ to not follow Him, by serving up an ‘‘alternative’’ ending to the story of Christ’s life…and make Him appear as nothing more than a prophet…then, you have a greater chance of swaying people away from Christianty. *

But why should any one do such things?? Perhaps an enemy of Jesus would do such thing. I feel that christians do not recognise their enemies and the enemies of Jesus.

That was Mohammed’s sole purpose, to sway people away from Christianty.