Why it is Dangerous Not to Believe in Purgatory

[distracted]

I guess the dividing line is that we see being “purged” as already completed by the death of Christ (but keep in mind that I am not saying that catholics don’t think that). Now, that doesn’t mean we have a license to run around like roosters in a hen house, but it does mean we should and are called to live a life of obedience to Christ BECAUSE of His purging of our sins. I guess we could say it like this: if we are already purged why do we need to get purged again?

We are only purged by Christ when we do (successfully) all that He asks… Jesus said to give up everything and follow him (St. Luke 10:17, etc.)… How many people realy do this? He also said many other difficult things… He said that the way to Heaven is narrow and there are 'few who find it"… I don’t know where you get the idea that we are “already purged” just because Jesus died on a Cross… we have to Apply that Gift to our lives, to every part of it… mind/heart/ soul… and body… We cannot serve Christ AND the world… and most christians, i hate to sya… do that these days… (myself included… SOmetimes… but i keep struggling along…)

BTW, did you by chance see the question I asked you at the beginning of the thread? I’m not sure if you were able to take a look at it yet, but if you could would you shoot me a response? Thanks.

i have read all posts… or thought i did… don’t know what question you are referring to…

 

[rbarcia]

that doesn’t answer the question of where they were until the Resurrection?

Before Resurrection, Jesus told the repentant criminal on the cross that he would be with Jesus in paradise that day (2 days before the resurrection).

Luke 23:43
Jesus answered him, “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.”

The parable of the rich man and Lazarus shows a picture of heaven and hell and nothing in between. This parable was told before the cross or resurrection.

Elijah was in Heaven

2 Kings 2:11
And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

 

[a_mirror_dimly]

many scriptures are easy to understand. A child can understand maybe 75% of the New Testament… But wahat about the other 25%? should we just throw it out if we don’t understand it? And besides, now that i think about it, i think only about 60% is “easy” to understand… but i guess the exact % is not important…

The Catholic Church also teaches that to whatever extent Protestants agree w/ Catholics, they are orthodox in their beliefs… Most christian churches are considered by the RCC as being part of Her… The only ones that are not part of the Catholic Church (albeit indirectly & imperfectly) are the mormons, jw’s and various ther cults…

My main point is that man’s ability to understand truth is not as… “messed up” as some tend to imply…

Well, given that Purgatory isn’t plainly stated anywhere in the Bible, how can we trust that what seems a sensible interpretation is correct? Basically, it’s sounds a lot like “it can be okay to apply your own logic to scripture, but only if you come to conclusions the Catholic Church has already put out anyway”. In which case it’s still not personal logic that your relying on to reach the conclusion, it’s teaching, with logic brought in afterward constrained by the fact that it cannot seriously consider any conclusions that may disagree with Catholic teaching.

As I said before, it sounds like you’re saying “you can trust man’s logic, but only if you’re a Catholic coming to Catholic conclusions”.

 

[distracted]

Before Resurrection, Jesus told the repentant criminal on the cross that he would be with Jesus in paradise that day (2 days before the resurrection).

Luke 23:43
Jesus answered him, “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.”

b].

for one thing, there is no description of what this “paradise” is really all about.

When i am with Jesus @ the Blessed Sacrament (Real Presence, which is in the Church 24/7) i am also with the souls in Purgatory… (just found that out recently)… No wonder (i told myself) i sometimes felt so… in pain… So anyhow, when i am there, i am in Purgatory also… (when i am “still and know that [He] is God”). But as painful as that experience sometimes is…(it gets better the longer i stay…) it is Paradise compared to the Big Three (the World, the Flesh and the Devil) :nope: :banghead: uch:

 

[distracted]

Yeah, you’re right! Thanks for passing the enlightenment to me!
**
I love Faustina! She’s my role model!**

Though…I hope you meant HELL and not HEAVEN above. “there is no happiness in Heaven at all” Man…if that is the case, I do not want to go to Heaven! LOL!!!

oh wow… I’m so sorry for that typo… I am a little stressed but didn’t think it was THAT bad…

i usually re-read my posts before submitting…

Well, my eyes have been bad since birth…

and i am pretty “far from birth” right now…

 

[distracted]

The parable of the rich man and Lazarus shows a picture of heaven and hell and nothing in between. This parable was told before the cross or resurrection.

.

actually, some scholars think that the rich man may have been in Purgatory… because he had great love for his brothers and didn’t want them to go where he was. There is no love in Hell…

 

[distracted]

Well, given that Purgatory isn’t plainly stated anywhere in the Bible, how can we trust that what seems a sensible interpretation is correct? Basically, it’s sounds a lot like “it can be okay to apply your own logic to scripture, but only if you come to conclusions the Catholic Church has already put out anyway”. In which case it’s still not personal logic that your relying on to reach the conclusion, it’s teaching, with logic brought in afterward constrained by the fact that it cannot seriously consider any conclusions that may disagree with Catholic teaching.

As I said before, it sounds like you’re saying “you can trust man’s logic, but only if you’re a Catholic coming to Catholic conclusions”.

Well, i am sorry if that is waht i sound like to you. I was far from thinking anything remotely like that. I am Cathlic because i have studied history and know that Christ esstablished ONE church. I know that that Church is Cathlic because, for one thing, it teaches evertying Christ would teach if he lived today. for example, the RCC is always against abortion, against artificial b-control… against homosexuality… I could go on and on. The RCC respects human life (calls it “sacred”). Other churches do not always do that… They teach that sometimes abortion is, while not the best thing, at least “Ok in some situations like rape or incest.”
There are many reasons as to why i know the Catholic Church is the one Christ founded on Earth… but both your time and mine is limited…
As per usual, my posts are misinterpreted. I never said that man’s logic is to be trusted… (regardless of whether or not it happens to coincide with what the RCC teaches). I only meant to say that Purgatory is not against logic… I think a lot of Protestants are closed-minded about Purgatory… but some are open-minded enoguh to at least see the logic behind that teaching…

However, if scirpture is the only thing you recognize as valid “evidence”, there is plenty of it there… (1 Cor 3:13, St. Mt 18:23, St. Mt 12;32, Rev 21;27 “No impure thing” will enter Heaven])

 

[a_mirror_dimly]

Well, as I said before, your original argument makes sense from a utilitarian perspective, but that doesn’t make it true (there are many incorrect beliefs which produce desirable behavior outcomes).

I’m not absolutely certain Purgatory is false, but I am highly skeptical, and would be happy to talk over the passages you mentioned if you’d like. I believe one question is of utmost importance: You mention that nothing impure can enter heaven. Was Christ’s sacrifice insufficient to purify us?

 

[reteeks21]

One who loves truth and hates error is ALWAYS in a war…

(I fight not Protestants but Protestantism)

It’s the same thing. So I guess we are your enemies then, right?

 

[distracted]

Well, as I said before, your original argument makes sense from a utilitarian perspective, but that doesn’t make it true (there are many incorrect beliefs which produce desirable behavior outcomes).

I’m not absolutely certain Purgatory is false, but I am highly skeptical, and would be happy to talk over the passages you mentioned if you’d like. I believe one question is of utmost importance: You mention that nothing impure can enter heaven. Was Christ’s sacrifice insufficient to purify us?

it is if you don’t apply it to your soul…

It is like a shower running with no one in it… You can’t say thatthe water of the shower will cleanse you just because that is the purpose of a shower… You have to get into it and let the water fall on all the dirt and wash it away… In other words, not all who claim to be Christians are sufficiently “IN Christ”… I don’t suppose any of us is… or God would take us… right?

 

[distracted]

It’s the same thing. So I guess we are your enemies then, right?

if you can’t see the difference… then… i guess i don’t have anything more to say…

 

[tGette]

It’s the same thing. So I guess we are your enemies then, right?

“I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith” (2 Tim 4:7)

It is an expression.

Like when someone defends their faith (apologetics) they fight for their faith.

I do not think she means it like you’re an enemy…she just wants to defend truth!

 

[distracted]

“I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith” (2 Tim 4:7)

It is an expression.

Like when someone defends their faith (apologetics) they fight for their faith.

I do not think he means it like your an enemy…he just wants to defend truth!

sorry to disappoint but i am a “she”…

(although i do sometimes feel like i am a man in a woman’s body.:hypno: .

Oh no… … shouldn’t have said that… Now people will accuse me of being a closet… well, you know… and i am FAR, FAR from it…

 

[tGette]

sorry to disappoint but i am a “she”…

(although i do sometimes feel like i am a man in a woman’s body.:hypno: .

Oh no… … shouldn’t have said that… Now people will accuse me of being a closet… well, you know… and i am FAR, FAR from it…

Please accept my condolences! I get so used to using the generic “he”. It is wrong on my part to be so presumptuous.

Not disappointed…though…disappointed with myself!

I guess names on here are so gender neutral it is sometimes hard to tell. Plus, in general, guys are more “distracted” than females. Or is that an over-generalization?

Thanks for the update!
Corrections below: (and grammar too…“your” turns into “you’re”

   		 			 				 					Originally Posted by **tGette** 					[forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gif](http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=4273570#post4273570) 				
  		*“I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith” (2 Tim 4:7)

It is an expression.

Like when someone defends their faith (apologetics) they fight for their faith.

I do not think SHE* means it like you’re an enemy…SHE just wants to defend truth!

 

[SANxJONERO]

I believe in purgatory. If it’s not in the bible, then it is in some Christian book/s that could have been in the bible. Some people say that the book/s that mention purgatory were left out the bible, so people would have more fear of going to hell.

 

[distracted]

Please accept my condolences! I get so used to using the generic “he”. It is wrong on my part to be so presumptuous.

thanks… didn’t mean to make a “big deal” out of it… I have often made the same mistake and worse ones…

I guess names on here are so gender neutral it is sometimes hard to tell. Plus, in general, guys are more “distracted” than females.

So!! There it is - proof that i am like a man in a woman’s body!! But i do wonder why you say this… I mean, Why do you think men are more distracted than women? I tend to feel women are more “distracted” from Christ because of their emotions… They tend to let feelings rule their decisions rather than logic… and i used to be very much like that… but then I found Jesus … and spend a lot of time with Him @ the Blessed Sacrament (Real Presence) and He disabused me of a lot of… well… hard to put into words… but the word “gunk” comes to mind… Yeah, that’s the word for it…

Corrections below: (and grammar too…“your” turns into “you’re”

you didn’t have to do all that… I probably should have just let it pass… not sure why i didn’t…

God bless…

 

[tGette]

thanks… didn’t mean to make a “big deal” out of it… I have often made the same mistake and worse ones…

So!! There it is - proof that i am like a man in a woman’s body!! But i do wonder why you say this… I mean, Why do you think men are more distracted than women? I tend to feel women are more “distracted” from Christ because of their emotions… They tend to let feelings rule their decisions rather than logic… and i used to be very much like that… but then I found Jesus … and spend a lot of time with Him @ the Blessed Sacrament (Real Presence) and He disabused me of a lot of… well… hard to put into words… but the word “gunk” comes to mind… Yeah, that’s the word for it…

I need more time with Jesus! Do you get to visit Him daily?

I am not sure why I felt men are more “distracted”. I guess we are each distracted for different reasons. Obviously there is always the exception to the rule.

you didn’t have to do all that… I probably should have just let it pass… not sure why i didn’t…

God bless…

Because it is good to know when one is in error! It is the Catholic Apologist coming out! Just refuting error and defending truth!
(I could have said “distracted” instead of “he” then we never would have had this problem! )

Don’t let your “gunk” regret your decision!
I am glad you made this decision…and I will thank you. Thank you!!!

God bless you too!

 

[reteeks21]

if you can’t see the difference… then… i guess i don’t have anything more to say…

So if I attacked catholicism (which I don’t) but said I wasn’t attacking catholics, that would be okay with you? You wouldn’t be offended? You could see the difference?

 

[distracted]

I believe in purgatory. If it’s not in the bible, then it is in some Christian book/s that could have been in the bible. Some people say that the book/s that mention purgatory were left out the bible, so people would have more fear of going to hell.

Purgatory IS in the Bible… or i should say it is strongly alluded to there…

1 Cor 3:13… St. Mt 18:23… Rev 21:27 , St Mt 12:32…

and there is that one passage about how the person who didn’t know much (about living right) will be beaten with less stripes than the one who knew a lot… implying that both will be “purged” (as gold in fire)

 

[distracted]

Well, given that Purgatory isn’t plainly stated anywhere in the Bible, how can we trust that what seems a sensible interpretation is correct? Basically, it’s sounds a lot like “it can be okay to apply your own logic to scripture, but only if you come to conclusions the Catholic Church has already put out anyway”. In which case it’s still not personal logic that your relying on to reach the conclusion, it’s teaching, with logic brought in afterward constrained by the fact that it cannot seriously consider any conclusions that may disagree with Catholic teaching.

As I said before, it sounds like you’re saying “you can trust man’s logic, but only if you’re a Catholic coming to Catholic conclusions”.

you say this becaue you are Protestant and have not had the benefit of an infallible Church that has existed from the time of Christ… If the Catholic Church is the Church founded by Christ, we can trust its teachings… Jesus promised that his Church would not be overcome by the gates of Hell… He never promised that anything or anyone else ever had this kind of power… As you know Christ is more powerful than the sinful men who run the Church… & is capable of preserving Her… to the end of time…