Why it is Dangerous Not to Believe in Purgatory

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i am not sure i understand this statement… Are you saying that only the regenerate… as opposed to the degenerate or unregenerate (??) really “own their choices”??? :confused:
The unregenerate cannot make the choice to believe. Before the HS comes in, we are slaves to sin, and cannot free ourselves. Once the Spirit comes in, only then can we choose.

Jon
 
So - do you believe in Purgatory - or if you are not Catholic… do you at least see the logic of Purgatory??
No , over & out !!

Salute & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:
– Laurent LUG (.@…), october 20, 2008
 
One danger of not believing in Purgatory is that you could easily begin to think either of two things: 1) that you are too bad for Heaven & therefore may as well continue on in your sinful lifestyle…

or 2) you could think that God would never send you to Hell since you try to “be good” some or most of the time… and since you “mean well”, even when you do things you know He doesn’t approve of… you could then make excuses for not trying hard enough to overcome some particular sin…

So - do you believe in Purgatory - or if you are not Catholic… do you at least see the logic of Purgatory??
So, the atonement of Christ isn’t enough to justify the faithful? We have to suffer for our sins too?

Wasn’t purgatory created just so Bishops could sell indulgances?
 
So, the atonement of Christ isn’t enough to justify the faithful? We have to suffer for our sins too?
Paragraph 1478 of the CCC says “…the ‘treasury of the church’ is the infinite value, which can never be exhausted, which Christ’s merits have before God” (Emphasis mine). Jesus’ death on the cross was more than enough to pay for our sins. The problem is that oftentimes we resist God’s grace working in our lives. I remember listening to a Protestant radio preacher some years ago who commented that he heard Christians asking for more grace. His reply was that we had all the grace we need, but that we didn’t respond to it. Scripture confirms this. Mark 6:5-6 tells us that when Jesus was in Nazareth, “he was unable to perform any mighty deeds there” due to the people’s lack of faith. Jesus was able to heal the man born blind, but could do nothing for the spiritual blindness of the Pharisees (John 9). In Catholic theology, Jesus’ death doesn’t merely cover up our sins, but transforms us, but we have to allow God to work in our lives. Hebrews 12:5-11 tells us that God chastises those whom he loves. Also, I recall reading in Acts Ch. 9 about Saul’s conversion. In verse 13, Ananias tells the Lord about all the evil things Saul has done to Christians. The Lord replies in verse 16 “I will show him what he will have to suffer for my name.” Now, if Saul was forgiven by Christ for persecuting him (his Body, Christians), why would he still have to suffer?
Wasn’t purgatory created just so Bishops could sell indulgances?
No. While it is true the church sold indulgences in the Middle Ages, but it was not some scam for making money The church needed to raise money from time to time for building churches, etc. Receiving spiritual gain by giving alms, etc. is completely Scriptural. Chapter 10 in the book of Acts tells us of Cornelius, a God-fearing Gentile who gave generous alms to the Jewish people. One day and angel of the Lord appeared to him and told him, “Your prayers and almsgiving have ascended as a memorial offering before God” (verse 4). The Apostle Paul thanked the Philippians for their gift of money to him, telling them “It is not that I am eager for the gift; rather, I am eager** for the profit that accrues to your account” **(4:17) and in the next verse calls their gift “a fragrant aroma,” an acceptable sacrifice, pleasing to God. In his second epistle to the Corinthians, he asks for money to the Macedonians, telling them “whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows bountifully will also reap bountifully” and that “God loves a cheerful giver” (2 Corinthians 9:6-7).

The Indulgence promoted by Pope Leo X (which triggered Luther’s revolt) was to raise money to build St Peter’s basilica. John Cardinal Gibbons in Faith of Our Fathers quotes the Protestant historian D’Aubigne, who said, “In the Pope’s Bull something was said of the repentance of the heart and confession of the lips.” In other words, no amount of money given to the church will avail a person spiritually if his heart is not right with God.

Sadly, the selling of indulgences was abused, which is why the Church stopped the practice at the Council of Trent. However, Protestants should not judge the Catholic Church too harshly. How many times have we heard a preacher from his pulpit, or a radio minister, or a televangelist tell his listeners they will be blessed if they contribute to his church or ministry? They are doing the same thing the Catholic Church did, yet the Catholic Church holds its members to a higher standard, demanding repentance and turning to God before promising any spiritual blessings for almsgiving. James Cardinal Gibbons mentions in Faith of Our Fathers that when millionaire Cornelius Vanderbilt gave a donation to a Methodist college, a Methodist minister said to him, “Cornelius, thy prayer is heard, and thy alms are had in remembrance in the sight of God.” Gibbons dryly comments
The minister is more indulgent than even the Pope, to whom were given the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven; for the minister declares Cornelius absolved without the preliminary of confession or contrition while even, according to D’Aubigne, the inflexible Pope insisted on the necessity of “repentance of the heart confession of the lips” before the donor’s offering could avail him of salvation.
 
However, Protestants should not judge the Catholic Church too harshly. How many times have we heard a preacher from his pulpit, or a radio minister, or a televangelist tell his listeners they will be blessed if they contribute to his church or ministry? They are doing the same thing the Catholic Church did, yet the Catholic Church holds its members to a higher standard, demanding repentance and turning to God before promising any spiritual blessings for almsgiving. James Cardinal Gibbons mentions in Faith of Our Fathers that when millionaire Cornelius Vanderbilt gave a donation to a Methodist college, a Methodist minister said to him, “Cornelius, thy prayer is heard, and thy alms are had in remembrance in the sight of God.” Gibbons dryly comments
And most of those ministers are frowned upon by evangelicals as being conartists and scumbags who make Christianity look bad.
 
So, the atonement of Christ isn’t enough to justify the faithful? We have to suffer for our sins too?

Wasn’t purgatory created just so Bishops could sell indulgances?
Purgatory (concept thereof) is in Scrpture… I suppose biships made up scripture also??
 
And most of those ministers are frowned upon by evangelicals as being conartists and scumbags who make Christianity look bad.
without fear of God (the beginning of all wisdom) there isn’t going to be much revival… or no lasting revival, that is… and no one fears God more than a well-informed, well-catechized Catholic…

So what is your beef (specifically) with the Original Church??
 
well… it could be you don’t see the logic of a lot of things… :rolleyes:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purgatory
Why should I , or why do I have to believe
in something in which I don’t believe ??
Besides , there is not even one proof of its’ existance !!

An “outside” question:
Would it be logical to believe in something
which not exist ??

I have once seen the movie purgatory (1999) ,
to be honest , the movie on its’own
was not a big topper !!

Salute & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:
– Laurent LUG (.@…), october 21, 2008
 
You naughty boy 😉

Salute & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:
– Laurent LUG (.@…), october 21, 2008
 
Of course I see the logic in Purgatory.

A little side belief of mine, however, that I’d like to share: The only difference between Purgatory and Hell is time; You’ll get out of Purgatory in a couple thousand years. Hell, you have to escape from. 😉

Ironically Yours, Blade and Blood
 
@ distracted:

uuuuppzzzz , my mistake :o
Don’t kill me for that , please 😊

Salute & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:
– Laurent LUG (.@…), october 21, 2008
 
Of course I see the logic in Purgatory.

A little side belief of mine, however, that I’d like to share: The only difference between Purgatory and Hell is time; You’ll get out of Purgatory in a couple thousand years. Hell, you have to escape from. 😉
the time to escape is NOW…

can’t escape after you’re there… 😦
 
Non religion believer , pro-life 🙂

I love & like to live ,
I love & like life 🙂

Salute & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:
– Laurent LUG (.@…), october 21, 2008
 
Non religion believer , pro-life 🙂

I love & like to live ,
I love & like life 🙂

Salute & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:
– Laurent LUG (.@…), october 21, 2008
you have no religion?

were you raised in one??

What do you know about Catholicism??

Please tell us your whole life story… thanks… 😃
 
george57, ok where do i start to explain being what is called “born again” why its sad for you all , really when you know when one is lost, alone and scared of whats really ahead of us in death, purgatory , why, its it christ did not do all he said he would to remove all of our SINS, and thats it, believe that repent, get out and tell others of christ, and the gospel, your problem in your world in the popes church is not many of if any know the meaning of born again, so you spend your time running around, getting no where at least, in your hearts are empty and never will you know whats it like to accept christ grace and forgiveness, we talk another system in regards to understanding the bible most of you never read it , and sad to say get your verses, wrong in most topics, the sad thing about all of this is every day, catholics are leaving this world, and most of you never if your honest, can never be sure of where your going, i think its hell, and believe me thats what makes me sad, having everlasting life , its on christ, if you were never ever got baptist, or have any real works, but have repented, give your life to him ,its there my lord will place his love and grace apon me a sinner, forgiven and on my way to heven, now regarding works, if i work 40 years for the lord , and my other christian works only 2 years , it changes nothing, both of us are on our way to heven, when we get there , my rewards, are more than his, but our sins are forgiven by grace, as the bible says its a gift, meaning salvation, on mary no lighting candles no praying to the dead, no confession, no lies or half-truths , we dont need anything but christ, just christ, walk up and read the word, most of you live in fear and in bondage, but never will you give up your false church, i will pray my lord opens up your hearts this day, god bless you all. george 57 from scotland,
 
you have no religion?

were you raised in one??

What do you know about Catholicism??

Please tell us your whole life story… thanks… 😃
a)
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=4274269#post4274269

b) forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=4084355#post4084355

c) My disbelief in religion started somewhere when I was
12-13 years old , thinking about things that did not fit !!
At the age of 15 , they let me go to church on my own !!
A bit later I never went anymore !!
The last I went to church was in 1982 , after my last grandmom died !!
And since I left the rcc , it’s no longer mine !!

Salute & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:
– Laurent LUG (.@…), october 21, 2008
 
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