why Jews don't believe in Jesus

  • Thread starter Thread starter Fisher
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Jews do not care who the Messiah is. Jews care about what the Messiah will do. If the Messiah did not do what *they *expect him to do, he is no Messiah.
Exactly… as I was discussing here aswell. How easy it is to understand such simple things when the oppression of abstract teachings and preconceived ideas are not overwhelming our hearts and minds… but then, it alway overwhelmes the masses…thats why every Manifestation of God had so suffer its consequences… Christ Jesus also did.

Some Jewish believe that Jesus Changed the Torah (which once I discussed in one of the threads…its fulfillment, not change…):

The Torah states that all mitzvot remain binding forever, and anyone coming to change the Torah is immediately identified as a false prophet. (Deut. 13:1-4)
Throughout the New Testament, according to the Jews, Jesus contradicts the Torah and states that its commandments are no longer applicable. (see John 1:45 and 9:16, Acts 3:22 and 7:37).

The term ‘Change’ is not very specific when it comes to discuss Religions. Does the nature of God change? … The nature of God is eternal and all encompassing. It has always been, which puts Him is a position of being sancitified from any change, any plurality or singularity. God is pure perfection.

But then, let us study what happened when Christ Jesus came:

Jesus vividly illustrates his approach in the section often called “the six antitheses” (Math 5:21- 48). These are the “you have heard it said…but I say unto you…”. In six cases of important issues of Mosaic Law, Jesus contrast his word with the words of the Torah.

Even more startling, in three cases, on divorce, oaths and vows, and retaliation, Jesus revokes the letter of the Law and replaces it with his own diametrically opposed commands. Immediately after having said he has come to fulfill the scriptures, Jesus sets aside some of them! Apparently the process of “fulfillment of scriptures” includes alterations. In all six antithesis, Jesus applies the Golden Rule to make his alterations of scripture. In the last one, Jesus turns the laws of retaliation upside down and stresses loving even your enemy and doing good.

This principle of a superior righteousness, enunciated here in verses Math 5:17-20, is illustrated in the six antitheses that immediately follow. Each of these is based on some form of “you have heard it said of old . . . but I say unto you.” The difference pertains to both theology and history. Theologically, the importance words are “but I say,” which means that the new law has to do with the person of Jesus. Historically, the new situation revealed in the person of Jesus renders everything else “old.” The appearance of Jesus in this world divides history into a before and an after. The “I say” places Jesus on the same level as the Voice that Moses heard on Mount Sinai.

Just one of the examples is his reversing Ex:21:23-25 where it clearly teaches an eye for an eye, foot for a foot, hand-for-a-hand. But Math:38 says “You have learned…eye for eye…But what I tell you is this: Do not set yourself against the man who wronged you. If someone slaps you on the right cheek, turn and offer him your left…” etc.

And Jesus also says (as rightfully quoted by you):

Matt. 5:17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.”.

Jesus Christ, as stated above, is speaking about the essence of God and His creation. Let us then look into it with abit more confidence and love for Him.

When a child is born, his formation into existance into the womb is fulfilled. He looks slightly (or to whichever degree you prefer) different in the womb. But does his appearence into this world with a new look changes him from being who he is? … He is the same life.

Man was man, even when he had thick hair covering his naked body. That kind of a physic, hair etc, probably was neccessary for us at that time. But as we matured, and began to introduce various methods of dress and protect ourselves from the effects of nature … we slowly evolved. A person can immediately say “we changed!” … but the more appropriate word is “we evolved!”. Human have grown, evolved … according to the need of their present/current atmosphere.

Every tommorow is to fulfill today, and every today have fulfilled tommorow. Now you can say that the days have changed… or just that its the same sun again in a new time, giving way to certain newness (everytime it appears again).

This is basically how religions progress… fulfilling the past, and moving towards …

See this aswell, might interest you:
bci.org/prophecy-fulfilled/if-you.htm

Its my favourite article, where there is a questions: “If you were present in the crowd, as a practicing Jew…would you accept Jesus as he declared Himself the Massiah!?”

See ya,

Kashef
 
The laws and commandments set forth in the Torah were meant for men, not God, to follow. I can’t see or understand how they can be “fullfilled” as if one had only to obey a law to fullfill it.
God became man to fulfill the law, forgive me if i do not offer the correct Catholic perspective.
 
Ordinarily, I would not get in to this debate of this nature so I won’t be misunderstood to be biased against the Jewish faith but from literary point of view I read in a book by Asher Norman that there are 26 main reasons why Jews don’t believe in Jesus and I would like to share with you only 10 of these reasons, i suggest anyone who is interested to go and search for the book.

Please note that my purpose is not to disparage Jews faith as I said above but rather to clarify the Jewish position from what I have learned from their books, some of the reasons are:
  1. Jesus did not fulfill the messianic prophecies.
  2. Jesus did not embody the personal qualifications of the Messiah.
  3. Biblical verses “referring” to Jesus are mistranslations.
  4. Jewish belief is based on national revelation.
  5. Christianity contradicts Jewish theology
  6. Jews and Gentiles
  7. Bringing the Messiah
  8. Jesus was not “PERFECT” and committed a sin
  9. Jews don’t believe in the original sin
  10. Jesus was a false Prophet.
Here is a link to the book, 26reasons.com/index2.html

Please note that I don’t vouch for the authenticity of the author but from various different resource these 10 points are most common reasons why Jews reject the Messiah and his teachings.
 
Jesus came with a message of salvation to individuals who followed him. But Jews did not hear a message for the eternal Israel. We, as instructed in the Torah, are supposed to sanctify ourselves as a community through following the mitzvot/commandments in the Torah. Jesus had no message for his people as a people. Only as individuals. And that message was to follow him. He emphasized salvation for the Kingdom of Heaven – for the future, to a people who were commanded by God to sanctify themsleves in the here and now. That is one of the main reasons why his message was not and is not followed by the majority of Jews. (IMO)
Well, why did God ask the Jews to sanctify themselves in the here and now? By the way, the Christians are asked the same thing, and to do it out of love ( not just because your dad and mom said so ), do you know that?
 
But Jesus never says he will be the new Temple for which the entire people of Israel will be sanctified – only those who give up everything and follow him…] In fact, his message often seems directed at destroying community/social fabric, i.e. setting mother against daughter…
What do you base this statement on, Valke?
 
Hi

It is confusing even for the Catholics/Orthodixies. Isn’t it?

Thanks
Even though we believe it, indeed it’s a brainbreaker when we try to understand it fully. So we can’t really fathom the whole of who God really is. What He revealed is great enough… who can fully plumb it?
 
Ordinarily, I would not get in to this debate of this nature so I won’t be misunderstood to be biased against the Jewish faith but from literary point of view I read in a book by Asher Norman that there are 26 main reasons why Jews don’t believe in Jesus and I would like to share with you only 10 of these reasons, i suggest anyone who is interested to go and search for the book.

Please note that my purpose is not to disparage Jews faith as I said above but rather to clarify the Jewish position from what I have learned from their books, some of the reasons are:
  1. Jesus did not fulfill the messianic prophecies.
  2. Jesus did not embody the personal qualifications of the Messiah.
  3. Biblical verses “referring” to Jesus are mistranslations.
  4. Jewish belief is based on national revelation.
  5. Christianity contradicts Jewish theology
  6. Jews and Gentiles
  7. Bringing the Messiah
  8. Jesus was not “PERFECT” and committed a sin
  9. Jews don’t believe in the original sin
  10. Jesus was a false Prophet.
Here is a link to the book, 26reasons.com/index2.html

Please note that I don’t vouch for the authenticity of the author but from various different resource these 10 points are most common reasons why Jews reject the Messiah and his teachings.
I understand that it’s their understanding. Are they in the truth by saying so, even though they are sincere? I don’t think so…
 
But Jesus never says he will be the new Temple for which the entire people of Israel will be sanctified – only those who give up everything and follow him. Follow his torah. Not the “Torah”. His message is to the individual, not the community. In fact, his message often seems directed at destroying community/social fabric, i.e. setting mother against daughter…
What do you base this statement on, Valke?
Just coincidentally, this very issue is discussed in detail in Pope Benedict’s book “Jesus of Nazareth” - starting at about page 112. He presents the Jewish perspective as seen by Rabbi Neusner in his book “A Rabbit Talks with Jesus”. I don’t pretend to understand it fully, these authors are both heavyweights. But I do recommend “Jesus of Nazareth” as a very insightful book from the Pope.
 
Even though we believe it, indeed it’s a brainbreaker when we try to understand it fully. So we can’t really fathom the whole of who God really is. What He revealed is great enough… who can fully plumb it?
Hi

It was Paul only who confused Catholics/Orthodoxies; not Jesus who only believed in ONENESS of GodAllahYHWH, in my opinion. Kindly peruse his last words on Cross;" My God, My God; why have your forsaken me ". There is no conufsion in it, a simple, straightforwared sentence, with no ambiguities. Isn’t it ?

Thanks
 
“But Jesus never says he will be the new Temple for which the entire people of Israel will be sanctified – only those who give up everything and follow him…] In fact, his message often seems directed at destroying community/social fabric, i.e. setting mother against daughter…”
What do you base this statement on, Valke?
Same old message of Torah, parents against children, nothing new.

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
 
What do you base this statement on, Valke?
“I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword” It seems Jesus is saying there will be conflict in following him. At a minimum, strained family relationships which results in damage to the community.

Luke 12:51 Do you think that I have come to bring peace to the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division! 12:52 From now on five in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three; 12:53 they will be divided: father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law."

Jews would have taken this stuff seriously and literally. Jesus is saying that he has come to break up the family and thus the social fabric of the Jewish communities. This is also repeated in Matthew.
 
Jews would have taken this stuff seriously and literally. Jesus is saying that he has come to break up the family and thus the social fabric of the Jewish communities. This is also repeated in Matthew.
Or of Gentile communities for members that followed Jesus and the God of Israel, against their pagan family practices, just as Torah broke up Israelite families when some members still loved the sins of Egypt and couldn’t give them up.

Nothing wrong with that.
 
“I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword” It seems Jesus is saying there will be conflict in following him. At a minimum, strained family relationships which results in damage to the community.

Luke 12:51 Do you think that I have come to bring peace to the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division! 12:52 From now on five in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three; 12:53 they will be divided: father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law."

Jews would have taken this stuff seriously and literally. Jesus is saying that he has come to break up the family and thus the social fabric of the Jewish communities. This is also repeated in Matthew.
absolutely, two men in a field, one is taken, the other is left. For not all in a family shall necessarily accept the truth. Hence, there shall be war. So also, take up your cross and follow Him. Love God first, then your family. But God comes first. Even if it means you are kicked out.

I met a girl on the internet who was disowned by her Baptist parents for becoming Catholic. Count the cost. God comes first. Therefore, if one is convicted of Christ, and they be Jewish, they must be prepared to be disowned by their whole family.

Kateri had no friends or family that accepted her faith. Hers was a great cross. She was alone in her Indian village, the subject of social persecution.
 
Hm, not this (Jewish) rabbit*!
  • ‘Kaninchen’ is German for ‘rabbit’. 🙂
:rotfl:

Sometimes my fingers type more characters than were intended.

But just in case someone wants to use that title for their book, I already have it copyrighted. 🙂
 
Jews would have taken this stuff seriously and literally. Jesus is saying that he has come to break up the family and thus the social fabric of the Jewish communities. This is also repeated in Matthew.
But in another sense, Jesus came to bring the family back together. God with mankind. We all have free will and some would not choose to part of Jesus’ reconciliation with the Father. I don’t think that breaking the social fabric was the main intent, but was a necessary side effect. Like breaking eggs to make an omelet (sorry for the cliche).
 
But in another sense, Jesus came to bring the family back together. God with mankind. We all have free will and some would not choose to part of Jesus’ reconciliation with the Father. I don’t think that breaking the social fabric was the main intent, but was a necessary side effect. Like breaking eggs to make an omelet (sorry for the cliche).
Right. You are either children of God or children of the devil.

1 John 2:22-23 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
 
But in another sense, Jesus came to bring the family back together. God with mankind. We all have free will and some would not choose to part of Jesus’ reconciliation with the Father. I don’t think that breaking the social fabric was the main intent, but was a necessary side effect. Like breaking eggs to make an omelet (sorry for the cliche).
Whatever the intent, the actions could not be seen as a rebuilding of a metaphorical Third Temple by first century Jews. And I don’t believe there is anything in the Scripture that suggests that is how the Jews interpreted Jesus’ comments.
 
“I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword” It seems Jesus is saying there will be conflict in following him. At a minimum, strained family relationships which results in damage to the community.

Luke 12:51 Do you think that I have come to bring peace to the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division! 12:52 From now on five in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three; 12:53 they will be divided: father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law."

Jews would have taken this stuff seriously and literally. Jesus is saying that he has come to break up the family and thus the social fabric of the Jewish communities. This is also repeated in Matthew.
Oh no! it’s not quite that. It can be seen today whenever someone from a Jewish family, especially an observant one, tells his folks that he considers becoming a Christian. It also was the case in the beginnings of Christianity, I suppose!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top