What do you mean by that?
Oh no, I’m on your side! I was referring to the moral relativists! I was referring to Judges 17:6 and 21:25. Both verses are identical (RSV):
Ahh, okay
It is your opinion that MJ falls under 2291 of the CCC, but it isn’t Papal fact. Some religious consider alcohol and especially tobacco can just as easily fall into that category. Pope John Paul II may have been against MJ, but do you also know he was against the use of tobacco. If I recall the late Pope John Paul II wanted the government to ban it(tobacco) too. And let’s also not forget that Pope John Paul II also drank coca tea (similar to coffee) in his visits to Bolivia. Mind you this is the same plant that is used to make the deadly narcotic cocaine. You see, Popes have been for and against things for centuries, but it does mean what they say or think automatically becomes Papal law. You still haven’t provided me with an official Papal decree calling the use a sin.
God specifically calls everything that he created to be good.
If the Catholic Church really, really believed that marijuana was indeed intrinsically evil, I doubt this man would still be Archbishop of Kingston.
There is no papal decree that specifically names methamphetamines.Suppose I’m the moral relativist?
It is your opinion that MJ falls under 2291 of the CCC, but it isn’t Papal fact. Some religious consider alcohol and especially tobacco can just as easily fall into that category. Pope John Paul II may have been against MJ, but do you also know he was against the use of tobacco. If I recall the late Pope John Paul II wanted the government to ban it(tobacco) too. And let’s also not forget that Pope John Paul II also drank coca tea (similar to coffee) in his visits to Bolivia. Mind you this is the same plant that is used to make the deadly narcotic cocaine. You see, Popes have been for and against things for centuries, but it does mean what they say or think automatically becomes Papal law. You still haven’t provided me with an official Papal decree calling the use a sin.
You see there isn’t an official decree that condemns MJ as an intrinsic evil. The Catholic Church’s teachings can not collide with scripture.
God specifically calls everything that he created to be good.
Ironically the same source you showed me also has this to say:
If the Catholic Church really, really believed that marijuana was indeed intrinsically evil, I doubt this man would still be Archbishop of Kingston.
I thank you for your kindness, but I will continue to debate this. And of course, God is infinitely better than MJ. The same with alcohol, tobacco, and caffeine, but it doesn’t always mean the uses of these drugs are immoral. I love God with all my heart, which is why I also love and respect his creation that was given to us.
Exactly! As I’ve said before, the church doesn’t always point her finger at specific drug and condemn it. My priest told me this is where we as individuals need access each drug and the studies behind it to deterimine whether or not its use is moral. So how do we know that PCP, LSD, meth are imoral to use? Because all they do destroy human health and life. One can not recieve and active dose of these man made drugs and keep the virtue of temperence. They weren’t created by God, Mj was created by God as pointed out by Genisis 1:29.
I have never seen a more ridiculous use of Scripture. Would you smoke poison ivy? Eat buckeyes? No. They are poisonous. Thats what marijuana is: a low grade poison. It puts known carcinogens into the lungs, and decreases cognitive function, as we see evidence of on this thread.
People have attempted to use scripture to justify abortion. Believe me, this is not the worst use for scripture.
If the shoe fits, wear it
I respect your vigour but your harshness is damaging to your own soul and to the noble message you’re preaching
Well I’m afraid it doesn’t. Aside from the fact that I tried this new Folgers and don’t like how it affects me, I’m as sober as a rock.
The pot user? Excuse me, I find it very insulting you make such a hasty generalization.I respect your vigour but your harshness is damaging to your own soul and to the noble message you’re preaching
To the pot-user: you’re really picking at straws with the catechism thing still. The Catechism specifically says that alcohol, tobacco, and caffeine are okay and I can grab the ref tomorrow (I’m very tired, about to go to sleep). “Drugs” are clearly psychoactive substances taken for non-medical use besides those three. I already gave you an instance of the Pope saying that pot should be banned. I used to have a reference where the Pope was specifically asked whether marijuana was a mortal sin and he said it was, but I can’t seem to find it. I swear to goodness it’s out there though.
Bishops say false things sometimes. We can’t expect them to be 100% up-to-date on every little Church teaching, and in this day and age even open dissent isn’t unheard of. Doesn’t mean we should follow them on those things where they’re teaching contradicts the greater Church.
As for “all plants are good”, that’s both true and false depending on your interpretation. You have to remember that he was writing in a time when Judaizers were some of the more serious heretics, so it was necessary to remind the Christians that they weren’t held to Jewish law. But beyond that, yes all plants really are good and are put on earth for our use, as Moses wrote. But all plants have a purpose. If you get extremely drunk, that’s using grapes for something contrary to their natural use (while drinking a small amount would not be). If you ate a stick, that would damage your health because you’re misusing the stick. Some plants are, in fact, not directly useful to us at all (like poison ivy), but are necessary both for God’s mysterious purposes and to balance the ecosystem in various ways. Cannabis does have a use, and that use is rope
Let’s review 2290 again. Notice how the words: “every kind of excess” are italicized. Okay they are not here, but if you look at them in the book they should be. Don’t you think that means something right there? When it says, “every kind of excess” it is not just speaking for alcohol, tobacco, and medicine, but EVERY kind of excess. Whether it be flying, racing, collecting cards, running, golf. If I become so interested in collecting coins, that it comes in-between my relationship with God and starts to harm others than it must in excess. I mean the list could go on. The CCC even gives an example sentence right there. If it didn’t mean everything, it would have stated: The virtue of temperance disposes us to avoid the following items in excess. Or something to that affect.
These things were only made to be in the last 50 years, Hardly the time of Jesus. In fact, cannabis was fairly prevalent in his time, yet he never spoke ill (some even say he spoke highly) of this commonly used plant.
The people who make the laws & the police & the whole justice system don`t even uphold the laws
Another example of moral relativism. Because some do not uphold the law does not free us from our responsibility. Plus the statement is just a cynical generalization with very little truth to it.
Except for the whole not submitting to legitimate authority thing.
We are bound to follow legitimate authority. The early Christians were told to submit to Rome. We must also submit to our government in accordance with all laws not in direct conflict with Biblical truth. If a law is passed against prayer, we pray anyways. There is no article of faith requiring us to get stoned, and therefore we must obey the law.These things were only made to be in the last 50 years, Hardly the time of Jesus. In fact, cannabis was fairly prevalent in his time, yet he never spoke ill (some even say he spoke highly) of this commonly used plant.
So is your whole position just about obeying the goverment? You would have no problem with a person who lives in a country where MJ is legal, using it?
I am undecided on that issue. Bit in this country it is illegal, and we are bound to obey legitimate authority.