Why must we perform “good works” to obtain salvation

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dustdev14 said:
I have always heard that the catholic view is that, to achieve salvation, you have to preform good works along with belief in Christ. What exactly does this mean, and how is it justified. Thanks, Kaden
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First my friend it does not to “be justified” as the RCC is the One True Faith and Church desired and Established by Jesus Christ.

“These things I command you, that you love one another.”
John 15:17

The entire public Ministry of Jesus can be defined in these words: Love & Good works.

Our life’s goal is, to the extent Jesus makes possible, for each of US to emulate Him, and all that He modeled for us.

Two COMMANDS well summarize this:

“Love one another” {do unto others as YOU would have them do unto YOU}

and:

Lk 14:27 And whosoever doth not carry his cross and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

Phil 2:8 He humbled himself, becoming obedient unto death, even to the death of the cross .

[Mt 16:24]Then Jesus said to his disciples: If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross , and follow me.

Lk 9:23 And he said to all: If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me

BECAUSE JESUS LOVED MUCH, WE ARE TO ALSO LOVE MUCH

BECAUSE JESUS SUFFERED WE TO ARE TO ACCEPT AND EXPECT TO HAVE TO SUFFER

Thanks for asking,
Patrick
 
Where did you get this? It is not in the bible. Jesus never said it.

Even your NIV says that faith without works is dead.

Are you claiming that ‘dead faith’ saves?
 
It is possible that the person who said that to you meant this:

…Moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, we can then merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life…

I have brutally cut this from context, though, so you must read the context. This refers to after one has been justified. It is from CCC 2010. You also must read the surrounding comments about grace for context.
 
Q: What we are judged on at our death? Just before we are sent to heaven or hell. In front of the judgment seat if Christ. What is the standard used to judge us?

A: Faith?

NO!!!

A: Works.

Look it up. 100% of references to our judgement are on our works/deeds.

Branches have faith. But if they produce no fruit, they will be cut off and thrown into the fire. Producing fruit is a work. It is done by faith working through love - but it is a work.

The love which produces those fruits is greater than faith. Read Paul.
 
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Paul does tell us that God’s righteous judgement is based on our deeds (Romans 2:6). The problem is that all our good works (without Christ) are “as dirty rags” according to Isaiah. We all deserve to burn accordingly. Who will save us?

Thankfully, salvation comes from faith, and faith alone (Romans 1:16-17):

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.”

Here it is in Galatians 2:15-21:

We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

Any good work we do is “good” thanks to the Holy Spirit working in and through us - slowly but surely sanctifying us. Faith without works is dead - but it’s the faith that saves. On this Catholics and Protestants agree, no?
 
Then shall the king say to them that shall be on his right hand: Come, ye blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry, and you gave me not to eat, but you praised My Name; I was thirsty, and you gave me not to drink, but you sat in the front row in church on Sundays; I was a stranger, and you took me not in, but you told all your friends that you had been saved;

Naked, and you covered me not, but you made an altar call; sick, and you visited me not, but you held forth about how you must be good because you were rich: I was in prison, and you came not to me, but you announced that you had accepted me as your personal Lord and Savior. Then shall the just answer him, saying: “Well, duh, Lord, ‘once saved, always saved,’ am I right? It says right in the Bible that we don’t have to do anything to get to Heaven. Now would you please open the door?” And the king answering, shall say to them: Amen I say to you, you really should have read James’ letter more carefully.
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TULIPed said:
Thankfully, salvation comes from faith, and faith alone (Romans 1:16-17):
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That is unbiblical. Actually, the Bible alone states just the opposite. Not only does Saint James explicitly and unambiguously state we are justified by works (of grace), but that we are not justified by faith alone (cf. James 2:24)!
TULIPed said:
yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
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“Works of the Law”: This is a phrase Saint Paul uses to express works done under the strict merits of the law, by and of our own merits, without God’s grace. That is what that means; Saint Paul states that we cannot be justified by works of our own, indebting God to owe us salvation. However, there are works that we can do through God’s grace:

“For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but the doers of the law who will be justified.” - Romans 2:13

Those ‘[doings] of the law’ are not the ‘works of the law’ that Saint Paul references. The ‘doers of the law’ in the context of Romans 2 are works done through grace, and not of ourselves! There are two kinds of works: those done by ourselves without God’s grace, i.e. ‘works of the law’, and those done with God’s grace, i.e. works that Saint James says we are justified by.
 
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TULIPed said:
Any good work we do is “good” thanks to the Holy Spirit working in and through us - slowly but surely sanctifying us
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Absolutely! But not just ‘sanctifying us’, but also justifying us!
 
I know the phrase “faith alone” is an issue between Catholics and Protestants. I didn’t mean to use it pejoratively - rather, to say that we are dependent upon God’s grace for salvation. I should’ve chosen my words more carefully given the setting that I’m in. My apologies.

Having said that, I actually think (or maybe just hope) we’re closer to each other than perhaps the “buzzwords” lead us to believe. From the RCC:

“Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification, at the beginning of conversion. Moved by the Holy Spirit and by charity, we can then merit for ourselves and for others the graces needed for our sanctification, for the increase of grace and charity, and for the attainment of eternal life.”

My point was to say that salvation is God’s doing - and his alone. Said another way - according to the RCC - if the Holy Spirit decided to take a day off and not “move us” - all of us - Protestants and Catholics - would be in big trouble. Thank goodness He never takes a day off!
 
It’s to proselytize so that the church stays relevant and doesn’t become obsolete to culture. Also, it is human nature to work for other’s benefit as a motivator to keep working on projects we normally wouldn’t prefer to do. Its easier to work for your spouse and children than to just work for yourself and find that self motivation. Also, we have the ability to have foresight and want a better world for our children than when we received it from our parents to that our legacy is remembered as positive instead of as infamous. That’s the closest we get to immortality is how we are remembered and that the objects we built last on longer than we do. That’s why we build hospitals and paint on cave walls.
 
jericho777 said:
Certainly people can do works that are not led by God.
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Can people do works that are led by God?
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AugustTherese said:
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jericho777:
Certainly people can do works that are not led by God.
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Can people do works that are led by God?
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We should be led by God for our good works that He has prepared beforehand.
 
po18guy said:
Q: What we are judged on at our death? Just before we are sent to heaven or hell. In front of the judgment seat if Christ. What is the standard used to judge us?

A: Faith?

NO!!!

A: Works.

Look it up. 100% of references to our judgement are on our works/deeds.

Branches have faith. But if they produce no fruit, they will be cut off and thrown into the fire. Producing fruit is a work. It is done by faith working through love - but it is a work.

The love which produces those fruits is greater than faith. Read Paul.
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Interesting. So those who have done “good works” and deny Christ as Lord and Savior they also go to heaven?
 
dustdev14 said:
I have always heard that the catholic view is that, to achieve salvation, you have to preform good works along with belief in Christ. What exactly does this mean, and how is it justified. Thanks, Kaden
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Because having faith and belief is not enough… you have to put your beliefs in to action.

You can’t get to Heaven on your knees alone… your faith must manifest itself in your life on Earth through your concrete actions.
 
Interesting. So those who have done “good works” and deny Christ as Lord and Savior they also go to heaven?
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Well, it’s a little more complicated than that.

The law of God is written in every human heart. So it’s possible to do god’s will without ever hearing of Jesus. More, even people who have heard of Jesus but deny Him can be blameless in that regard (think of someone who only knows Jesus through other religions’ descriptions of Him; or someone whose only introduction to Jesus was by being abused in His name).

Salvation is only possible through Jesus; and following Him is generally necessary for salvation. But the truth is that the whole “saved by faith” and “saved by works” debate is a false dilemma; neither “Faith Alone” nor “Works Alone” is the answer. We are saved ex sola gratia — by grace alone. It is God’s grace that makes faith possible, and it is God’s grace that makes good works possible. Even faith itself is a work (cf. Paul’s statement that he is working out his salvation with fear and trembling; and Mark 9:24’s famous “Lord, I believe; help my unbelief!”); and James pointed out that it is faith that underlies all our other works.

Following Jesus helps tremendously when you try to go on your journey. Ignoring Him would not be a good idea. The correct choice to make (if you have the opportunity to choose) is to follow Him and do his will — which includes doing good works.

Hope this helps.
 
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Paul was a top of the line in Judaism but yet he says he was lost without Christ. So how can someone on the other side of the world fare any better. The logic doesn’t follow.

To me faith is a work of the Spirit in the life of a believer.

Having a hard time historically looking at Israel and the pagan nations surrounding them seeing that God saved them. God had Israel drive them out because of their idolatry. God even judged Israel for their idolatry. No idolaters will enter heaven. So how can you possibly say the world in their pagan religions which is idolatry are going to heaven?
 
We are saved by God’s grace through trusting in who Jesus is and what he did. Works cannot save us, but those who are truly saved and have the Holy Spirit living in them begin to love in a way they could not before. God wants us all to trust in Him, not in men. He wants us all to be Bereans (see Acts 17:10-11). Only if we get saved and immerse ourself in His Word will we no longer be tossed here and there by winds of doctrine. If you have never read the Bible, begin with Ephesians 2:8-10, then read Galatians (all of it), Romans 1-4 (making sure you make it to the end of the chapter 4), Romans 6:23, John 3:16, Titus 3:1-5, 1 John 5:11-12, Luke 18:9-14, Luke 23:39-43, and Revelation 1:5b. Blessed are those who learn the truth from God and not men! Nothing compares to knowing Jesus!
 
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