Why not ask Mary and the Saints for prayers?

  • Thread starter Thread starter aidanbradypop
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I have a direct line, so I just pray to God. I don’t have a problem with other people praying to whomever they want, but for myself - I find the most comfort with The Lord’s Prayer.
The Lord’s Prayer is wonderful and Catholics recommend daily recitation of that prayer taught to us by Jesus Christ 🙂

“direct line”? Do you ignore all those that God loves that are in heaven with Him? Mary and the Saints? If that’s not what you do, I apologize for misunderstanding. If it is what you do, have you ever really taken time to think about it - ignoring His mother & others He loves while yet professing to love Him? How were you able to work through & justify that? I know that if one of my children had a best friend who continued to ignore me everytime they called or visited, they wouldn’t remain best friends for long as my children would expect their best friend out of love to speak to me, not ignore me.
 
The Lord’s Prayer is wonderful and Catholics recommend daily recitation of that prayer taught to us by Jesus Christ 🙂

“direct line”? Do you ignore all those that God loves that are in heaven with Him? Mary and the Saints? If that’s not what you do, I apologize for misunderstanding. If it is what you do, have you ever really taken time to think about it - ignoring His mother & others He loves while yet professing to love Him? How were you able to work through & justify that? I know that if one of my children had a best friend who continued to ignore me everytime they called or visited, they wouldn’t remain best friends for long as my children would expect their best friend out of love to speak to me, not ignore me.
I believe that God is love. I’m not ignoring anyone because (I believe) when we die, we leave our bodies and become one with God. Those that died before me are with God, and by loving God, I love all those that have loved and will ever love God. That sounds kinda meta, but there it is…
 
I have a direct line, so I just pray to God. I don’t have a problem with other people praying to whomever they want, but for myself - I find the most comfort with The Lord’s Prayer.
Let me ask something…if a friend of yours, a relative, asked for your prayers for them…asked you to pray for them for something…anything…what would you tell them?

Would you tell them to just go directly and pray to God or would you pray for them as asked?

Also, out of curiosity, here is a passage from Job 42:

Job 42:

7 After the LORD had said these things to Job, he said to Eliphaz the Temanite, “I am angry with you and your two friends, because you have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has. 8 So now take seven bulls and seven rams and go to my servant Job and sacrifice a burnt offering for yourselves. My servant Job will pray for you, and I will accept his prayer and not deal with you according to your folly. You have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has.” 9 So Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite did what the LORD told them; and the LORD accepted Job’s prayer.

I would like to know your thoughts…why did God tell Eliphaz to have Job pray for them? Why did God not just tell Eliphaz to pray to Him directly and forgive him directly?
 
I believe that God is love. I’m not ignoring anyone because (I believe) when we die, we leave our bodies and become one with God. Those that died before me are with God, and by loving God, I love all those that have loved and will ever love God. That sounds kinda meta, but there it is…
Thank for your honest answer to my question. I look forward to reading your answer to PabloPe’s question. 🙂
 
To StillCatholic (Bonnie)…

Thank you for the thoughtful response to my post. You gave some wonderful words to contemplate.
Concerning others, I certainly have no problem praying FOR someone, lifting them up to my Savior for whatever need they have, and as you noted, this is Scripturally encouraged. However, praying TO someone, either alive or dead, is not something I feel comfortable doing. I struggle in my spirit, because if this was a beneficial or recommended mode of prayer, we would see it encouraged in Scripture. I can’t find it. Also, when I pray to God, I am in a form of worship. Prayers are normally directed to a deity, and if so, is indeed a form of worship. I worship the Triune God, therefore, my prayers are directed to either the Father, the Son, or to the Holy Spirit.

Blessings to you Bonnie…Gailgirl
 
To StillCatholic (Bonnie)…

Thank you for the thoughtful response to my post. You gave some wonderful words to contemplate.
Concerning others, I certainly have no problem praying FOR someone, lifting them up to my Savior for whatever need they have, and as you noted, this is Scripturally encouraged. However, praying TO someone, either alive or dead, is not something I feel comfortable doing. I struggle in my spirit, because if this was a beneficial or recommended mode of prayer, we would see it encouraged in Scripture. I can’t find it. Also, when I pray to God, I am in a form of worship. Prayers are normally directed to a deity, and if so, is indeed a form of worship. I worship the Triune God, therefore, my prayers are directed to either the Father, the Son, or to the Holy Spirit.

Blessings to you Bonnie…Gailgirl
Gail,

Are you a convert? The reason I ask it because many converts find it hard to pray to St. Patrick or St. Paul. They were raised to believe one should only “pray” to God and God alone.
 
Let me ask something…if a friend of yours, a relative, asked for your prayers for them…asked you to pray for them for something…anything…what would you tell them?

Would you tell them to just go directly and pray to God or would you pray for them as asked?

Also, out of curiosity, here is a passage from Job 42:

Job 42:

7 After the LORD had said these things to Job, he said to Eliphaz the Temanite, “I am angry with you and your two friends, because you have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has. 8 So now take seven bulls and seven rams and go to my servant Job and sacrifice a burnt offering for yourselves. My servant Job will pray for you, and I will accept his prayer and not deal with you according to your folly. You have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has.” 9 So Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite did what the LORD told them; and the LORD accepted Job’s prayer.

I would like to know your thoughts…why did God tell Eliphaz to have Job pray for them? Why did God not just tell Eliphaz to pray to Him directly and forgive him directly?
Of course I pray for my friends - and people I don’t like, and people I’ve never met. The difference is that those people are alive, and like me - are not yet one with God. As for Eliphaz and his two friends: they were alive at the time (not yet one with God) - and not in good standing with God - Job 42:7
My wrath is kindled against you and your two friends; for you have not spoken of me what is right, as my servant Job has.
and since Job was a good man, he would pray for them.

We’re getting into a sticky area here - as far as what I think is true -v- what other people think is true -v- what really is true. Let me clarify my statements by saying that I do not have all the answers. What I believe is based on my study of the bible, my experiences and my relationship to God (not necessarily in that order).

My husband died in 2011. I believe he went to God, but I still feel his presence, just as I occasionally feel the presence of my grandparents. I’ve never seen a ghost, but I know when they are near me because I smell them (I know, that’s weird - I’ve never heard of other people reporting this, and maybe I’m nuts - or maybe I have a brain tumor, or I have seizures near the olfactory receptors - I dunno). After my paternal grandfather died, I smelled a combination of Old Spice and leather (he was a leather craftsman). My grandmother smells like a combination of coffee, biscuits and gravy and a burned wooden match.

Others on this forum may find this completely delusional, but I’m just being honest - a perk of internet anonymity. One of the reasons I look forward to the end of this life is that I hope I get to find out what I was right about, and laugh at everything I got horribly wrong. It’s entirely possible that Mormons are the chosen people, and I will laugh myself silly - because I would have been way off the mark on that one.
 
Of course I pray for my friends - and people I don’t like, and people I’ve never met. The difference is that those people are alive, and like me - are not yet one with God. As for Eliphaz and his two friends: they were alive at the time (not yet one with God) - and not in good standing with God - Job 42:7 and since Job was a good man, he would pray for them.

We’re getting into a sticky area here - as far as what I think is true -v- what other people think is true -v- what really is true. Let me clarify my statements by saying that I do not have all the answers. What I believe is based on my study of the bible, my experiences and my relationship to God (not necessarily in that order).

My husband died in 2011. I believe he went to God, but I still feel his presence, just as I occasionally feel the presence of my grandparents. I’ve never seen a ghost, but I know when they are near me because I smell them (I know, that’s weird - I’ve never heard of other people reporting this, and maybe I’m nuts - or maybe I have a brain tumor, or I have seizures near the olfactory receptors - I dunno). After my paternal grandfather died, I smelled a combination of Old Spice and leather (he was a leather craftsman). My grandmother smells like a combination of coffee, biscuits and gravy and a burned wooden match.

Others on this forum may find this completely delusional, but I’m just being honest - a perk of internet anonymity. One of the reasons I look forward to the end of this life is that I hope I get to find out what I was right about, and laugh at everything I got horribly wrong. It’s entirely possible that Mormons are the chosen people, and I will laugh myself silly - because I would have been way off the mark on that one.
Sorry about your husband 😦

They are actually more alive than we are here. They are alive in Christ while we are dead to sin. :o
 
Of course I pray for my friends - and people I don’t like, and people I’ve never met.

Thanks for your response…but if someone asked you to pray for them…why woud you not tell them to just pray directly to God, like what you believe and do?
The difference is that those people are alive, and like me - are not yet one with God.
 
Responding to AidenBradyPop:

I am a convert (for many years) but not from any previous religious background. As mentioned, my views and convictions come from reading Scripture. Praying to anyone but God, Christ, or the Holy Spirit is an ‘uncomfortable’ issue with me, perhaps due to the Holy Spirit convicting me. Thus, I confine my prayers to the Godhead. If our Lord is seated at the right hand of the Father to intercede for the heirs of salvation (us), it seems fruitless (forgive me) to pray to any other. Jesus said there was no better person born than John the Baptist. Others who are noteworthy are mentioned in Heb 11. Yet, Jesus, the Apostles, and other writers of Holy Writ never mention praying to any of them, let alone any other departed believer, and this includes the mother of our Lord.
I realize this practice is a comfort to many of my brothers and sisters, but I don’t have this comfort. And, other than on this forum, I have not talked to/or read a Protestant’s view on this, but know many of their denominations evidently don’t pray to saints. I don’t know if their reasons coincide with mine or not.
Many years ago I talked at length to my priest about my feelings. He told me that prayer was vitally important to my relationship with God, and to continue to praise Him and cast my cares upon Him as I was doing. My relationship with, and dependence on Him, was what He desired most.
Thanks for asking. God bless.
Gail
 
So whats wrong for asking for a little help? We do it everyday of our lives. We ask for it and are asked of it. So whats the problem of asking our Mother and brothers & sisters for a little spiritual help? So what if they dont hear our prayers, God does, as does our Lord and Holy Spirit.
 
So whats wrong for asking for a little help? We do it everyday of our lives. We ask for it and are asked of it. So whats the problem of asking our Mother and brothers & sisters for a little spiritual help? So what if they dont hear our prayers, God does, as does our Lord and Holy Spirit.
Lutherans answer this question by referencing scripture - that there is no command, example, or promise regarding invocation of the saints. However, in a previous post, I said that I believe there is no reason to think that God does not hear prayers of those who invoke the saints.

Jon
 
Lutherans answer this question by referencing scripture - that there is no command, example, or promise regarding invocation of the saints.

Jon
Jon there is much in Scripture that gives credit to prayer to the Saints.

One may point to 1 Timothy 2:5 as a proof text against anyone praying to Saints in heaven in order for them to pray for us on earth. After all, it does say: “For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus”.

Doesn’t it say as clear as day here, that no one can get in-between man and God, and by praying to saints, are Catholics violating what it so clearly teaches here? Well, in the first place commons sense tells us that if the Catholic position violates it, so does the Protestant practice of praying for others. After all, Protestants as much as Catholics always intervene by praying not only for themselves, but other people, all the time. When one asks them to pray for them, Do they say to one another “How dare you pray for one another all, there is only one mediator between God and man, Jesus Christ!!!” No, Protestants as well as Catholics intercede for others all the time, and it is especially urged in the Bible. When Catholics pray to Saints, they are only asking them to pray for them. Even the immediate context of 1 Timothy 2 shows the need for Christians to pray for others, exactly as Catholicism teaches. Let us look at the immediately preceding verses of 1 Tim. 2:

1 First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men,
2 for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way.
3This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
5For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

So in the immediate context Paul urges people to pray for others. It is good and pleasing to God that people intercede on the behalf of others. So obviously this text does not mean people should not be able to intercede for others. When we pray to Saints, we are only asking them to pray for us. Next, can Saints pray for us in heaven? What does the bible say? Are there any witnesses in heaven of us? Paul tells us: Hebrews 12:1 - Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great A CLOUD OF WITNESSES, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset [us], and let us run with patience the race that is set before us.

Do we come only to God or do we also come to the assembly of Saints in heaven as well? Hebrews 12:22 But YE ARE COME UNTO mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 12:23 To the general assembly and CHURCH OF THE FIRSTBORN, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, AND TO THE SPIRITS OF JUST MEN MADE PERFECT, 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks more graciously than the blood of Abel.

Paul says yes.
He says we come directly not only to God, but to an assembly of Saints in heaven (The just men made perfect) exactly in the context of Jesus being the mediator!. Are we supposed to ignore them? The Bible says no!! Jesus is indeed the one and unique mediator. However, it is indeed him as a mediator, that makes all other mediation possible.

After all, Jesus is the supreme judge (John 5:27, 9:39; Rom. 14:10; 2 Cor. 5:10; 2 Tim. 4:1), yet Christians are called to share in Christ’s judgeship. They will be judges in heaven, even judging the angels (Mt. 19:28; Luke 22:30; 1 Cor. 6:2-3). Jesus is the king of the universe (Mk. 15:32; 1 Tim. 1:17, 6:15, Rev. 15:3, 17:14, 19:16), but he shares his kingship with all Christians, who in heaven will wear crowns, sit on thrones, and reign as kings alongside Jesus (Rev. 4:4, 10) – but will always be subordinate to him. Notice the promises that God makes (Rev. 3:21): I will give the victor the right to sit with me on my throne as I myself first won the victory and sit with my Father on his throne.

Jesus is the one and only shepherd of the flock the Chruch (John 10:16), yet in a subordinate way he shares his shepherdhood in a subordinate way with others, beginning with Peter (John 21:15-17) and extends it later to others (Eph. 4:11).Pat Madrid, Any Friend of God is a Friend of Mine , Basilica Press, 1996, pages 58, 59.

Thus, in the same way that Christ is unique and the source of all these things, he still uses people to in a subordinate way to share in his work.

Do the saints pray in heaven? The book of Revelation tells us:

Revelation 5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four [and] twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the PRAYERS OF SAINTS.

Revelation 8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer [it] with THE PRAYERS OF ALL SAINTS upon the golden altar which was before the throne. 4 And the smoke of the incense, [which came] with the PRAYERS OF THE SAINTS, ascended up before God out of the angel’s hand.

Obviously they do pray, and as we saw in Hebrews we come to these saints, who we see intercede for us.

Is there more evidence that the Saints are aware of what is going on at earth, and do they ask for justice?:
 
Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? Revelation 18:18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What [city is] like unto this great city! 18:19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate. 18:20 Rejoice over her, [thou] heaven, and [ye] holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

So we have further evidence that the Saints in heaven are aware of what is going on in earth, and they specifically pray for things that go on in earth. We must remember that Saints in heaven are not bound by time and space as we are. In eternity, 1 John 3:2 tells us: Beloved, we are God’s children now; it does not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

There is only one body, the Church. The church is not one church in heaven as opposed to one church on earth. The one church is intimately connected with each other (remember the image of the vine and the branches in John 15). And those in heaven are just men made perfect. As the body is called to love each other, are the saints in heaven, even though they are aware of what is going on in earth, according to scripture just given, careless as to what is going on in the lives of those on earth? Of course not!!! Christ calls perfected people to love the rest of the body. I can be confident that they will intercede for those on earth. What does it profit? James explains: James 5:16 “The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.” Those in heaven are perfectly righteous, and their prayers are efficacious. How can one ignore them? Why can’t I just say, I don’t need those Saints in heaven to pray for us, I can go directly to God. (BTW, Catholics also do pray directly to God.) Why can’t I say I really don’t need the rest of the Church? What does Paul say? 1 Cor. 12:14 For the body is not one member, but many. 12:15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 12:16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 12:17 If the whole body [were] an eye, where [were] the hearing? If the whole [were] hearing, where [were] the smelling? 12:18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him. 12:19 And if they were all one member, where [were] the body? 12:20 But now [are they] many members, yet but one body. 12:21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

As an eye, I cannot say to the hand, I do not need you. However, those who are against praying to the saints, do exactly that by neglecting the rest of the body of Christ.

For a more in-depth discussion of the issue of praying to Saints, I suggest you get the book, “Any Friend of God’s is a Friend of Mine,” by Pat Madrid,
 
=aidanbradypop;10680908]Jon there is much in Scripture that gives credit to prayer to the Saints.
One may point to 1 Timothy 2:5 as a proof text against anyone praying to Saints in heaven in order for them to pray for us on earth. After all, it does say: “For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus”.
Well, I don’t view Catholic invocation of the saints as intervention between God and man, or Christ’s role as single mediator, anymore than I do my praying for you in that way.
Doesn’t it say as clear as day here, that no one can get in-between man and God, and by praying to saints, are Catholics violating what it so clearly teaches here? Well, in the first place commons sense tells us that if the Catholic position violates it, so does the Protestant practice of praying for others. After all, Protestants as much as Catholics always intervene by praying not only for themselves, but other people, all the time. When one asks them to pray for them, Do they say to one another “How dare you pray for one another all, there is only one mediator between God and man, Jesus Christ!!!” No, Protestants as well as Catholics intercede for others all the time, and it is especially urged in the Bible. When Catholics pray to Saints, they are only asking them to pray for them. Even the immediate context of 1 Timothy 2 shows the need for Christians to pray for others, exactly as Catholicism teaches. Let us look at the immediately preceding verses of 1 Tim. 2:
Pop, I understand how it works, and I’m making no claim that, somehow, Catholics are violating scripture. The important part of this from my perspective is we see no command, example, or promise extant in scripture.
1 First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men,
2 for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way.
3This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
5For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
No problem here.
So in the immediate context Paul urges people to pray for others. It is good and pleasing to God that people intercede on the behalf of others. So obviously this text does not mean people should not be able to intercede for others.
Agreed.
When we pray to Saints, we are only asking them to pray for us.
I understand this.
Next, can Saints pray for us in heaven? What does the bible say? Are there any witnesses in heaven of us? Paul tells us: Hebrews 12:1 - Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great A CLOUD OF WITNESSES, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset [us], and let us run with patience the race that is set before us.
We do not deny that the saints in heaven pray for the Church Militant.
Do we come only to God or do we also come to the assembly of Saints in heaven as well? Hebrews 12:22 But YE ARE COME UNTO mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 12:23 To the general assembly and CHURCH OF THE FIRSTBORN, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, AND TO THE SPIRITS OF JUST MEN MADE PERFECT, 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks more graciously than the blood of Abel.
We speak of this in the liturgy of the sacrament.
Paul says yes.
He says we come directly not only to God, but to an assembly of Saints in heaven (The just men made perfect) exactly in the context of Jesus being the mediator!. Are we supposed to ignore them? The Bible says no!! Jesus is indeed the one and unique mediator. However, it is indeed him as a mediator, that makes all other mediation possible.
Where here, though Pop, is a command or promise to pray to them for intercession?
After all, Jesus is the supreme judge (John 5:27, 9:39; Rom. 14:10; 2 Cor. 5:10; 2 Tim. 4:1), yet Christians are called to share in Christ’s judgeship. They will be judges in heaven, even judging the angels (Mt. 19:28; Luke 22:30; 1 Cor. 6:2-3). Jesus is the king of the universe (Mk. 15:32; 1 Tim. 1:17, 6:15, Rev. 15:3, 17:14, 19:16), but he shares his kingship with all Christians, who in heaven will wear crowns, sit on thrones, and reign as kings alongside Jesus (Rev. 4:4, 10) – but will always be subordinate to him. Notice the promises that God makes (Rev. 3:21): I will give the victor the right to sit with me on my throne as I myself first won the victory and sit with my Father on his throne.
Ok.

continued
 
Jesus is the one and only shepherd of the flock the Chruch (John 10:16), yet in a subordinate way he shares his shepherdhood in a subordinate way with others, beginning with Peter (John 21:15-17) and extends it later to others (Eph. 4:11).Pat Madrid, Any Friend of God is a Friend of Mine , Basilica Press, 1996, pages 58, 59.
Thus, in the same way that Christ is unique and the source of all these things, he still uses people to in a subordinate way to share in his work.
Ok.
Do the saints pray in heaven? The book of Revelation tells us:
Revelation 5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four [and] twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the PRAYERS OF SAINTS.
Revelation 8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer [it] with THE PRAYERS OF ALL SAINTS upon the golden altar which was before the throne. 4 And the smoke of the incense, [which came] with the PRAYERS OF THE SAINTS, ascended up before God out of the angel’s hand.
Obviously they do pray, and as we saw in Hebrews we come to these saints, who we see intercede for us.
Is there more evidence that the Saints are aware of what is going on at earth, and do they ask for justice?
We agree they pray for us. Where is the command, example, or promise that we pray to them for intercession?

Jon
 
Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? Revelation 18:18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What [city is] like unto this great city! 18:19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate. 18:20 Rejoice over her, [thou] heaven, and [ye] holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

So we have further evidence that the Saints in heaven are aware of what is going on in earth, and they specifically pray for things that go on in earth. We must remember that Saints in heaven are not bound by time and space as we are. In eternity, 1 John 3:2 tells us: Beloved, we are God’s children now; it does not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

There is only one body, the Church. The church is not one church in heaven as opposed to one church on earth. The one church is intimately connected with each other (remember the image of the vine and the branches in John 15). And those in heaven are just men made perfect. As the body is called to love each other, are the saints in heaven, even though they are aware of what is going on in earth, according to scripture just given, careless as to what is going on in the lives of those on earth? Of course not!!! Christ calls perfected people to love the rest of the body. I can be confident that they will intercede for those on earth. What does it profit? James explains: James 5:16 “The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.” Those in heaven are perfectly righteous, and their prayers are efficacious. How can one ignore them? Why can’t I just say, I don’t need those Saints in heaven to pray for us, I can go directly to God. (BTW, Catholics also do pray directly to God.) Why can’t I say I really don’t need the rest of the Church? What does Paul say? 1 Cor. 12:14 For the body is not one member, but many. 12:15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 12:16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 12:17 If the whole body [were] an eye, where [were] the hearing? If the whole [were] hearing, where [were] the smelling? 12:18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him. 12:19 And if they were all one member, where [were] the body? 12:20 But now [are they] many members, yet but one body. 12:21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

As an eye, I cannot say to the hand, I do not need you. However, those who are against praying to the saints, do exactly that by neglecting the rest of the body of Christ.

For a more in-depth discussion of the issue of praying to Saints, I suggest you get the book, “Any Friend of God’s is a Friend of Mine,” by Pat Madrid,
You missed Luke 15:7: Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.

And yet, there is no command, example, or promise attached to praying for intercession, invoking the saints in Heaven. I am much more comfortable praying to God and asking Him to hear their prayers on our behalf!

Jon
 
Youhttp://www.catholic.com/tracts/praying-to-the-saintsmissed Luke 15:7: Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.

And yet, there is no command, example, or promise attached to praying for intercession, invoking the saints in Heaven. I am much more comfortable praying to God and asking Him to hear their prayers on our behalf!

Jon
Thanks for taking the time to read the posts lol.
catholic.com/tracts/praying-to-the-saints
Take a look at this link. I have to meet for dinner but will look for your reply.

Dustin
 
Luther refers to the blessed Virgin Mary as the “Queen of Heaven” since he believed she was assumed up into the heavenly hosts at her death. Lutherans also believe that Mary is “truly holy and pure” and some accept the Immaculate Conception of St Mary even though Roman Catholics didn’t finalize this actual doctrine until the 1800’s. BTW, Orthodox and Anglican Christians also leave room for a variety of positions on the Blessed Virgin.

Honestly, it is hard to conceive of the mother of Jesus was anything other than the most blessed Mother of God if one believes in our Lord’s Incarnation.

Lutheran churches in Europe and some in America have statues of our Lady with a crown upon her head as the Queen of Heaven.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top