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kainosktisis
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The Scriptures inform that the Church is the Body of Christ. Christ is the Head of the Body.
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truthlovingorthodox
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The gospels and acts and writings of the apostles are sufficient to keep the faith alive
There was always enough gospels preserved to continue preaching the faith and some time’s there may have been gifts of the Spirit
There was always enough gospels preserved to continue preaching the faith and some time’s there may have been gifts of the Spirit
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kainosktisis
Guest
And yet Christ didn’t command that Scriptures be written. Even if never written, the Teaching (Tradition) was handed down by Christ to & through His Apostles & their successors.
Tradition is Scriptural. Scripture affirms Tradition, the Teaching handed down by Christ to the Apostles & through their successors:
1 Cor. 11: 2 NIV I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the traditions just as I passed them on to you.
2 Thess. 2:15 KJV: Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
2 Thess. 3:6 KJV: 6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.
You can check the Greek on that.
Tradition is Scriptural. Scripture affirms Tradition, the Teaching handed down by Christ to the Apostles & through their successors:
1 Cor. 11: 2 NIV I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the traditions just as I passed them on to you.
2 Thess. 2:15 KJV: Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
2 Thess. 3:6 KJV: 6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.
You can check the Greek on that.
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truthlovingorthodox
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Yes the apostles had traditions they refer probably to people conduct and the apostles being great teachers of the faith would know how to teach others deeply about good conduct who then who are mature would teach others but God can teach people the truth who are mature those who have discerned the truth but the apostles were already knowledgeable and therefore had duty to correct those who don’t yet know. And also what they taught us by word God can teach others Himself. For example we don’t even have these oral traditions they kept so why does it matter
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truthlovingorthodox
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We have the Holy Spirit in us the annointing teaches us all things it is for the spiritually discerned. Perhaps in the early church there were things specially done to reflect the apostles wishes because all pastors have a unique work
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truthlovingorthodox
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The tradition being the teaching of Christ of how you should treat others. You can’t ascribe what that tradition is2 Thess. 3:6 KJV: 6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.
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Vico
Guest
Unless it is divinely revealed no person is absolutely certain of their salvation. Now, effort is conscious exertion of power which may be in the will to know the truth.…
I read the church teaches if you don’t know the truth because you didn’t make enough effort to know you can not be saved. Augustine teaches that. But can one ever know 100% one is true ?baptism by desire is if you can’t be baptised but believing the truth you accept it as your own.
All that attain the Beatific Vision of heaven are members of the Mystical Body of Christ, which is the one Church of Christ.
Catechism of the Catholic Church
870 “The sole Church of Christ which in the Creed we profess to be one, holy, catholic, and apostolic, . . . subsists in the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him. Nevertheless, many elements of sanctification and of truth are found outside its visible confines” ( Lumen gentium 8).
1259 For catechumens who die before their Baptism, their explicit desire to receive it, together with repentance for their sins, and charity, assures them the salvation that they were not able to receive through the sacrament.
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truthlovingorthodox
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Thankyou for explaining if the catechumen desires to receive entrance in the church if he knows it is true but not knowing is he saved according to the Catholic Church ?
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Vico
Guest
Consider infant baptism, and the growth of faith after baptism.Thankyou for explaining if the catechumen desires to receive entrance in the church if he knows it is true but not knowing is he saved according to the Catholic Church ?
Infants learn their faith after baptism, yet are given sanctifying grace, therefore knowledge is not a prerequisite for grace.
Catechism of the Catholic Church
1231 Where infant Baptism has become the form in which this sacrament is usually celebrated, it has become a single act encapsulating the preparatory stages of Christian initiation in a very abridged way. By its very nature infant Baptism requires a post-baptismal catechumenate. Not only is there a need for instruction after Baptism, but also for the necessary flowering of baptismal grace in personal growth. the catechism has its proper place here.
1253 Baptism is the sacrament of faith.54 But faith needs the community of believers. It is only within the faith of the Church that each of the faithful can believe. The faith required for Baptism is not a perfect and mature faith, but a beginning that is called to develop. The catechumen or the godparent is asked: “What do you ask of God’s Church?” The response is: “Faith!”
1254 For all the baptized, children or adults, faith must grow after Baptism. For this reason the Church celebrates each year at the Easter Vigil the renewal of baptismal promises. Preparation for Baptism leads only to the threshold of new life. Baptism is the source of that new life in Christ from which the entire Christian life springs forth.
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kainosktisis
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The Church teaches what that Tradition is since it was handed down from Christ.
1 Tim 3:15 NIV (1 Timothy 3 NIV)
if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.
1 Tim 3:15 NIV (1 Timothy 3 NIV)
if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.
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truthlovingorthodox
Guest
Ok so if one commits to the faith not knowing it is true he can be saved ? I know infants get grace but does that give them grace to know. I do not want to commit if I don’t know it is true and I don’t believe in true churches though there is a possibility there is and what if one picks the wrong church . What benefit can I get in joining a Catholic Church to know catholics believe Orthodox have the same communion
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truthlovingorthodox
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It is God household because where 2 or 3 are gathered In My make I am there in the midst the people of God Paul says are built into a temple or household Paul says otherwise and these believers have the Holy Spirit which allows them to discern spiritual doctrine in bible and God to teach them. There is so many matters and God promises to give believers the wisdom through His Holy Spirit to know how to judge matters if they come together in agreement or and as each have their own gift but all hear all sides to discover the truth they think it is. Everyone will know how each decided the matter should be handled though some won’t agree they should because the wisest thing seems rightThe Church teaches what that Tradition is since it was handed down from Christ.
1 Tim 3:15 NIV (1 Timothy 3 NIV)
if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth .
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truthlovingorthodox
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We can keep arguing another day I can’t argue all the time I am not satisfied to just be told I am wrong and I have to submit with side issues but not being able to prove it is the true church 100%
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annad347
Guest
The Catholic church teaches faith plus works shows you have the Holy Spirit in you. Most Protestant church (I say most cause I don’t know them all) teach faith leads you to work which shows you have the Holy Spirit in you. They teach Jesus Christ is the way to salvation.Thank you but if the church does not teach salvation is in Jesus alone and not one church only it seems no better than another. Unless you mean I should follow the church which brings me closer to God
But yes if any church does not teach you Jesus is your only way to salvation, or teaches you how become closer to God to help you understand the Holy Spirit in you, is not a good church to attend.
I’m not exactly sure what that means, but you are making an effort. You are seeking God, you are learning to put your faith in God, you are seeking God’s truth, you are looking for God’s church… You have the Holy Spirit in you.I read the church teaches if you don’t know the truth because you didn’t make enough effort to know you can not be saved.
So, how much more of an effort does the church who said what they said to you wants you to make?
FYI: Everyone can be saved.
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kainosktisis
Guest
This sounds more Evangelical in scope. Are you Evangelical?
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kainosktisis
Guest
From Matthew 18 NABRE (USCCB):
A Brother Who Sins.*
15h “If your brother* sins [against you], go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother.
16* i If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that ‘every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.’
17j If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church.* If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.
18* k Amen, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
19* l Again, [amen,] I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything for which they are to pray, it shall be granted to them by my heavenly Father.
20* m For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.”
In context it is the Church which has authority.
“ * [18:15–20] Passing from the duty of Christian disciples toward those who have strayed from their number, the discourse now turns to how they are to deal with one who sins and yet remains within the community. First there is to be private correction (Mt 18:15); if this is unsuccessful, further correction before two or three witnesses (Mt 18:16); if this fails, the matter is to be brought before the assembled community (the church), and if the sinner refuses to attend to the correction of the church, he is to be expelled (Mt 18:17). The church’s judgment will be ratified in heaven, i.e., by God (Mt 18:18). This three-step process of correction corresponds, though not exactly, to the procedure of the Qumran community; see 1QS 5:25–6:1; 6:24–7:25; CD 9:2–8. The section ends with a saying about the favorable response of God to prayer, even to that of a very small number, for Jesus is in the midst of any gathering of his disciples, however small (Mt 18:19–20). Whether this prayer has anything to do with the preceding judgment is uncertain.”
A Brother Who Sins.*
15h “If your brother* sins [against you], go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother.
16* i If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that ‘every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.’
17j If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church.* If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.
18* k Amen, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
19* l Again, [amen,] I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything for which they are to pray, it shall be granted to them by my heavenly Father.
20* m For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.”
In context it is the Church which has authority.
“ * [18:15–20] Passing from the duty of Christian disciples toward those who have strayed from their number, the discourse now turns to how they are to deal with one who sins and yet remains within the community. First there is to be private correction (Mt 18:15); if this is unsuccessful, further correction before two or three witnesses (Mt 18:16); if this fails, the matter is to be brought before the assembled community (the church), and if the sinner refuses to attend to the correction of the church, he is to be expelled (Mt 18:17). The church’s judgment will be ratified in heaven, i.e., by God (Mt 18:18). This three-step process of correction corresponds, though not exactly, to the procedure of the Qumran community; see 1QS 5:25–6:1; 6:24–7:25; CD 9:2–8. The section ends with a saying about the favorable response of God to prayer, even to that of a very small number, for Jesus is in the midst of any gathering of his disciples, however small (Mt 18:19–20). Whether this prayer has anything to do with the preceding judgment is uncertain.”
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Vico
Guest
One that is baptized, believes, and has repented, should honestly say the Symbol of Faith (the Creed).
All the Catholic sui iuris churches are in full communion with the Bishop of Rome. Apostolic churches that are not in full communion also have valid sacraments. The Catholic Church is against prosyletism. Pope Benedict XVII wrote:
http://www.vatican.va/content/bened...f_ben-xvi_hom_20070513_conference-brazil.htmlThe Church considers herself the disciple and missionary of this Love : missionary only insofar as she is a disciple, capable of being attracted constantly and with renewed wonder by the God who has loved us and who loves us first (cf. 1 Jn 4:10). The Church does not engage in proselytism. Instead, she grows by “attraction” : just as Christ “draws all to himself” by the power of his love, culminating in the sacrifice of the Cross, so the Church fulfils her mission to the extent that, in union with Christ, she accomplishes every one of her works in spiritual and practical imitation of the love of her Lord.
Catechism
157 Faith is certain . It is more certain than all human knowledge because it is founded on the very word of God who cannot lie. To be sure, revealed truths can seem obscure to human reason and experience, but "the certainty that the divine light gives is greater than that which the light of natural reason gives."31 "Ten thousand difficulties do not make one doubt."32
812 Only faith can recognize that the Church possesses these properties from her divine source. …
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truthlovingorthodox
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Plenty of Catholics share their faith hoping to convert others. They have a right to do so but not to force those who never want to know. Making statements to others they will never go to heaven if they don’t convert is judging even if it is true. You can say we believe it is so and that is God judgement but we are not God not that that will alter God decision they think according them but trying to convert others who are not seeking to tell them if they don’t convert they are going to hell is proselyting
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Vico
Guest
Acts can be judged but not persons.Plenty of Catholics share their faith hoping to convert others. They have a right to do so but not to force those who never want to know. Making statements to others they will never go to heaven if they don’t convert is judging even if it is true. You can say we believe it is so and that is God judgement but we are not God not that that will alter God decision they think according them but trying to convert others who are not seeking to tell them if they don’t convert they are going to hell is proselyting
The Catechism of the Catholic Church summed it up:
1855 Mortal sin destroys charity in the heart of man by a grave violation of God’s law; it turns man away from God, who is his ultimate end and his beatitude, by preferring an inferior good to him.
1861 Mortal sin is a radical possibility of human freedom, as is love itself. It results in the loss of charity and the privation of sanctifying grace, that is, of the state of grace. If it is not redeemed by repentance and God’s forgiveness, it causes exclusion from Christ’s kingdom and the eternal death of hell, for our freedom has the power to make choices for ever, with no turning back. However, although we can judge that an act is in itself a grave offense, we must entrust judgment of persons to the justice and mercy of God.
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truthlovingorthodox
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I agree. Thankyou for explaining your catholic beliefs
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