Why should Mary be a stumbling block!

[Mannyfit75]

Ratzinger? I really dont know much about him except that he tried to insult Islam and was cowered into making excuses. I almost admired him. Oh well.

He quoted Byzantine Manuel II Paleologus in 1391 , he said.

“Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.”

The speech he made was a thesis he made that religions cannot be justify to violence. The Muslims reacted badly and taken the words of the Pope out of context.

The reaction of the Muslims I think was very violence, and they killed Catholic nuns and priests to justify that speech.

The lecture on “faith and reason”, with references ranging from ancient Jewish and Greek thinking to Protestant theology and modern Secularity, focused mainly on Christianity and what Pope Benedict called the tendency to “exclude the question of God” from reason. Islam features in a part of the lecture: the Pope quoted strong criticism of Islam, which he described as being of a “startling brusqueness, a brusqueness which leaves us astounded.”

I, in fact supported the Pope remarks and agree with him that religion cannot be justified or use for violence.

Here is an excerpt of the Pope’s speech:

The emperor, after having expressed himself so forcefully, goes on to explain in detail the reasons why spreading the faith through violence is something unreasonable. Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul. “God”, he says, "is not pleased by blood — and not acting reasonably is contrary to God’s nature. Faith is born of the soul, not the body. Whoever would lead someone to faith needs the ability to speak well and to reason properly, without violence and threats… To convince a reasonable soul, one does not need a strong arm, or weapons of any kind, or any other means of threatening a person with death…

So Pope Benedict XVI was correct in his thinking. He was sadden that the Muslim community took his speech out of context.

just talking from experience, dude. yeah i know, you would probably say i was an ignorant catholic. makes little difference.

Your experience cannot justify your reasoning to know the hearts and minds of other Catholic. If you believed that you prayed to Mary and consider her above Jesus, then truly I say to you, you committed a idolatry, and practice the so-called Marian devotion contrary to the teaching of the Church.

well thats true. still, the heavenly saints add up.

We call this community also as Communion of Saints as stated in the Nicene Creed.

yeah i know, and for each mystery how many prayers were directed to god and how many goes to mary?

All of them. Second, the rosary is a mediative prayer.

The prayer, Hail Mary, full of grace. The Lord is with you is taken out of the Scripture. As well as Second part of the prayer, Holy Mary, Mother of God. Pray for us Sinners.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church states:

2705 Meditation is above all a quest. The mind seeks to understand the why and how of the Christian life, in order to adhere and respond to what the Lord is asking. The required attentiveness is difficult to sustain. We are usually helped by books, and Christians do not want for them: the Sacred Scriptures, particularly the Gospels, holy icons, liturgical texts of the day or season, writings of the spiritual fathers, works of spirituality, the great book of creation, and that of history the page on which the “today” of God is written.

2706 To meditate on what we read helps us to make it our own by confronting it with ourselves. Here, another book is opened: the book of life. We pass from thoughts to reality. To the extent that we are humble and faithful, we discover in meditation the movements that stir the heart and we are able to discern them. It is a question of acting truthfully in order to come into the light: “Lord, what do you want me to do?”

2707 There are as many and varied methods of meditation as there are spiritual masters. Christians owe it to themselves to develop the desire to meditate regularly, lest they come to resemble the three first kinds of soil in the parable of the sower.5 But a method is only a guide; the important thing is to advance, with the Holy Spirit, along the one way of prayer: Christ Jesus.

 

[Mannyfit75]

yeah, i never really did take any of the hundred or so rosaries I said seriously. everytime i tried to, i got dead bored by the time i got mid way. its gonna be over soon, its gonna be over soon, was the mantra that went into my head while my lips mechanically recited the hail maries.

and those novenas, oh my god. what a waste of time.

You know there are times, I can tolerate some of your posts. But this one is border line. Call the Novenas a waste of time is offensive and uncharitable.
I have prayed several Novenas and many of them involving the Holy Spirit. Of course there is the Divine Mercy Novena, which offers 9 day prayers; which is very popular amongst many Catholics today. As well as the Sacred Heart of Jesus. I know my mother who is in the hospital is devoted in the Novena of the Sacred Heart of Jesus.

Before you start staying opinions that are mere insults. You ought to think before what you write.

 

[Mannyfit75]

hey, its not just the school, okay. We used to live with my grand parents. Each night, EACH NIGHT! we had to do say the freaking rosary!

More insults. Do you know that calling freaking rosary, is against Forum Rules?

Here is the rule if you missed it.

1. Non-Catholics are welcome to participate but must be **respectful of the faith **of the Catholics participating on the board.

Reference link:
70.87.34.114/showthread.php?t=2

I see no respect in this post you made what so ever.

 

[Mannyfit75]

AgnosTheist:

i agree. but our filipino catholic culture shoves devotion into kids throats.

I’m Filipino mind you. Serving in the Army in Iraq, and there are Filipinos here working as well. I am also discerning the priesthood.

 

[justasking4]

Daniel, I thank you for sharing your views of this with me, but that still really does not address my question (forgive me if I have failed to articulate it in a more clear way), why should it bother non-Catholics that we Catholics turn to Mary, either in example or in prayer, if to us, Mary Points us to Jesus, why is this a bother?

I Worship Only God, Father Son and Holy Spirit, One God. I would never ever EVER place a creature above or even level with the Creator and that includes our Blessed Mother Mary, but as Jesus came to us through Mary, seems to make sense that I can (but dont have to) go to Jesus through Mary.

You chose not to go to Mary for help and that is fine and I have no problem with that, all I am asking is why do non_Catholics have problems if I Choose to as long as we Both reach the same goal,and that is JESUS CHRIST OUR SAVIOUR. Or did I completely misunderstand your response? (entirely possible for me )

anywayssss,Gods many blessings to you Daniel Marsh and may we both see each other one day in heaven.

The reason this is matters is because the truth matters and doctrine matters. Read the NT and you see how Jesus and His disciples were constantly engaging false ideas and doctrines. This issue is of paramont importance. If it mattered for Christ, it should matter to all that claim Him as Lord and Savior.

 

[Verisimilitude]

I’m Filipino mind you. Serving in the Army in Iraq, and there are Filipinos here working as well. I am also discerning the priesthood.

My wife is Filipina and is much more in line with you than AgnosTheist. BTW, thank you for serving.

 

[Mannyfit75]

My wife is Filipina and is much more in line with you than AgnosTheist. BTW, thank you for serving.

Your welcome.

I like to add that in my Filipino upbringing, I was not force into praying the rosary.

Rather, I was **obedient to my parents **when they ask that the family need to pray together.

I was merely obeying the commandment set by Our Lord.

1. Honor thy Father and Mother.

Much like Jesus was obedient with Joseph and Mary.

Luke 2:51

“And he went down and came to Nazareth, and was obedient to them; and his mother kept all these things in her heart.”

 

[Mannyfit75]

The reason this is matters is because the truth matters and doctrine matters. Read the NT and you see how Jesus and His disciples were constantly engaging false ideas and doctrines. This issue is of paramont importance. If it mattered for Christ, it should matter to all that claim Him as Lord and Savior.

The Catholic Church does claim that Jesus is Lord and Savior. We have been through this before.

 

[justasking4]

The Catholic Church does claim that Jesus is Lord and Savior. We have been through this before.

Just because someone claims Christ is Lord and Savior that this is all there is. Jude 3 is clear on this issue of truth and error when he writes;Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints.

Thats why these discussions are important and at times painful. If we let false teachings go unchallenged, then this weakness or destroys the effectiveness of Christ.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Just because someone claims Christ is Lord and Savior that this is all there is. Jude 3 is clear on this issue of truth and error when he writes;Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing **that you contend earnestly for the faith **which was once for all handed down to the saints.

Thats why these discussions are important and at times painful. If we let false teachings go unchallenged, then this weakness or destroys the effectiveness of Christ.

From your Protestant up bringing, you may preceived Catholic doctrine on moral and faith as “false teachings.” To us Catholics, they are part of Divine Revelation or part of our deposit of faith. It has been handed down to us from the Apostles to their successors.

We have already explain to you why we believe our faith to be true. Jesus revealed it. You have to respect that. Disagree as you wish but please do not call our faith erroneous.

 

[justasking4]

From your Protestant up bringing, you may preceived Catholic doctrine on moral and faith as “false teachings.” To us Catholics, they are part of Divine Revelation or part of our deposit of faith. It has been handed down to us from the Apostles to their successors.

We have already explain to you why we believe our faith to be true. Jesus revealed it. You have to respect that. Disagree as you wish but please do not call our faith erroneous.

Do you think Sola Scriptura is erroneous? Do you think its erroneous to reject catholic teachings?

 

[Jordan_Francis]

Sola Scriptura is self-defeating.

Scripture never teaches it.

 

[justasking4]

Sola Scriptura is self-defeating.

Scripture never teaches it.

Is it erroneous though?

 

[Jordan_Francis]

Of course it is. It is not taught be scripture nor inferred by it.

 

[justasking4]

Of course it is. It is not taught be scripture nor inferred by it.

So it is right to call another belief false if you have reasons for doing so?

 

[Jordan_Francis]

Yes. If the reasons are legitimate. You have a right to consider Catholicism erroneous.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Do you think Sola Scriptura is erroneous? Do you think its erroneous to reject catholic teachings?

I think it is in error because private interpretation of the Scripture can be destructive just as Peter states,

“And count the forbearance of our Lord as salvation. So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, speaking of this, as he does in all his letters. There are somethings in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, beware least you be carried away with error of lawless men and lose your own stability.” 2 Peter 3:15-17

The Bible ought to be read in the light of the teachings of the Church.

Fr. Corapi once said, a Protestant minister said that is it is ok to kill abortion doctors, because he said it is Biblical. Well, that’s the Protestant minister ''self-interpretation" of certain passages in the Bible.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church made this very clear as well:

110 In order to discover the sacred authors’ intention, the reader must take into account the conditions of their time and culture, the literary genres in use at that time, and the modes of feeling, speaking and narrating then current. "For the fact is that truth is differently presented and expressed in the various types of historical writing, in prophetical and poetical texts, and in other forms of literary expression."76

111 But **since Sacred Scripture is inspired, there is another and no less important principle of correct interpretation, without which Scripture would remain a dead letter. “Sacred Scripture must be read and interpreted in the light of the same Spirit by whom it was written.”**77

 

[love4mary]

I Love Mary, she is whom introduced me to her Son, my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. I go to her daily, sometimes I plead with her to take my prayers to her Son, other times I just meditate on her life and how I can be more like her. Mary is in perfect harmony with God so to be more like her is to be more like Christ.

Don’t fear Mary, but go to her with sincere and humble hearts and she will lead you to a closer relationship with Jesus.

 

[elvisman]

Who the hell is Daniel Marsh. All I know is Daniel Cooke.

I’d rather think he had a carpentry accident that turned him into a Eunuch.

Grow up, Agnos. I’m sure you’ll make a fine adult some day, but I could be wrong.
**Show a little respect when you come here. Referring to the Rosary as the “freaking rosary” and novenas as "and those novenas, oh my god. what a waste of time" is childish and offensive. Using the Lord’s name in vain and bashing devotional practices is sophomoric and immature. All it shows is that you are devoid of intelligent thought.
I know you don’t care - and that’s what makes your posts so predictable and stupid.
Again - grow up.

 

[Goldy]

If you really want to make this thread productive, give your personal testimonies that demonstrate how, why, when, where, what, etc., that your personal devotion has lead you closer to Jesus in biblical ways. Be specific.

Alright dude, here’s the deal. Let’s just cut to the chase, shall we?

Do you really…REALLY…think that Catholics worship Mary? Or is that just your opinion? Do you think the Catholic Church, in all it’s wisdom, has a bunch of people behind locked doors at the Vatican saying to one another, “Shhhhhhhhh, shhhhhhh, we really do worship Mary. We just don’t want Protestants to think that. Now keep it down guys so the cat’s not out of the bag!” I guess it’s just a huge consiracy theory, isn’t it?
The bottom line is that if Catholics say they don’t worship Mary (which has been said no less than 6 million times on the board), and they really feel that way in their heart, why isn’t that enough for you Protestants? I mean seriously, I could have 100 statues and photos of Mary at my house and say 20 rosaries a day. But if I believe with all my heart that’s bringing me closer to Christ, shouldn’t Protestants applaud that? And last time I checked, a false idol is designed to bring you AWAY from Christ, not toward Him. Boy, if Mary is really a false idol, she really stinks at it