Why should wives be submissive to husbands?

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The title is misleading.

Do all women have to be submissive to all men or is it that wives should be submissive to husbands?
 
I don’t agree with several verses in the Bible. I don’t feel as a woman that I should be submissive to a man. I also don’t think that a man should be the head of the household. I want to be equal to my husband. Maybe I’m not understanding these passages correctly. Women are equal to men in my opinion, I couldn’t believe in a god who thought otherwise
Sadly many Catholics and Protestants have perpetuated a widespread misinterpretation of the passage in Ephesians that you’re alluding to. Here’s the thing…

Immediately prior to saying “wives be submissive to your husband…” St. Paul tells his readers, “Be submissive to one another out of reverence for Christ. Wives to your husbands as to the Lord…” The woman’s submissiveness is only within the context of the mutual submissiveness of spouses to one another.

But go on and read further in the passage. Look at what St. Paul has to say to husbands about how they are to behave towards their wives. "Husbands love your wives as Christ loved the Church and gave himself up for her.

A husband’s submissiveness to his wife is played out through self-sacrificial Christ-like love! Is that the kind of love that you can get behind?
 
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I think we’re all in agreement that women are NOT to be submissive to men, but Scripture and the Church teach a wife is to be under her husband’s** mission.
Leadership, true leadership has often been distorted in this fallen world, to often mean micromanagement at the very least to tyranny at worst.

I think the husband has to be proactive with being the spiritual leader of the household. This does not mean he is innately equipped as a male with leadership skills. He has to work to obtain these skills all the time and will need the help of other men, his wife, his family and the Church. His mission is to get his family to heaven. God will hold him responsible for that. In light of that charge, leadership requires humility.

Just because the husband is the leader, the wife is not necessarily a slave, nor is she a permanent minor.
She shouldn’t have the status of a child.

I remember as a child, my friend’s mom literally begging her husband for grocery money. This example of husband as leader where a wife has to ask permission to get money for grocery shopping is not true leadership but tyranny.
 
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I have problems when people assume that Eve sinned by eating the fruit. Notice that the warning was given to Adam, not to Eve. She ate the fruit at the tempting of the snake…but Adam ate the fruit knowing it was forbidden. I don’t think Eve actually sinned…she was just too naive to resist the temptation. Adam is the one given the command.

Most Jews tend towards this interpretation as well, plus Jews reject the concept of original sin being involved in any way here. Just another thought to throw in the mix. I know you don’t agree!
 
Actually she did know it was forbidden from what she said with her interactions with the snake.

A lot of the more fundamentalist Christians use the fact that she was deceived as a reason to not give women any position of authority or the right to vote since women are soft in the head so to speak.
 
I don’t agree with several verses in the Bible. I don’t feel as a woman that I should be submissive to a man.
Good, because the Catholic Church does not teach wifely submission. The Church teaching is that marriage is a partnership and spouses are equals.

We also don’t interpret Bible verses on their own, out of context.
 
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Scripture and the Church teach a wife is to be under her husband’s mission.
Huh?
My husband was a Presbyterian. I certainly wasn’t “under” any “mission” with him, nor did he want me to be.

We both loved each other, so in that sense, we were both under each other’s missions, if one wants to take that interpretation of what Ascension Presents said. It’s not something that applies only to the wife though.

I think it’s best to just stick to the Catechism, myself.
 
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There’s nothing inherent to men that makes them worthy of being submitted to. Not only that, but relationships where the woman “submits” usually turn toxic and even abusive. The ideal relationship should be one where both partners are equal and neither has authority over the other.
Many Catholic marriages I have known in my life, including all my pre-Vatican II relatives, were like this, just naturally. The women in my immediate and extended family were definitely not the subservient type.

Some couples, including some non-Catholics and non-believers I’ve known, prefer to set up their marriage so one spouse or the other has more authority. It wouldn’t be my preference, but if it works for them and they are both mutually okay with it, and no toxicity evident, it’s their choice to make, not mine.
 
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It’s both our jobs to help the other spouse get to Heaven.
This is what I was taught by my Catholic mother.
Equals, as the Catechism says.
 
I don’t think submitting to authority in general reduces dignity. But marriage is a different situation. I suppose it depends on what you mean by submission. In this context I’m thinking of a situation where the husband simply makes all the decisions and has the final say on everything. This seems like a very simplistic and inflexible approach to marriage. Does it also mean the husband gets his way even when he’s clearly wrong? Does it extend to sex? If the husband says now, is the wife obliged to submit to his authority. Certainly that would offend against her dignity.

There are two authorities in marriage, because there are two intelligent, reasoning, feeling beings in a marriage. I don’t view marriage as a “power” relationship and I really think that people who focus a lot on this are missing the point of marriage.

Out of curiosity, in what ways do you think a wife should submit to her husband? This conversation has been had many times on CAF but I can’t recall anyone actually explaining what this submission is supposed to look like on a daily basis.
 
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Many Catholic marriages I have known in my life, including all my pre-Vatican II relatives, were like this, just naturally. The women in my immediate and extended family were definitely not the subservient type.
I actually think that throughout history, in many places, the trope of the submissive wife was not really a thing. In Ireland we have a joke about the “Irish mammy” it’s kind of a stereotype about Irish women in general as being quite opinionated and domineering. I think the dynamic of Irish families in the past, and still to this day was normally that the mother had the authority and the father provided. For me the whole obsession with submission is quite protestant.
 
Immediately prior to saying “wives be submissive to your husband…” St. Paul tells his readers, “Be submissive to one another out of reverence for Christ. Wives to your husbands as to the Lord…” The woman’s submissiveness is only within the context of the mutual submissiveness of spouses to one another.
This is a faulty interpretation. There is no circumstance in which Christ places himself under the authority of the Church. The Church however is subject to Christ in all things.

Thankfully we also have 1 Peter 3:1-6 to further clarify Paul’s advice.
 
The military gives an excellent example of how good leadership works. I remember the first time we got hot chow during a field op. The CO, the XO, and the First Sergeant, were serving us all while the junior enlisted were eating first. The symbolism drove home a point. Our leadership had 2 tasks. Mission accomplishment and taking care of those under their charge. Husbands and fathers have the same job.
 
Exact same situation here with mostly the same Irish culture. A couple of the Irish Catholic uncles married German Catholic wives. They weren’t exactly shrinking violets either.

It’s important to note, though, that all these women also taught their daughters, including me, that a man and his masculinity were to be respected. That doesn’t mean you follow his orders, but you also don’t make him look bad or weak in front of others, because that’s not the right way to treat a man you love. You give him support. I think a lot of women kind of learn to do this naturally, the same way a lot of men naturally learn “Happy wife, happy life,” or their father or grandfather teaches them that.

And I also agree the “submissive” stuff seems very Protestant Evangelical.
 
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Yes but there’s no line in marriage between using your authority well vs unwisely or badly. If the wife’s duty is to submit as in a military organisation then where can she express her will/wisdom.

It simply doesn’t work like this in a real marriage though. Generally people will naturally fall into roles and some decisions will be made by both and some decisions are best left to one or the other spouse. And what if he is a fool? Maybe he’s extremely unwise with money or is easily fooled by cunning salesmen? And doesn’t listen to his wife’s advice. It seems like it doesn’t take much for a “submission based” model of marriage to fall apart.

That’s not very specific.
 
It is worth noting that plenty of Protestant Churches are on board with the “mutual submission” “servant leadership” and complementarian models of marriage.
 
The Church teaches that you must submit to “just laws”. If a law is unjust then we are not morally bound to obey it.

You talked about female saints earlier. Many female saints were not the submissive type. St. Agnes actively went against her father’s wishes to dedicate herself to God. St. Catherine of Siena disobeyed her parents wishes to marry and cloistered herself away until she could become a Dominican.

I feel that the whole submission thing is based on a very thin understanding of Catholic theology and selective quoting of scripture.

The catechism, as a summary of Catholic teaching specifically discusses the married couple as equals and partners.
 
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